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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    4 set~ When you use 3 HP you have a 40% chance to proc a free Divine storm and causes all targets hit to burn in righteous fire for 150% of the damage delt over 4 seconds.
    That's a bit too much, imho.

    They don't have to make another tier set better than the previous one.. they will just simply new the last, making the new one prio...
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    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  2. #42
    Mechagnome Thete's Avatar
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    End of the day, I understand that the way things are at the start of PTR is not as they will be at the end. That being said, were this to be the actual 4-set bonus, it would mean only using 4 pieces for AoE heavy fights (and I mean heavy) and taking only 2 tier pieces for other fights. Hope we can mount in the new raid instance because we're going to need the reforge mount a fair bit.

  3. #43
    I almost feel like we may be like warriors were this teir, but opposite. Using new 4pce for AoE fights, and old 4 pce for others.

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  4. #44
    Don't know about you guys but I'm having fun with the T15 4 set bonus. So I expect that maybe Blizzard intends to integrate the 4 set maybe? It's been done before countless times. So maybe the T16 4 set is intended primarily for AOE, as our single target won't drop by much if at all?

    Otherwise you ignore the procs during single target rotation, unless everything is on cool down and then you hit the DS proc. This might mean that the new raid will focus on AOE a lot. If not then I see a lot of Rets running around with the T15 4 set for a long time.

  5. #45
    Mechagnome Thete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Don't know about you guys but I'm having fun with the T15 4 set bonus. So I expect that maybe Blizzard intends to integrate the 4 set maybe? It's been done before countless times. So maybe the T16 4 set is intended primarily for AOE, as our single target won't drop by much if at all?

    Otherwise you ignore the procs during single target rotation, unless everything is on cool down and then you hit the DS proc. This might mean that the new raid will focus on AOE a lot. If not then I see a lot of Rets running around with the T15 4 set for a long time.
    I would say that by the time you're in a position to have access to 4 set tier 16, you wouldn't want to use 4 set tier 15 even on single target fights. You'd do better taking the superior non-tier pieces even without set bonuses.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Thete View Post
    I would say that by the time you're in a position to have access to 4 set tier 16, you wouldn't want to use 4 set tier 15 even on single target fights. You'd do better taking the superior non-tier pieces even without set bonuses.
    Highly doubt that. Let's look at a single-target parse of mine and analyze how much of an increase it really is:
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-yn...9/?s=586&e=914
    Nothing special, just a normal Megaera. 50% of my TVs were holy. I'll be low-balling every estimate and giving every advantage to no T15 4-set (just 2-set). Without the 4-set, I would've done at LEAST 4,580,035 less damage - and that's a low estimate not including any external multipliers, only with 37% mastery + inquisition rounded down to an effective 48% mastery. With a damage total of 52,728,713, the total damage the 4-set does at LEAST is 8.68%, the actual increase is even HIGHER at 9.53%. The new T16 4-set doesn't even compare in single-target due to potential clashes and basically no free GCDs anymore. Sure it does more than Judgment, but not by that much.

    On the other hand, just from looking at the T16 4-set bonus itself, coupled with Divine Purpose, it would be a comparative increase for AOE fights like T15 4-set is for single-target right now - which makes me hope that if they stick with this set bonus that they have a good reason to do so, like there being very few single-target fights throughout T16. That's the only time I would accept the current T16 4-set as it is.

  7. #47
    The Patient Taiknee's Avatar
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    Really all they need to do is change:

    Paladin T16 Retribution 4P Bonus (New) Holy Power consumers have a 25% chance to make your next Divine Storm free.
    to

    Paladin T16 Retribution 4P Bonus (New) Holy Power consumers have a 25% chance to make your next Divine Storm free and a critical strike, however this Divine Storm may only affect one target.
    Then it should be pretty close to a Templar's Verdict (non-crit)

  8. #48
    Stood in the Fire Rheckameohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taiknee View Post
    Paladin T16 Retribution 4P Bonus (New) Holy Power consumers have a 25% chance to make your next Divine Storm free and a critical strike, however this Divine Storm may only affect one target.
    Then it should be pretty close to a Templar's Verdict (non-crit)
    Or they could, you know, make it proc a free guaranteed-crit TV.

    I dunno, the 4PC bonus is garbage, and it's probably a placeholder as well. I like the idea that someone had of TV and DS passively casting a free DS, but I can see some situations where that might be a little more harmful than good. Not in this tier of course, but y'know.

    Why can't they just have TV, DS, and Inq proc a free HoW? That sounds so much nicer.
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  9. #49
    By the way,

    Do you think that 2/5 will stack? DDDDD
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  10. #50
    I assuming you're asking if t15 2pc and t16 2pc will stack? I would assume so. The t15 2pc is a debuff, t16 2pc - I believe - is a self-buff.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeoniel View Post
    I assuming you're asking if t15 2pc and t16 2pc will stack? I would assume so. The t15 2pc is a debuff, t16 2pc - I believe - is a self-buff.
    no, he's asking that if we were to cast 2 exorcisms right after each other due to AoW, if the 2P would stack to 10%.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone View Post
    no, he's asking that if we were to cast 2 exorcisms right after each other due to AoW, if the 2P would stack to 10%.
    You can't control the T16 2-piece at all. It's every time Art of War procs, not when you actually cast Exorcism. Completely passive.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    You can't control the T16 2-piece at all. It's every time Art of War procs, not when you actually cast Exorcism. Completely passive.
    well, if we get 2 AoW procs within 5 seconds then.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  14. #54
    Pretty sure it just overwrites the existing buff.
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  15. #55
    yeah, would be to op
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  16. #56
    If anybody thinks DS will be anything but a "Filler" when everything is on CD. They're silly. It's pointless to theorycraft any other way it's not a dps increase over the current rotation.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Ritthepally View Post
    If anybody thinks DS will be anything but a "Filler" when everything is on CD. They're silly. It's pointless to theorycraft any other way it's not a dps increase over the current rotation.
    actually, in theory it could be a DPS increase because we would have something to do during empty GCDs, like I currently do with SS. however, depending on the encounter and your gear, you're likely to not have many free GCDs where the proc is active.

    we have 30.5 seconds worth of waiting during a 10 minute encounter. that's 3 gcds per minute. we need 4 gcds per finisher and have 60 gcds per minute (assuming everything is hasted), minus 3, so 14 finishers per minute. at a 25% proc rate, we'll have 3.5 procs per minute. so we'll waste 1/6 of our procs as it is, not accounting for situations where we use a multiple sequence of generators and finishers or where we get multiple free gcds after each other, which both increase our proc wasting.

    if we assume we use 3 procs per minute with 50% mastery, we'll get 3*(100*1.5)*1.3 or 585% weapon damage per minute. that's less than 2 additional templar's verdicts, assuming 195% weapon damage after armor without mastery. meanwhile, our current 4P gives us ((275*1.5*1.5)-322),214% bonus damage, at 8 procs per minute, for a total of 1714% weapon damage per minute bonus. so we're getting 1/3 of the value of our current 4P, assuming optimal use for both.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone View Post
    actually, in theory it could be a DPS increase because we would have something to do during empty GCDs, like I currently do with SS. however, depending on the encounter and your gear, you're likely to not have many free GCDs where the proc is active.

    we have 30.5 seconds worth of waiting during a 10 minute encounter. that's 3 gcds per minute. we need 4 gcds per finisher and have 60 gcds per minute (assuming everything is hasted), minus 3, so 14 finishers per minute. at a 25% proc rate, we'll have 3.5 procs per minute. so we'll waste 1/6 of our procs as it is, not accounting for situations where we use a multiple sequence of generators and finishers or where we get multiple free gcds after each other, which both increase our proc wasting.

    if we assume we use 3 procs per minute with 50% mastery, we'll get 3*(100*1.5)*1.3 or 585% weapon damage per minute. that's less than 2 additional templar's verdicts, assuming 195% weapon damage after armor without mastery. meanwhile, our current 4P gives us ((275*1.5*1.5)-322),214% bonus damage, at 8 procs per minute, for a total of 1714% weapon damage per minute bonus. so we're getting 1/3 of the value of our current 4P, assuming optimal use for both.
    I didn't check the math on that, as I CBA to right now at work. And ret is my OS, so it's not of the utmost importance to me. BUT. I would encourage/ask you to double-check those numbers, then post that in the PTR forum set bonus/feedback thread, since it highlights well how underwhelming this bonus is on paper and in practice.

    Unless we have small adds running around on every fight to take advantage of the DS's, this 4pc is basically a way to get "MOAR SPINNY HAMMARZ" that the blues seem to think we want, while simultaneously removing a very cool and fun 4pc that we ahve currently.
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  19. #59
    Pandaren Monk
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    Don't know if anyone saw the change, but now the DS proc is also 50% more damage.
    I would still like it to give a charge of holy power if possible, though. Going to feel odd now using a global and not getting/using HPower.

  20. #60
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    If they make it so you can consume the charge for DS or TV I wouldn't mind it, I just don't want to see another button added to my single-target rotation.
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