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  1. #1

    WoW, a journey. Now, I feel nothing anymore

    Hello!
    To start with english is my third language so excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes.
    Some of you might know me as a troll or a guy who likes to bitch a lot on the forums. I've just started broadcasting live on twitch and many subjects that come to my head from the viewers and the people I talk to on skype every day and who play with in general is: "What happened to WoW, and how do we fix it?"


    Most responses I will get here will be "there is nothing to fix", "the game evolved for the better", and "shut up elitist". I can take it, I read every PM I'm sent on twitch, I read every post thats posted in my threads here and on other forums. I'm willing to discuss this topic and not go overboard and call people bad names. I had a long rant about this, had a discussion with a friend of mine on skype on live stream. Here I'll summarize whats on my mind right now.

    In cataclysm, WoW started to decline. This was in the 4.1 patch, the patch I like to call "the welfare patch". T11 was nerfed, epics were once again in 5 man heroics. Tier 11 was the best thing I ever experienced since WOLK. It was better than Ulduar which is considered by most raiders the best raid ever made. Tier 11 had everything, challenging heroics, epic gear for the raiders, THREE instances in ONE TIER! It was jawdropping, it was amazing. I finally fell in love with the game again. I though to myself, WoW is finally good again. No more free epics and welfare handholding.


    I was wrong. I was terribly terribly wrong. Patch 4.1, everyone and their dog were in full epic gear. Welfare badge gear, welfare 353 epics... I guess Blizzard got enough whining from the bad players and decided to bend over and screw the game royally. All though they did not nerf heroic raiding which would have been the last straw for me. Normals were nerfed however, I was merely annoyed by this, not flip table annoyed though.


    Lets move forward to 4.3 - the patch that almost killed the game. Deathwing, the boss everyone had waited for. A disaster. The most retarded endboss fight I have ever seen (blizzard thought long and hard about this one). Nerfing the "raid" even more made this tier more abysmal than it already was. 10% was enough! Then we have LFR... Blizzard justified this feature as a way for lesser players to see content, which is fine in a manner of how much you butcher the encounters, removing core mechanics like on Dark Animus adds, Twin Consort healing. If these people are gonna some time get into normal modes, why not make LFR just like normal?

    You wanna see the content? Its there! We have normal mode just for you casuals! Go and get it. But no... it appears doing normal modes are hard (which they are not) they are very easy by the way... I clear it with pugs every week 12/12 on my alt.


    Now the way I used to feel about WoW is dwindling. Its fading away... the fantasy world which defined my teen years are becoming nothing but a cash cow. Blizzard are catering to the wrong people. Make the terrible players LEARN, not just give everything to them for free. Give them a GOAL. Normal raiding should be what LFR is now.


    /rant over

    Will also make commentary video about this tomorrow on live stream.

  2. #2
    4.0 was a pretty drastic change from 'business as usual' in Wrath, yes.

    The problem is that Blizzard does not seem to want to be content with a small, but fantastically loyal, playerbase. 4.0 seemed to shoot for this, but then a great many "cruise control" players complained. Loudly. With their dollars. So, they went back to trying to "please everyone" and have a much larger playerbase.

    I honestly think that the developers want to design a game with a challenge... but I believe the shareholders and Powers That Be have far more sway over them, and when push came to shove, they buckled.

    5.0 represents something of a return to offering challenge, but they are more reserved about it, more careful. They're more clearly defining where challenge lies, in terms of Challenge Mode dungeons, Heroic raids, and Heroic scenarios. Which is fine. I think there can be a happy medium where the average player can excel at an average rate... and the more devoted player can get greater rewards, or be rewarded much more quickly.

    How this will continue into 6.0, remains to be seen...

  3. #3
    Dreadlord Baine's Avatar
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    Sorry you feel this way but this thread does not bring something new. Why the hell do you care if others enjoy the game by doing LFR? Blizzard's goal is to offer content for all the game's playstyles, wether hardcore (heroic raids, challenge mode, brawler's guild etc.) or casual (dailies, scenarios, LFR). Don't imagine subs would go high if they were gating the content by increasing the difficulty level.

  4. #4
    What I can never seem to understand is this mentality that other players getting something in game takes anything at all away from you. The only people who ever cared about what you accomplished in game were you and perhaps your close friends. The fields of casuals who get LFR gear now never gave 1 crap in the past that you have heroic raid gear. So why isn't the reverse true? Why is it so important to you that you get to see content that others can't? You're ilvl is significantly higher than them. As a result, you're DPS/tanking/healing ability is significantly greater. Isn't that what matters as far as stroking your ego goes? Nothing has changed except the color of gear that some people have. You're still way more geared then them. Is it really so important that everyone's gear is blue except for a few people? Why can't the fact that you're 33 ilvls higher be enough? The difference in your characters potential is as great if not greater than it was before Cata.

    I just will never understand. Are people really so self-absorbed that they care that much about looking superior to everyone else? Cosmetically? Go into a heroic dungeon and link your DPS to all those scrubs if you need an ego stroke. No one cares whether your gear is epic or rare but you.

  5. #5
    I posted this in an other thread:

    When I leveled my first char I made atleast 10 friends from 1-60. Not to mention all the people I grouped with. And I am not even that social. When I leveled in Cataclysm the only ones I had on my friends list were IRL friends. I even hardly saw anyone. People just wait in their cities for the next queue. And leveling has been simplified to the point where a 10 year old kid won't need help from anyone, just so he can play singleplayer.

    It used to be an open word, that gave the feeling of a real world. Now it's a singleplayer game with lots of minigames. I guess it could still be called MMO, but the essence of what made WoW so great (the open world and server community) has been lost. Blizzard knows this, and every change since 3.0 was a step in this direction. Just so that "casuals" (aka antisocial bads and 10yr old kids) could enjoy their single player game.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord Baine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiegoBrando View Post
    Just so that "casuals" (aka antisocial bads and 10yr old kids) could enjoy their single player game.
    It is an 10yr old kid answer so wrong at many levels: assuming casuals only enjoy solo content; that they are antisocial or kiddies.
    But I agree on one point. They should put more emphasis on collective playing than single player. They are trying in 5.3. with the Barrens event where you have to get down some elite mobs. But the whole event feels a bit short. But that's an interesting change from dailies.

  7. #7
    Lucky us. Another histrionic op-ed where people use illuminating terms like "bads" and "kids"...

    Newsflash: If you use those terms, you likely fit the bill of what you are describing - or worse yet, you likely fit the bill of a social miscreant who can't help himself but to judge everything. The true mark of an immature brat.

    Here's a tip - WoW is an opt-in deal. You aren't forced to play. In life, shit comes and goes and you won't be playing the same game forever. Things change. Move on because we will all be better for it.

    No, no don't wanna be a hipster but a big star
    And I wanna see my name tattooed where your tits are

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    Hello!
    To start with english is my third language so excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes.
    Some of you might know me as a troll or a guy who likes to bitch a lot on the forums. I've just started broadcasting live on twitch and many subjects that come to my head from the viewers and the people I talk to on skype every day and who play with in general is: "What happened to WoW, and how do we fix it?"


    Most responses I will get here will be "there is nothing to fix", "the game evolved for the better", and "shut up elitist". I can take it, I read every PM I'm sent on twitch, I read every post thats posted in my threads here and on other forums. I'm willing to discuss this topic and not go overboard and call people bad names. I had a long rant about this, had a discussion with a friend of mine on skype on live stream. Here I'll summarize whats on my mind right now.

    In cataclysm, WoW started to decline. This was in the 4.1 patch, the patch I like to call "the welfare patch". T11 was nerfed, epics were once again in 5 man heroics. Tier 11 was the best thing I ever experienced since WOLK. It was better than Ulduar which is considered by most raiders the best raid ever made. Tier 11 had everything, challenging heroics, epic gear for the raiders, THREE instances in ONE TIER! It was jawdropping, it was amazing. I finally fell in love with the game again. I though to myself, WoW is finally good again. No more free epics and welfare handholding.


    I was wrong. I was terribly terribly wrong. Patch 4.1, everyone and their dog were in full epic gear. Welfare badge gear, welfare 353 epics... I guess Blizzard got enough whining from the bad players and decided to bend over and screw the game royally. All though they did not nerf heroic raiding which would have been the last straw for me. Normals were nerfed however, I was merely annoyed by this, not flip table annoyed though.


    Lets move forward to 4.3 - the patch that almost killed the game. Deathwing, the boss everyone had waited for. A disaster. The most retarded endboss fight I have ever seen (blizzard thought long and hard about this one). Nerfing the "raid" even more made this tier more abysmal than it already was. 10% was enough! Then we have LFR... Blizzard justified this feature as a way for lesser players to see content, which is fine in a manner of how much you butcher the encounters, removing core mechanics like on Dark Animus adds, Twin Consort healing. If these people are gonna some time get into normal modes, why not make LFR just like normal?

    You wanna see the content? Its there! We have normal mode just for you casuals! Go and get it. But no... it appears doing normal modes are hard (which they are not) they are very easy by the way... I clear it with pugs every week 12/12 on my alt.


    Now the way I used to feel about WoW is dwindling. Its fading away... the fantasy world which defined my teen years are becoming nothing but a cash cow. Blizzard are catering to the wrong people. Make the terrible players LEARN, not just give everything to them for free. Give them a GOAL. Normal raiding should be what LFR is now.


    /rant over

    Will also make commentary video about this tomorrow on live stream.
    You are absolutely correct. That is all.

  9. #9
    Retired raider here, World top 30 in tbc, US top 5 in most of TBC/Wrath, went casual but beat all content on heroic in Cata while they were relevant and without external buffs (Deathwing might be with 5%, it's been a while). Quit the game because Dragon Soul was a huge disappointment, and that I can't really maintain a balance between raiding "casual-core" (raiding ~9 hours a week while still beating relevant content on time). I had a overall positive experience with the game even when I decided to quit.

    The only thing I can agree with you is that Dragon Soul is a terrible raiding instance. Everything else about your complain is about other people seeing the content without going on Youtube. The way this post was constructed almost feels like a troll to me, as there were only blunt complains and attacks on "casual seeing the game".

    Its fading away... the fantasy world which defined my teen years are becoming nothing but a cash cow
    I guess not everyone mature with age.
    Last edited by david0925; 2013-06-12 at 01:15 AM.

  10. #10
    Never felt like WoW was a journey to me. Even when I was progressing in Vanilla Naxx.

    MC was easy welfare epics by that point. Everyone was running around in them. Nothings really changed. People just run LFR now for bad gear instead of clearing old raids that were really easy to do tiers later for gear that's also bad at that point.

    Same shit, different day.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    In cataclysm, WoW started to decline. This was in the 4.1 patch, the patch I like to call "the welfare patch". T11 was nerfed, epics were once again in 5 man heroics. Tier 11 was the best thing I ever experienced since WOLK. It was better than Ulduar which is considered by most raiders the best raid ever made. Tier 11 had everything, challenging heroics, epic gear for the raiders, THREE instances in ONE TIER! It was jawdropping, it was amazing. I finally fell in love with the game again. I though to myself, WoW is finally good again. No more free epics and welfare handholding.
    I wonder why people pretend to forget TBC, which introduced "welfare epics".
    You wanna see the content? Its there! We have normal mode just for you casuals! Go and get it. But no... it appears doing normal modes are hard (which they are not) they are very easy by the way... I clear it with pugs every week 12/12 on my alt.
    Overtuned normal raids are one of the reasons for dying servers. We all thought that t11 would ring a bell (which also was massively overtuned, but it was lampshaded by introduction of shared lockouts, which demolished over 95% of 25-men guilds), but no. And pugging 12/12 is completely out of reality of most servers.

    Edit: It is just another LFR-hating thread.......

  12. #12
    I think the only thing I agree with in that whole post is that T11 was the best tier we had since Ulduar.

  13. #13
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    What I can never seem to understand is this mentality that other players getting something in game takes anything at all away from you. The only people who ever cared about what you accomplished in game were you and perhaps your close friends. The fields of casuals who get LFR gear now never gave 1 crap in the past that you have heroic raid gear. So why isn't the reverse true? Why is it so important to you that you get to see content that others can't? You're ilvl is significantly higher than them. As a result, you're DPS/tanking/healing ability is significantly greater. Isn't that what matters as far as stroking your ego goes? Nothing has changed except the color of gear that some people have. You're still way more geared then them. Is it really so important that everyone's gear is blue except for a few people? Why can't the fact that you're 33 ilvls higher be enough? The difference in your characters potential is as great if not greater than it was before Cata.

    I just will never understand. Are people really so self-absorbed that they care that much about looking superior to everyone else? Cosmetically? Go into a heroic dungeon and link your DPS to all those scrubs if you need an ego stroke. No one cares whether your gear is epic or rare but you.
    This /signed

  14. #14
    Your title and your point is misleading.

    Since when does whether or not people around you get epics/tier equate to a "Journey." Your just finding something old to whine about now.

    Nefarion was hard, so was Chimeron, Most Fireland bosses and anyone who managed to get a few epics earned them. If you want something no one else has go do heroic level dungeons but leave LFR and LFD out of it.

  15. #15
    Dreadlord Ibbi's Avatar
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    When you play the game for yourself and yourself only, it's going to be a mediocre experience. But if you spend time making friends and hanging out with them in-game and/or over vent, it brings a lasting satisfaction.

    This is why WoW people generally say good things about vanilla or TBC, because back then making friends was necessary to get anywhere worthwhile at end game.
    DISCLAIMER: Reader discretion advised. The above post is entirely fictional and purely for entertainment purposes only. Any similarities to real life events, animals, humans, persons, politicians, or any other form of entity, living, dead or in any other state of existence, is purely coincidental. The author cannot and will not be held accountable for such similarities or any other parallels that are imagined and/or drawn by you, the reader, between the above fictional work and real life events.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baine View Post
    Sorry you feel this way but this thread does not bring something new. Why the hell do you care if others enjoy the game by doing LFR? Blizzard's goal is to offer content for all the game's playstyles, wether hardcore (heroic raids, challenge mode, brawler's guild etc.) or casual (dailies, scenarios, LFR). Don't imagine subs would go high if they were gating the content by increasing the difficulty level.
    because people are playing leveling up fast gearing up fast clearing curent content fast and then unsubbing because they have clear all the content the game has to offer and its easy to do so and no comitment is neededd there for making it extremely hard for guilds to recruit more players. there for dimishing the normal/hc raiding comunity

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    because people are playing leveling up fast gearing up fast clearing curent content fast and then unsubbing because they have clear all the content the game has to offer and its easy to do so and no comitment is neededd there for making it extremely hard for guilds to recruit more players. there for dimishing the normal/hc raiding comunity
    The majority of the people that run LFR were the same people that were never going to raid before.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ibbi View Post
    When you play the game for yourself and yourself only, it's going to be a mediocre experience. But if you spend time making friends and hanging out with them in-game and/or over vent, it brings a lasting satisfaction.

    This is why WoW people generally say good things about vanilla or TBC, because back then making friends was necessary to get anywhere worthwhile at end game.
    Making friends should be through choice, not through necessity.
    I would argue that was more mutually beneficial alliances than friends.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    The majority of the people that run LFR were the same people that were never going to raid before.
    true, but the problem with lfr is the following

    its so easy that you dont need to try
    you dont need to learn what ur spells do
    you dont even need to do any dmg to the boss to get loot
    once you get lei shen down you've cleared all the "content" the game has to offer

    theres no incentive to get better or to even advance into normal mode raiding coz lfr is easy you can do literlery noting and get loot and theres no comitment required to do lfr

  20. #20
    Having played many MMOs for long periods of time, I can safely say that I have come up with a rough mathematical formula...

    As an MMO moves further away from its initial release date, the number of "The good old days were better" sentiments grows at a steady rate as a portion of the population.

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