Take gearscore and similar addons appearing before LFD.
The decision to accept or reject people without the need to interact with them at all.
How is that not acting like a total asshat ?
LFR gets more people into raiding, it increases the pool of players who could potentially move to normal difficulty.
It has no negative impact on the hardcore, because it gives them more people to recruit not less.
They are simply whining because they are no longer special, they are no longer the primary audience for the "big" end-game content of the game.
IF LFR was seeing all the content, then why would anyone raid normal or heroic.
Because LFR is NOT all the content, it is only a fraction of the experience.
One where many people would love to progress from, but are simply prevented from doing so by an arrogant community who dictates themselves to be superior, when their behaviour is proving themselves to be anything but.
If you want to be special, then go about improving the community.
Go talk to those in LFR, ask why they are struggling.
Ask them about what keeps them there.
YOU be the reason they want to move out of there.
A good player and a skilled player are not the same thing.
A good player is someone you can look up to for more than their achievement points.
Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2013-06-16 at 03:07 PM.
LFR isn't broken. LFR is pretty much the best thing to happen to the WoW community. As someone who used to do hardcore raids, I can say that LFR has completely and totally killed any desire that I have to be shackled to a raiding guild. Giving people content without guilds is bad for raiding guilds because they're no longer mandatory to have some sort of character progression, but it's great for the players because they don't have to deal with abusive guilds that attempt to force them to play X nights per week and guilt them when they can't show up.
The problem with LFR has been diagnosed many times. I am not sure there is a fix besides removing it all together.
"If I recall correctly I just posted that this topic is not to be discussed any further." -Ensidia Fanclub Founder
Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
Trolling should be.
OT: I cannot think of a better way than OP's idea to make LFR worse than it already is. Honestly, "Hey I don't like your name!" *Remove from raid* "I'm gonna set it to master looter! LOL Tanks get cloth!" "lol watch this!" *Kicks tank as tank pulls boss, group wipes. Rinse/repeat*
Oh and rankings do nothing. Do you honestly think trolls care what other people think of them? A ranking system is supposed to act as public shaming for the people that are shit. Trolls really don't care.
OP considered and rejected.
Edit: Not to mention that OP's whole argument is based on a false premise, that LFR is broken. It isn't. Get over it. People who are lousy at the game/have rl stuff/whatever can now get a weaker recolor of a piece of gear that you have from "actual raiding," whatever that means. I really don't think that you have anything to fear from some dude walking around with the same gear as you with 20-40 ilvls knocked off it. Go complain about something else.
Last edited by Lachez; 2013-06-16 at 03:29 PM.
Lachez Prot/DPS Warrior
[A] Sargeras -US
Simple solution to fix LFR... not sure if it's been suggested yet..
LFR and FR share a loot lock-out.
Means less times running content so less burn-out. Higher ilvl for FR means less will use LFR and tend to Pug FR instead.
LFR stays for those that have no other opportunity.
basically LFR is a good tool for people that otherwise wouldn't get to raid but then it removes the incentive to pug groups. FR / LFR shared lock-out would encourage it.
And well steadily on my realm more and more raiding guilds are dying off. So clearly more people are saying "I do not care about normal or heroic, I get content clear by doing LFR". And when I look at the guild rankings on my realm I can tell you one thing over 75% of the guilds who do normal mode will have seen the final boss in LFR before they reach him in normal mode.
LFR has never been a good way to see content, it was designed for the people that otherwise wouldn't raid and perhaps unsub which is great for the casual. LFR is bad (imo) because it doesn't encourage a player to do better, and after several tiers of content it doesn't shape a player into a seasoned raider... a raider should feel like this when he is facing the super villian of the expac.
FLEX will fix the gap that became fairly successful in TBC and Wotlk which was the PuG raid that started in /general or /trade... if Flex opens this up again it could be a good way to promote community spirit on a server. I actually don't believe it will work for the player it was intended for, it will just encourage guild struggling with normal modes to collapse into Flex rather than disband.
The random nature of LFR makes the Raid leader idea insanely stupid when you think about it.
Raid leaders for guilds and organized raids work because the leader has something at stake. Their reputation, if they ninja, if they make poor decisions or lead the group badly, they're going to pay for it in a light but meaningful way. And it's almost NEVER worth it, or they have to pay to get off the realm or work to repair the damage.
LFR. And this is why it's inherently flawed. Has an anonymous dickwad barrier in place. So it needs to be idiot/dickwad proof. There can be no organization. There can be no comradary, or friendly behavior bar one or two who dare crack a joke once in a blue moon. Because there can be none of that 'leadership under one person', everyone is the leader, everyone is suspicious or mistrustful of others. The most power you're given is to purposely screw up the raid or not. And the raid is given the power to remove you. Nothing more. The tanks perhaps have a bit more power but you can just about reign that in by refusing to pander to it as a group.
And that is why the raid system is the way it is, because even when we had a little bit more power over loot in dragon soul. People found ways to abuse it to their advantage by employing friends.
For flex raiding, I'd like to see this be able to be switched off and on. I don't like the nature of slot machine loot. I like looting a boss and there being a random bit of loot on it and you either roll or discuss who it would benefit more. It worked when I did it in Wrath with my casual groups, it'll work fine now. And some flex raid organizers will florish and others will be condemned by their peers, and people will LEARN about raiding. Because there is too much disconnect between LFRers and Normal/Heroic Raiders at the moment. Flex needs to meet something half way difficulty and process wise.
To be blunt: There's a reason why Blizzard is in charge of these things, and not you. They have numbers you do not have. You can make up as much theoretical statements as you want, but at the end of the day, that's all they are, theories. You do not see the numbers Blizzard does. You do not have access to the statistics Blizzard does.
Believe it or not, Blizzard knows the game better than you do. If LFR was causing mass subscriber loss and killing the game (like so many claim, and so many claimed about LFD), it would have been removed by now. But surprisingly, it's still here. That means that it must be doing something right, since Blizzard is clearly keeping it in the game.
Armchair developers hurt my head... how do people honestly think such terrible ideas are better?
Considering the history of wow I would rather claim that blizzard just try and see if it works while they tinker along.
Remember hard cata heroics-->omg massive nerf.
And now we get flex raids because woops when we removed 10 man normal mode as the sort of casual territory for social guilds, we removed their content, so lets try to fix that problem.
they've been tinkering along on PvP for years, adding resilience, nerfing abilities, adding pvp power, integrating resilience and so on and so on.
Also personally I think LFR is bad for the game, but unfortunatly it is a very succesfull loot pinata so blizzard is in the situation that it ends up being impossible to remove the bad loot pinata because it is popular. But well why wouldn't it be popular it is the equivalent of free beer.
Think of it this way marijuana is also popular but that doesn't mean that it is good.
Last edited by Dax75; 2013-06-16 at 04:26 PM.
So , you want to give the pricks lead so they can kick whomever they please , give no loot to who they think is no good enough (like people before the loot change needing on shit they don't need just so the 'low'dps wouldn't get it or the vault 'leaders'that didn't give loot if you didn't meet their requirements) and be overall dickheads ?
LFR is full of them allready , i for one am happy with them having no 'power' what so ever, giving them power would make LFR a really bad experience for the people it's aimed at. You might get one decent raidleader out of 99 LFR's all the others would be the trolls you want to see kicked but suprise , you can't because they have lead.
Last edited by Bubalus; 2013-06-16 at 04:36 PM.
But you are quite right with struggling normal mode guilds going down to flex, I see that as a natural development come 5.4 but that is just how it is.
So in Q waiting for another role to be filled? BRILLIANT. Hand out loot? No I like the bags. There is ZERO need for this, as such it will never happen.
Flex raids are normal raids with an odd number, they already have a leader.
READ and be less Ignorant.
THIS is a prime example of the sort of attitude that should be more predominant in our community. I agree wholeheartedly.
Also, little if any of the complaining is from actual heroic raiders, which make up a teensy weensy portion of the game population and are, generally speaking, too busy wiping hundreds of time on bosses to come whine on forums about LFR, which they use also in some cases for gear gaps and preliminary activity to progression and on their alts.