Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
7
LastLast
  1. #81
    Herald of the Titans rederoin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Europa.
    Posts
    2,929
    Quote Originally Posted by DrSteveBrule View Post
    So far I've yet to see one LFR hugger agree that the rewards for Heroic/Normal are just not attractive enough for their effort.

    Too much emphasis is being put on Ilvl, a title and a mount.
    Ilvl is the worst because not only does it have little use outside of Raiding or Brawler's guild but of the three "rewards" it has the shortest life span. Until the next tier where Normals are only a handful of Ilvls off.

    Titles are titles, who gets excited for them, really?

    Mounts are great but half the time they're just recolors and let's be frank, recolors aren't one of those "I need it now!" kind of rewards.
    I don't mind waiting a tier to start facerolling the achievement mounts.
    Normal mode mount drops are RNG for Normal so I hardly count those as worthy of a reward for regular raiders either.
    Ilvl is all that matters to me.

    Blizzard can give hc raiders whatever rewards they feel like, as long as us non-raiders can also progress trough the game(with Ilvl's).
    If you don't care about Ilvl's. why does non-raiders getting high ilvl gear matter to you?

    Hellscream - EU<Altoholic Anonymous>
    "Most prime ministers are wet, but Balrick he is even moister" ~BlackAdder, Twitter.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by LeperHerring View Post
    And the community is shit because LFR took away accountability, reputation and the need to work as a team, allowing people to act like total asshats.
    The community did that themselves.
    Take gearscore and similar addons appearing before LFD.
    The decision to accept or reject people without the need to interact with them at all.
    How is that not acting like a total asshat ?

    LFR gets more people into raiding, it increases the pool of players who could potentially move to normal difficulty.
    It has no negative impact on the hardcore, because it gives them more people to recruit not less.

    They are simply whining because they are no longer special, they are no longer the primary audience for the "big" end-game content of the game.

    IF LFR was seeing all the content, then why would anyone raid normal or heroic.
    Because LFR is NOT all the content, it is only a fraction of the experience.
    One where many people would love to progress from, but are simply prevented from doing so by an arrogant community who dictates themselves to be superior, when their behaviour is proving themselves to be anything but.

    If you want to be special, then go about improving the community.
    Go talk to those in LFR, ask why they are struggling.
    Ask them about what keeps them there.

    YOU be the reason they want to move out of there.

    A good player and a skilled player are not the same thing.
    A good player is someone you can look up to for more than their achievement points.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2013-06-16 at 03:07 PM.

  3. #83
    Herald of the Titans RoKPaNda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,717
    LFR isn't broken. LFR is pretty much the best thing to happen to the WoW community. As someone who used to do hardcore raids, I can say that LFR has completely and totally killed any desire that I have to be shackled to a raiding guild. Giving people content without guilds is bad for raiding guilds because they're no longer mandatory to have some sort of character progression, but it's great for the players because they don't have to deal with abusive guilds that attempt to force them to play X nights per week and guilt them when they can't show up.

  4. #84
    Mechagnome Layuth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    578
    The problem with LFR has been diagnosed many times. I am not sure there is a fix besides removing it all together.

    "If I recall correctly I just posted that this topic is not to be discussed any further." -Ensidia Fanclub Founder

  5. #85
    Herald of the Titans rederoin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Europa.
    Posts
    2,929
    Quote Originally Posted by Layuth View Post
    The problem with LFR has been diagnosed many times. I am not sure there is a fix besides removing it all together.

    Does that picture talk about the hardcore raiders who complain about LFR? I'm a bit confused.

    Hellscream - EU<Altoholic Anonymous>
    "Most prime ministers are wet, but Balrick he is even moister" ~BlackAdder, Twitter.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Layuth View Post
    The problem with LFR has been diagnosed many times. I am not sure there is a fix besides removing it all together.
    Lobotomy would fix the wannabe-elitist 1% who think they're entitled to exclusivity. For the other 99% LFR is aimed for removing it would be the worst mistake in history of WoW development.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  7. #87
    The Patient Lachez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Wouldn't you like to know?
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by Dole4011 View Post
    To all the naysayers, don't you guys realize this is the solution to all of WoW's problems? It says so in the title.
    I know right? Now whenever anyone complains about pvp imbalance, we can just say "Hey look now, LFR has a real raid leader. Your problem is fixed."

    OT: I cannot think of a better way than OP's idea to make LFR worse than it already is. Honestly, "Hey I don't like your name!" *Remove from raid* "I'm gonna set it to master looter! LOL Tanks get cloth!" "lol watch this!" *Kicks tank as tank pulls boss, group wipes. Rinse/repeat*

    Oh and rankings do nothing. Do you honestly think trolls care what other people think of them? A ranking system is supposed to act as public shaming for the people that are shit. Trolls really don't care.

    OP considered and rejected.

    Edit: Not to mention that OP's whole argument is based on a false premise, that LFR is broken. It isn't. Get over it. People who are lousy at the game/have rl stuff/whatever can now get a weaker recolor of a piece of gear that you have from "actual raiding," whatever that means. I really don't think that you have anything to fear from some dude walking around with the same gear as you with 20-40 ilvls knocked off it. Go complain about something else.
    Last edited by Lachez; 2013-06-16 at 03:29 PM.
    Aelmagus
    <Delusions of Grandeur>
    [H] Runetotem - US


    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Oh, PVP twinks. I thought this was about Anduin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradewind View Post
    I am so triggered right now.

  8. #88
    Simple solution to fix LFR... not sure if it's been suggested yet..

    LFR and FR share a loot lock-out.
    Means less times running content so less burn-out. Higher ilvl for FR means less will use LFR and tend to Pug FR instead.
    LFR stays for those that have no other opportunity.

    basically LFR is a good tool for people that otherwise wouldn't get to raid but then it removes the incentive to pug groups. FR / LFR shared lock-out would encourage it.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    LFR gets more people into raiding, it increases the pool of players who could potentially move to normal difficulty.
    It has no negative impact on the hardcore, because it gives them more people to recruit not less.
    I asked someone if he wanted to do normal mode, but he said "well I am content clear i've seen it all in LFR, I do not care about normal mode next tiers LFR will have almost equally as good gear so why bother".

    And well steadily on my realm more and more raiding guilds are dying off. So clearly more people are saying "I do not care about normal or heroic, I get content clear by doing LFR". And when I look at the guild rankings on my realm I can tell you one thing over 75% of the guilds who do normal mode will have seen the final boss in LFR before they reach him in normal mode.

  10. #90
    Dreadlord Morbownz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Cheshire, UK
    Posts
    817
    LFR has never been a good way to see content, it was designed for the people that otherwise wouldn't raid and perhaps unsub which is great for the casual. LFR is bad (imo) because it doesn't encourage a player to do better, and after several tiers of content it doesn't shape a player into a seasoned raider... a raider should feel like this when he is facing the super villian of the expac.

    FLEX will fix the gap that became fairly successful in TBC and Wotlk which was the PuG raid that started in /general or /trade... if Flex opens this up again it could be a good way to promote community spirit on a server. I actually don't believe it will work for the player it was intended for, it will just encourage guild struggling with normal modes to collapse into Flex rather than disband.

  11. #91
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Under your bed
    Posts
    2,637
    The random nature of LFR makes the Raid leader idea insanely stupid when you think about it.

    Raid leaders for guilds and organized raids work because the leader has something at stake. Their reputation, if they ninja, if they make poor decisions or lead the group badly, they're going to pay for it in a light but meaningful way. And it's almost NEVER worth it, or they have to pay to get off the realm or work to repair the damage.

    LFR. And this is why it's inherently flawed. Has an anonymous dickwad barrier in place. So it needs to be idiot/dickwad proof. There can be no organization. There can be no comradary, or friendly behavior bar one or two who dare crack a joke once in a blue moon. Because there can be none of that 'leadership under one person', everyone is the leader, everyone is suspicious or mistrustful of others. The most power you're given is to purposely screw up the raid or not. And the raid is given the power to remove you. Nothing more. The tanks perhaps have a bit more power but you can just about reign that in by refusing to pander to it as a group.

    And that is why the raid system is the way it is, because even when we had a little bit more power over loot in dragon soul. People found ways to abuse it to their advantage by employing friends.

    For flex raiding, I'd like to see this be able to be switched off and on. I don't like the nature of slot machine loot. I like looting a boss and there being a random bit of loot on it and you either roll or discuss who it would benefit more. It worked when I did it in Wrath with my casual groups, it'll work fine now. And some flex raid organizers will florish and others will be condemned by their peers, and people will LEARN about raiding. Because there is too much disconnect between LFRers and Normal/Heroic Raiders at the moment. Flex needs to meet something half way difficulty and process wise.
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryva View Post
    Obviously if players get stuck in the leveling process this topic is not about them? Raiding content matters a lot and by making it more exclusive then now it gives players a goal, something to thrive for. It's basic psychology or just simple understanding of how the human mind works.

    Why don't we give all kids at school the best grades, no matter how much they learn? Blizzard created such a situation which shouldn't exist in video games and also not in the real world.
    No, actually. If you take away LFR, the people that are currently using it won't "Strive to better themselves and do Normal Mode Raiding", they'll simply quit the game at level 90 when they're unable to Raid for whatever reason.

    To be blunt: There's a reason why Blizzard is in charge of these things, and not you. They have numbers you do not have. You can make up as much theoretical statements as you want, but at the end of the day, that's all they are, theories. You do not see the numbers Blizzard does. You do not have access to the statistics Blizzard does.

    Believe it or not, Blizzard knows the game better than you do. If LFR was causing mass subscriber loss and killing the game (like so many claim, and so many claimed about LFD), it would have been removed by now. But surprisingly, it's still here. That means that it must be doing something right, since Blizzard is clearly keeping it in the game.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Bladesyphon View Post
    No, actually. If you take away LFR, the people that are currently using it won't "Strive to better themselves and do Normal Mode Raiding", they'll simply quit the game at level 90 when they're unable to Raid for whatever reason.

    To be blunt: There's a reason why Blizzard is in charge of these things, and not you. They have numbers you do not have. You can make up as much theoretical statements as you want, but at the end of the day, that's all they are, theories. You do not see the numbers Blizzard does. You do not have access to the statistics Blizzard does.

    Believe it or not, Blizzard knows the game better than you do. If LFR was causing mass subscriber loss and killing the game (like so many claim, and so many claimed about LFD), it would have been removed by now. But surprisingly, it's still here. That means that it must be doing something right, since Blizzard is clearly keeping it in the game.
    I don't know but aren't subscriptions down 1.3 mio the last quarter alone?

  14. #94
    Herald of the Titans rederoin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Europa.
    Posts
    2,929
    Quote Originally Posted by Dax75 View Post
    I don't know but aren't subscriptions down 1.3 mio the last quarter alone?
    How do you know thats related to LFR.

    Hellscream - EU<Altoholic Anonymous>
    "Most prime ministers are wet, but Balrick he is even moister" ~BlackAdder, Twitter.

  15. #95
    Bloodsail Admiral Huntardicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    South Wales, UK
    Posts
    1,111
    Armchair developers hurt my head... how do people honestly think such terrible ideas are better?

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by rederoin View Post
    How do you know thats related to LFR.
    I don't but I very much dislike argumentations that end up being blizzard knows best, they got the numbers they surely must know everything.
    Considering the history of wow I would rather claim that blizzard just try and see if it works while they tinker along.
    Remember hard cata heroics-->omg massive nerf.
    And now we get flex raids because woops when we removed 10 man normal mode as the sort of casual territory for social guilds, we removed their content, so lets try to fix that problem.
    they've been tinkering along on PvP for years, adding resilience, nerfing abilities, adding pvp power, integrating resilience and so on and so on.

    Also personally I think LFR is bad for the game, but unfortunatly it is a very succesfull loot pinata so blizzard is in the situation that it ends up being impossible to remove the bad loot pinata because it is popular. But well why wouldn't it be popular it is the equivalent of free beer.
    Think of it this way marijuana is also popular but that doesn't mean that it is good.
    Last edited by Dax75; 2013-06-16 at 04:26 PM.

  17. #97
    So , you want to give the pricks lead so they can kick whomever they please , give no loot to who they think is no good enough (like people before the loot change needing on shit they don't need just so the 'low'dps wouldn't get it or the vault 'leaders'that didn't give loot if you didn't meet their requirements) and be overall dickheads ?
    LFR is full of them allready , i for one am happy with them having no 'power' what so ever, giving them power would make LFR a really bad experience for the people it's aimed at. You might get one decent raidleader out of 99 LFR's all the others would be the trolls you want to see kicked but suprise , you can't because they have lead.
    Last edited by Bubalus; 2013-06-16 at 04:36 PM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Morbownz View Post
    LFR has never been a good way to see content, it was designed for the people that otherwise wouldn't raid and perhaps unsub which is great for the casual. LFR is bad (imo) because it doesn't encourage a player to do better, and after several tiers of content it doesn't shape a player into a seasoned raider... a raider should feel like this when he is facing the super villian of the expac.

    FLEX will fix the gap that became fairly successful in TBC and Wotlk which was the PuG raid that started in /general or /trade... if Flex opens this up again it could be a good way to promote community spirit on a server. I actually don't believe it will work for the player it was intended for, it will just encourage guild struggling with normal modes to collapse into Flex rather than disband.
    Yea well one of my friends came back for a week of free play time got his itemlevel up to ToT LFR entrance level, went in cleared it and he said ok well now I am content clear for this tier, maybe I will look in again around 5.4 or something see ya.

    But you are quite right with struggling normal mode guilds going down to flex, I see that as a natural development come 5.4 but that is just how it is.

  19. #99
    So in Q waiting for another role to be filled? BRILLIANT. Hand out loot? No I like the bags. There is ZERO need for this, as such it will never happen.

    Flex raids are normal raids with an odd number, they already have a leader.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    The community did that themselves.
    Take gearscore and similar addons appearing before LFD.
    The decision to accept or reject people without the need to interact with them at all.
    How is that not acting like a total asshat ?

    LFR gets more people into raiding, it increases the pool of players who could potentially move to normal difficulty.
    It has no negative impact on the hardcore, because it gives them more people to recruit not less.

    They are simply whining because they are no longer special, they are no longer the primary audience for the "big" end-game content of the game.

    IF LFR was seeing all the content, then why would anyone raid normal or heroic.
    Because LFR is NOT all the content, it is only a fraction of the experience.
    One where many people would love to progress from, but are simply prevented from doing so by an arrogant community who dictates themselves to be superior, when their behaviour is proving themselves to be anything but.

    If you want to be special, then go about improving the community.
    Go talk to those in LFR, ask why they are struggling.
    Ask them about what keeps them there.

    YOU be the reason they want to move out of there.

    A good player and a skilled player are not the same thing.
    A good player is someone you can look up to for more than their achievement points.

    THIS is a prime example of the sort of attitude that should be more predominant in our community. I agree wholeheartedly.

    Also, little if any of the complaining is from actual heroic raiders, which make up a teensy weensy portion of the game population and are, generally speaking, too busy wiping hundreds of time on bosses to come whine on forums about LFR, which they use also in some cases for gear gaps and preliminary activity to progression and on their alts.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •