Nazgrim

[delus]

I wonder what Eitrigg thinks of all this...

He probably feels a sharp pain in his side from where Nazgrim stabbed him for showing disapproval against the warchief.

[Zulkhan]

He probably feels a sharp pain in his side from where Malkorok stabbed him for showing disapproval against the warchief.

Fixed for you.

[hablix]

General Nazgrim as a boss is a great opportunity to highlight all the gray area in this whole situation. It's a bittersweet moment because we love Nazgrim for his loyalty and faithfulness to duty, which is exactly why to get to Garrosh we have to go through him first. He swore an oath, and he lives and dies by the creed: always faithful. It's a hell of a way for him to go out. /Salute

[Abstieg]

After everything I've been through with Nazgrim, after every choice he made with regret in the name of honor, it's sad to see that he'd be willing to stand and fight against the priest he came to rely so heavily upon, all in the name of a false warchief.

[hablix]

Your Horde PC saves this knucklehead many times, and he's still a gung-ho idiot. No loss for me.

You know who I can't wait to kill!? The Paragons of Klaxxi. Fuck those ass-holes, their shitty quests, and their low rep gains only to have these guys spit on my character.

"Thanks for freeing me...I HATE YOU!" "Please revive my kin...AND FUCKING DIE IN A FIRE!" "Once this Pandaria crisis is over, and our queen is dead...WE WILL KILL YOU BECAUSE WE. HATE. YOU!!!!!"

Good riddance to them.

Maybe that fable you find in Pandaria, about the scorpion who stung the frog that tried to help him cross the river and drowned them both because it was "in his nature", was intentional foreshadowing of this whole Klaxxi business.

[Drilnos]

General Nazgrim as a boss is a great opportunity to highlight all the gray area in this whole situation. It's a bittersweet moment because we love Nazgrim for his loyalty and faithfulness to duty, which is exactly why to get to Garrosh we have to go through him first. He swore an oath, and he lives and dies by the creed: always faithful. It's a hell of a way for him to go out. /Salute

That works great until you realize we're going to be taking trophies off his corpse, vent is going to be full of people either cheering when he dies or bitching when he doesn't drop what they want, and you know that corpse is getting chopped up by the one joker with the ginsu knives every time he drops which will be at least once per week. And that's just how Horde players are going to be treating him. I'm sure about 90% of Alliance guilds are practicing their /spit keybinds and stand/sit technique in anticipation.

Solemnity and poignancy are not things which are going to exist in this situation. He is now a bad guy and it is his lot in life to be a meat bag full of epics from this point forward.

[Deleted]

Not surprising, Nazgrim has always been about Honor. And his Honor does blind him...

... I'm expecting Taylor appearing at the end and beat some sense into the fool orc.

[Arrashi]

Your Horde PC saves this knucklehead many times, and he's still a gung-ho idiot. No loss for me.

You know who I can't wait to kill!? The Paragons of Klaxxi. Fuck those ass-holes, their shitty quests, and their low rep gains only to have these guys spit on my character.

"Thanks for freeing me...I HATE YOU!" "Please revive my kin...AND FUCKING DIE IN A FIRE!" "Once this Pandaria crisis is over, and our queen is dead...WE WILL KILL YOU BECAUSE WE. HATE. YOU!!!!!"

Good riddance to them.

Now why so hostile ? Klaxxi paragons earned my respect with one thing. They are honest with us. All that bullshit that anduin, wrathion, vol'jin, jaina, that fat panda shado-pan dude, spew left and right makes my head hurt. Nazgrim at least doesnt use big words and doesnt have problems with BLOOD FOR BLOOD GOD mentality. Same with klaxxi. It's a shame we are forced into mary sue coventant and must fight against nice people.

[Bisso]

Personally I think Nazgrim will redeem himself in "his last dying breath" he will realise that his horde the "true horde" isn't actually the true horde. Fingers crossed he is redeemed!

That would be lame. The best way to do it would be that he always knew he was on the "wrong" side of the conflict. But as honor and loyalty drove him, he fully accepts his fate and die like a brave orc.

I remember Chris Metzen loudly shouting about war coming back to warcraft at MoP annoucement, and have yet to see any of it. War is not only about 2 opposite faction killing each other because they think the other side is evil and theirs is righteous. In real life, through history, how many soldiers do you think were killed in action, serving of a nation or a leader they didn't like or share the same vision of the conflict? Hint: alot.

I think it would be a great exit for a "lovable" character to die by our hands because both sides does what they were told or what they have to do. It's sad, but not cliche redemption/corrupted blizz love to pull off every damn seconds.

[Deleted]

Solemnity and poignancy are not things which are going to exist in this situation. He is now a bad guy and it is his lot in life to be a meat bag full of epics from this point forward.

Is a soldier a bad guy because he is honorable and loyal to his flag? I guess we should start killing everyone that lose a war, then...

[Drilnos]

Is a soldier a bad guy because he is honorable and loyal to his flag? I guess we should start killing everyone that lose a war, then...

Did I say I like this? No, I did not. But in much the same way there was no way to keep Mr Bigglesworth from dying in Naxx, there is going to be no way to treat the death of Nazgrim like a funeral.

[Gimlix]

Any ideas yet who will be the next General?
I assume it depends on the Warchief.

[Kalcheus]

Did I say I like this? No, I did not. But in much the same way there was no way to keep Mr Bigglesworth from dying in Naxx, there is going to be no way to treat the death of Nazgrim like a funeral.

idk, Blizz did a nice job with Saurfang's death.

[Deleted]

Did I say I like this? No, I did not. But in much the same way there was no way to keep Mr Bigglesworth from dying in Naxx, there is going to be no way to treat the death of Nazgrim like a funeral.

Except he isn't a bad guy just because he fight him.

[Trassk]

I guess this thing with Nazgrim just highlights one of the major issues with the current story in wow.

Well world of warcraft has had its title 'WARcraft' slung around by every poster who thinks this is the only thing that matters, and them demanding blizzard give more WARRRR in the story, when they do, as they have done, this is the result of if.

War isn't pretty, war isn't having slap fights in the barrens and running away giggling when you kill lowbie quest givers. War in such a story will have things being destroyed, towns, cities, and it will kill characters you know.

The consequences of war, it seems like something few really comprehend, and if you like characters in the story and enviroments, you can't have it both ways, you can't have characters who are warmongering and wanting to fight and kill.. and not get killed themselves. You can't have battles over territory and expect yourself Not to lose any of your own. War does this shit to a story, and blizzard don't seem to be pulling any punches now.

Nazgrim is just another character people liked who becomes a victim of this current story.

[Drilnos]

Except he isn't a bad guy just because he fight him.

You're talking about narrative. I'm talking about psychology. Do you honestly believe even 1% of the people who are going to kill him give a swut whether he dies with honor or not? They care about his gear list. All any boss is is a gear list. MMOs are a particularly wretched form of storytelling, and most players don't handle nuance well. You can stand there and play taps for him, but the scene is going to be a circus while you do your thing. And you know it.

[Deleted]

I guess this thing with Nazgrim just highlights one of the major issues with the current story in wow.

Well world of warcraft has had its title 'WARcraft' slung around by every poster who thinks this is the only thing that matters, and them demanding blizzard give more WARRRR in the story, when they do, as they have done, this is the result of if.

War isn't pretty, war isn't having slap fights in the barrens and running away giggling when you kill lowbie quest givers. War in such a story will have things being destroyed, towns, cities, and it will kill characters you know.

The consequences of war, it seems like something few really comprehend, and if you like characters in the story and enviroments, you can't have it both ways, you can't have characters who are warmongering and wanting to fight and kill.. and not get killed themselves. You can't have battles over territory and expect yourself Not to lose any of your own. War does this shit to a story, and blizzard don't seem to be pulling any punches now.

Nazgrim is just another character people liked who becomes a victim of this current story.

So... in your words, Blizzard is writing it right?

---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 10:14 PM ----------

You're talking about narrative. I'm talking about psychology. Do you honestly believe even 1% of the people who are going to kill him give a swut whether he dies with honor or not? They care about his gear list. All any boss is is a gear list. MMOs are a particularly wretched form of storytelling, and most players don't handle nuance well. You can stand there and play taps for him, but the scene is going to be a circus while you do your thing. And you know it.

Don't underestimate the value of a story. People still remember of Vael and BWL.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Hopefully it is Admiral Taylor who delivers the killing blow.

Looks like Nazgrim will be a true soldier till the end. Even after killing him, I will remember him as a great Horde military leader who gave me fits as Alliance.

I hope he is just beaten to near-death, when he is saved by Thrall. Leading Nazgrim to swear Loyalty to the New New New Horde.

[Penguintamer]

I've no words, I'm just sad.

[furriusmurrius]

You're talking about narrative. I'm talking about psychology. Do you honestly believe even 1% of the people who are going to kill him give a swut whether he dies with honor or not? They care about his gear list. All any boss is is a gear list. MMOs are a particularly wretched form of storytelling, and most players don't handle nuance well. You can stand there and play taps for him, but the scene is going to be a circus while you do your thing. And you know it.

Do you play on a RP server? I'm all for getting involved in a storyline but sheesh man, theres extremes to which you simply can't take things.


Edit: I feel I need to be a little bit clearer. What I'm saying is, making a lore character a boss fight does not relegate them to the bottom dregs of storytelling, for instance the Lich King still had a great storyline leading up to his final fight and demise at the end of WotLK, even if someone in your raid group /danced on his corpse after he died. I mean, the alternative is having major lore characters die in cutscenes during which the player has no control, and at that point aren't you better off watching a tv show or movie?

I don't know man, I feel like if you're the kind of guy who gets upset about player characters 'defiling' a lore character that is a boss then you should be playing on an RP server, killing that boss once and once alone in your entire lifetime, and then moving on. If you play with a normal raiding guild and kill bosses to get loot, then I don't know what to tell you; there is simply no room to be upset at the treatment of a lore character that becomes a killable boss.