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  1. #101
    A skilled hunter isn't subpar, we are right behind the big casters but still in front of the lesser ones (shamans) and all the melee.

    I have a feeling you call them subpar because you either have subpar hunters in your raid or you are subpar yourself.
    @Hikashuri

    Here is a WoL from your guild with you in it from last week:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/78ic6pmjvpzntit9/

    You:
    Jinrohk: 13th
    Horridon: 7th, pet 100% uptime on Horridon is the only reason you were in top 10
    Counsil: 18th
    Tortos: 18th
    Magaera: 14th
    Jinkun: 11th
    Durmu: you sat
    Primordius: 18th
    Dark Aniums: you sat
    20 Leishen attempts your average spot was 18. The 3 longest attempts you were 18,18,16

    I am no expert but those numbers sure look well below sub par to me...

    I'm often at or near the top in my guild and we ranked us 14th this tier.
    I would love to see some logs where your at the top, and what does near mean? I mean 12th is near the top in a 25 man cause its closer to the top than the bottom. I am not disputing your word sir but the numbers I have seen show a very different story.
    Last edited by jax; 2013-06-19 at 02:46 AM.

  2. #102
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vb7gdwzmzf8zhxzv/
    More of a single target
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pd...?s=7153&e=7774
    Check lei shen beat by 3 warlocks which on that fight doesn't count. These logs are close to a month old I really haven't played much since pretty bored with the game. My point is a skilled (and geared) hunter can routinely place in the top 10 on most fights.


    Megarises <Dread> US 16th 11/13 HM
    Founder of the "Swag Wagon" channel Korgath's most exclusive chat channel.
    Megazordd#1177 Twitch.tv/megazordd

  3. #103
    Hrmm interesting links because when I find you in your latest logs your well below the ones you linked from a month ago?

    LeiShen: 9th
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-47...?s=8479&e=9049

    Raden: 9th
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-47...=11546&e=11935

    In the log you linked you did 4th in your guild and got 12th in the world.
    Yet 3 weeks later you did 2k more dps you fell to 9th in your guild.
    Perhaps the logs you linked were with people less geared or maybe not top line raiders? Its hard to imagine you could do 2k more dps on the second log and slip 5 spots for any other reason?

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by jax View Post
    I would love to see some logs where your at the top, and what does near mean? I mean 12th is near the top in a 25 man cause its closer to the top than the bottom. I am not disputing your word sir but the numbers I have seen show a very different story.
    Do you actually do anything on this game apart from ask people for their logs?

    Hunters are fine. you're bad and can't play a Hunter properly. Therefore your DPS is bad. End of story.

  5. #105
    Do you actually do anything on this game apart from ask people for their logs?
    My bad, when people make false claims I ask that they show what they know. Its pretty simple and Im not sure why it would bother you one way or another that I asked 1 person for a log because I see hunter dps falling and the other person that claims hunters are great is running basically 18th in his guild...

    Hunters are fine. you're bad and can't play a Hunter properly. Therefore your DPS is bad. End of story.
    Yes, clearly the data showing them to be lower 3rd is wrong. Clearly I am bad because that is my experience too. Clearly seeing one of the worlds top hunters running 9th in his guild but 10th in the world on hunter friendly fights proves that only my dps is bad and thats the end of the story...

    /boggle

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by jax View Post
    My bad, when people make false claims I ask that they show what they know. Its pretty simple and Im not sure why it would bother you one way or another that I asked 1 person for a log because I see hunter dps falling and the other person that claims hunters are great is running basically 18th in his guild...

    Yes, clearly the data showing them to be lower 3rd is wrong. Clearly I am bad because that is my experience too. Clearly seeing one of the worlds top hunters running 9th in his guild but 10th in the world on hunter friendly fights proves that only my dps is bad and thats the end of the story...

    /boggle
    Go make your own thread then, this thread is about people who are required to spam Silencing Shot on cooldown or something. Seemingly in your eyes you need to be top on every fight to be considered a good class. Have you ever maybe thought that class mechanics and boss mechanics this tier favour a specific type of class, i.e, Multidotters? No you haven't because all you care about is the ending DPS instead of thinking about why that is the case.

    tl;dr: T15 is Multidot tier, not Hunter tier.
    Last edited by Glurp; 2013-06-19 at 03:17 AM.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Go make your own thread then, this thread is about people who are required to spam Silencing Shot on cooldown or something. Seemingly in your eyes you need to be top on every fight to be considered a good class. Have you ever maybe thought that class mechanics and boss mechanics this tier favour a specific type of class, i.e, Multidotters? No you haven't because all you care about is the ending DPS instead of thinking about why that is the case.

    tl;dr: T15 is Multidot tier, not Hunter tier.
    Tbh this thread is about "The future of hunter Pve" and not a silencing shot one. Have you stopped to think that maybe what he's saying is true? That when skilled hunters are surrounded with skilled people playing other classes we go to the bottom third? That this tier is all about multi dotting I agree with you but that doesnt mean we shouldnt do way better on some fights like Jin-rokh or Iron Qon for eg. Thing is you see mages/wlocks and rogues on the top on almost all the fights, being it a single target fight or a multi dotter one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Do you actually do anything on this game apart from ask people for their logs?

    Hunters are fine. you're bad and can't play a Hunter properly. Therefore your DPS is bad. End of story.
    If i was you i wouldn't call anyone a baddie, since you don't have any progress or parses to prove your not subpar. And those LFR's as MM parses dont count mate.
    Last edited by extazyz; 2013-06-19 at 03:35 AM.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by jax View Post
    My bad, when people make false claims I ask that they show what they know. Its pretty simple and Im not sure why it would bother you one way or another that I asked 1 person for a log because I see hunter dps falling and the other person that claims hunters are great is running basically 18th in his guild...

    Yes, clearly the data showing them to be lower 3rd is wrong. Clearly I am bad because that is my experience too. Clearly seeing one of the worlds top hunters running 9th in his guild but 10th in the world on hunter friendly fights proves that only my dps is bad and thats the end of the story...

    /boggle
    Bad play and lack of any significant upgrades (still no TF weapon) on my part. Lei shen especially just bad play.
    Also that raden was #1 in the world it's month old and now #12


    Megarises <Dread> US 16th 11/13 HM
    Founder of the "Swag Wagon" channel Korgath's most exclusive chat channel.
    Megazordd#1177 Twitch.tv/megazordd

  9. #109
    I'm "always" (if no multidotting possible) #1 in my raid but that doesn't make hunters decent, looking at raidbots we're 10th overall for damage and simcraft we're 8th (that's class not spec). So in practice and in theory we're behind other classes this tier which should be a valid concern for our future. I know Kenny says he's fine competing with the best of US but can't really see any proof anywhere.
    Hunter PoV HC SoO videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/shanattah
    Hunter PoV stream: Twitch.tv/Shanattah

  10. #110
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    I've been playing a hunter for 8 years. I love the class, but the fact of the matter is, that we're in a shitty place right now. Of course, I don't mean that we do shitty dps. Our dps is fine, but we bring nothing to the table really.

    Compared to our pure dps brethren we have:

    Rogues: Raid CD with Smoke Bomb, Great dps, and great survivability with feint.
    Warlocks: Gateway, Great survivability, Great dps, and healthstones.
    Mages: Great dps

    Mages are the only ones even near our situation, but the difference is that they are at the top of the totem pole when it comes to dps with Warlocks right now. We bring decent dps, no raid cooldowns, and deterrence, which is an incredible ability, but Shadow Priests have dispersion which is just as good.

    I'll admit, the fights this tier have been very kind to some classes, especially with those damned Lei Shen trinkets, but I think we have room for concern. We'll have to see how the fights work out in T16, but I do think that we aren't in the best place right now.

  11. #111
    @ Megazorrd

    Actually, it's 34th now. The point isn't that you aren't good, your dps is damn impressive, but if everyone in your guild was BiS and you were too, you wouldn't place higher than 10th and probably more likely 13-18. Now, having said that, you would still be doing big hunking gobs of damage, but in the grand scheme, and the WHOLE point to this thread, you would not be where you should be. We may not need giant buffs, but we need a little something. Do you agree? IF not, why not?
    Don't be elitist, it's a video game for crying out loud. Cure cancer, then you can be an asshole.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Megazorrd View Post
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vb7gdwzmzf8zhxzv/
    More of a single target
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pd...?s=7153&e=7774
    Check lei shen beat by 3 warlocks which on that fight doesn't count. These logs are close to a month old I really haven't played much since pretty bored with the game. My point is a skilled (and geared) hunter can routinely place in the top 10 on most fights.
    The thing is placing top 10 for your guild on meters isn't enough when locks bring survivability, mages more dps, boomkin bring raid healing and cool downs, rogues bring smoke bomb and the deeps, warriors banner, shaman deeps and heals, paladins raid cool downs...I could go on. The point is that for a pure dps with nothing "useful" for 25mans other than dps e are lacking. We should be able to pull the numbers of mages on fights or we need a raid cool down like rogues.

    The whole thing in heroic 25man raiding comes down to utility. If hunters bring nothing we can't cover with another class and can't out dps those classes, why bring a hunter and not stack the other classes? This is the reason that 2/3 hunters sat on fights like heroic council progression. We have nothing unique to bring and we sure as hell couldn't out dps the dotters. So stack chickens, spriests,mages, and locks and screw hunters. Maybe bring one for sunder armor. But more than that hell no.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Aertea View Post
    I don't understand why they can't just remove the blanket silence from it and turn it into an actual interrupt, that seems to be the real problem. If they did that and made the talent add the blanket silence, it would be far less mandatory, or they could just give the blanket version to MM only.
    I think that makes a good suggestion. I am especially reluctant to lose the blanket silence, but I think it would be a much more reasonable trade-off. Losing our ranged interrupt altogether sounds like a nightmare for many solo situations. Just last night I interrupted Wrathion during the Celestial Blessings quest. I could live without it, but why should I if Mages, Warlocks, Shamans, Priests and Druids all have a ranged interrupt?

  14. #114
    We really need something to bring to a raid. The whole "you can bring any buffs that your raid is missing" excuse just doesn't work for 25 man raiding, and it isn't even entirely true when you consider that most hunters don't have access to being able to bring Bloodlust or the Quilen rez.

    The fact is, all the other pure DPS'ers bring something that a 25 man wants. Rogues brings Smoke Bomb which is a great raid cooldown with 20% damage reduction. They bring Tricks of the Trade which also boosts the person's damage, and their disarm is (although situational) pretty damn useful on fights like heroic Horridon. Mages have their mage table and Time Warp, and Warlocks have healthstones, soulstone and warlock portals. And then there's countless other raid tools that other DPS'ers bring; healing and totems from DPS shamans, banners and Rallying Cry from warriors (we really need something that's on par with Rallying Cry's usefulness), and all that good stuff that Monks have.

    Hunters bring... Aspect of the Pack and Misdirection. And Aspect of the Pack is useless.

    With the loss of Silencing Shot and the awfulness that is the Marksmanship rotation, we're going to bring even less than before, so they really need to shape up Marksmanship because it hasn't been fun or cohesive to play since Wrath of the Lich King. The whole Aimed Shot/Arcane Shot debate needs to be gotten rid of by the Devs, and the rotation just needs to be more fun.

  15. #115
    Go make your own thread then, this thread is about people who are required to spam Silencing Shot on cooldown or something.
    and here I thought it was The future of Hunter PVE...

    Seemingly in your eyes you need to be top on every fight to be considered a good class.
    Nahhh, but I would like to be on top for at least ONE fight... maybe top 5 on HALF the fights? We are a pure dps class like Mages and Locks and they dominate the top 5 on 11/13 heroic fights... why shouldnt we be comparable?

    Have you ever maybe thought that class mechanics and boss mechanics this tier favour a specific type of class, i.e, Multidotters?
    Have you ever maybe thought that we have heard that for the past 5 tiers? Multi dotters have been dominating since FL...

    No you haven't because all you care about is the ending DPS instead of thinking about why that is the case.
    How dare a pure dps class that has no raid CD to help raids care about only dps... Oh the humanity! What is the world coming to?
    ROFL...
    You clearly have some issues and while I dont mind you trying to take them out on me... its just coming out as nonsense. Sorry if that offends you but seriously? Your getting on to me for only caring about dps when I am a dps and can do nothing else? Seriously?? Wow...[COLOR="red"]

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 12:13 AM ----------

    I'm "always" (if no multidotting possible) #1 in my raid
    And yet looking at your parses your not top on anyone of them, your more often 3rd to 5th out of 6 dps in your 10 man?

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...one/?enc=kills

    The point is that for a pure dps with nothing "useful" for 25mans other than dps e are lacking. We should be able to pull the numbers of mages on fights or we need a raid cool down like rogues.
    A thousand times this! This is exactly the point I am trying to illustrate. If we are pures then we should do numbers compareable to the other pure ranged... Locks and Mages, but we dont, we are not even close and that is wrong. If we do not deserve to be close then by god give us a 3 min aspect that reduces all damage by 20% for 6 seconds too.
    Last edited by jax; 2013-06-20 at 04:22 AM.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Shootandkill View Post
    I've been playing a hunter for 8 years. I love the class, but the fact of the matter is, that we're in a shitty place right now. Of course, I don't mean that we do shitty dps. Our dps is fine, but we bring nothing to the table really.

    Compared to our pure dps brethren we have:

    Rogues: Raid CD with Smoke Bomb, Great dps, and great survivability with feint.
    Warlocks: Gateway, Great survivability, Great dps, and healthstones.
    Mages: Great dps

    Mages are the only ones even near our situation, but the difference is that they are at the top of the totem pole when it comes to dps with Warlocks right now. We bring decent dps, no raid cooldowns, and deterrence, which is an incredible ability, but Shadow Priests have dispersion which is just as good.

    I'll admit, the fights this tier have been very kind to some classes, especially with those damned Lei Shen trinkets, but I think we have room for concern. We'll have to see how the fights work out in T16, but I do think that we aren't in the best place right now.
    We can bring pretty much any buff/debuff out there which is incredibly useful in even the most organized 10 man group and opens up the comp a little more when you have that kind of flexibility with buffs. Also, misdirect saves lives.

    When it comes to pve I don't see this as a huge loss of utility, only fight I felt it necessary was Alysrazor in Firelands. The situation where a hunter is in charge of interrupt is generally a bad situation unless you are moving a fresh add spellcaster and even then any shaman/prot pally/dk/bear/spriest/mage can also handle that.

    I saw a lot of talking out of both sides of the mouth in this thread. In one post a person was saying he might lose his raid spot and the next it was about how they were casual and grabbed whoever was available so they wont be kicked but would alter their strat.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by jax View Post

    And yet looking at your parses your not top on anyone of them, your more often 3rd to 5th out of 6 dps in your 10 man?

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...one/?enc=kills
    Linking overall boss damage when I'm not present on half the bosses? Also I'm also very surprised by the amount I got beaten by the ele shaman on jin'rokh and if u actually looked at previous logs (at the time of my statement) you'd see me first on those fights even while lacking sunder armor or 10% AS
    Hunter PoV HC SoO videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/shanattah
    Hunter PoV stream: Twitch.tv/Shanattah

  18. #118
    We don't fulfill a niche of any kind, especially since they're making everyone somewhat mobile. We bring no raid CDs. Survivability is laughable. Not good at cleave or multitarget fights. Decent at AoE and Single target.

    So why bring a hunter?

  19. #119
    Our greatest raid benefit is that we soak agi mail

  20. #120
    Linking overall boss damage when I'm not present on half the bosses?
    ?
    My link was: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...one/?enc=kills
    So whoever wanted to look could go to each boss themselves not to try and show your overall damage. Ill post your postions manually since there seems to be a disconnect.

    Jin: 2nd out of 6
    Horridon: 3rd out of 6
    Counsil: 3rd out of 6
    Tortos 4th out of 6
    Durumu: 3 to 4th out of 6

    Your clearly good but your logs do not show that you are: "I'm "always" (if no multidotting possible) #1 in my raid"

    You are not top on any of the fights at all and your in a 10 man and the numbers we are discussing are 25 man.
    You take your parses: basically 3rd out of 6 dps and put them in a 25 man and your doing 10th to 15th just by adding more people. If your stacking classes for CDs then your very possibly 12th to 16th...

    Please do not get offended, your very good, I just keep seeing hunters say we are fine and that we arent middle of the pack and slipping and Im told no we are great, I go and check numbers for that hunter and I keep seeing exactly what I have been seeing and what the numbers are showing: Bottom third on 11/13 fights and dropping.

    One guy had the balls to say how great we were and checking his numbers he was running 18th in his 25 man...
    /boggle
    Last edited by jax; 2013-06-20 at 12:16 PM.

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