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  1. #21
    Herald of the Titans icausewipes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Sold millions of books and made Billions of $$ on Harry Potter. I would say that qualifies. However, I don't want Hogwarts at Stormwind, so we need a storyteller of that caliber when it comes to magic and fantasy.
    Iron man 3 made over a billion dollars and the writers are still defending the movie.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrSaTHsHNsc
    Greatest Dr Who video ever made.

  2. #22
    Lucas actually was horrible in doing the dialogues. His huge professional team of the original Triology stopped him back then.

    Unfortunately he got more freedom doing them in the prequel.

    And finally i have to say starwars was totally a teameffort. So many specialist played major roles in there. I mean Jim Henson who created the Muppets made the puppets. For instance Jabba the Hut and company. Look at him in the original, and compare it to the digital one.

    Lucas is a very overrated man, so is metzen. I did read a lot of good quest stories in cata for example. He never took part in it. However it was inspired obviously by Jules Vernes and Indiana Jones. Looking at the global events in wow i am very disappointed if i compare this to what happened in warcraft 1-3 lore. Just the global events not the little side stories. Wacraft 1-3 build up so many unique and interesting, developed characters, its just too awesome for a humble rts series.

    WoW has created.....what.....garrosh?
    Not exactly a new idea grom hellscream his father allready was there during the 2nd war. And his persona in the 3rd war was more believable, still hotheaded but without all the annoyances garrosh had.

    Whats exactly new, well Pandaria? uh...
    Last edited by Tyrannica; 2013-06-12 at 04:05 PM.

  3. #23
    Brewmaster Pejo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivyr View Post
    My one gripe about lore over the past few expansions has been the underlying corruption theme. Why cant a boss just be a badass. I was hopeing to fight garrosh the unrelenting warrior, not Garrosh the man who sold his soul to an old god.
    The reason why is that Garrosh wouldn't have the power to fight the raid and would be unrealistic if that was the case. However, by realizing this and being desperate enough to do anything to win, using the power of an Old God is perfectly fine story-wise.

    I think the story has been fine as well. Definitely not as strong as WotLK story-wise but that is because Arthas is a well developed character from their RTS days. I do believe that the actual story telling has been amazing this expansion. I really feel the true challenge, and to see if Blizzard learned from their mistake, is to make an excellent story transition between expansions. If they want to make a big impact, it must be done with a server wide event(s).

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivyr View Post
    My one gripe about lore over the past few expansions has been the underlying corruption theme. Why cant a boss just be a badass. I was hopeing to fight garrosh the unrelenting warrior, not Garrosh the man who sold his soul to an old god.
    Well, in wow everything is somehow an old god.

    You need to go back and play warcraft tides of darkness, most orcs are uncorrupted, there are just a few warlocks and death knights. Orgrim Doomhammer the warchief is totally ucorrupted and still badass. Even the Cover remembers on MoP Nazgrim and human counterpart and its really only alliance vs horde. Demons don't got the big focus either. No old gods at all.

    its a game for 12+ years old, everything evil must be corrupted or it gets censored.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    I get it, I really do. People are passionate about their characters and storylines. No one wants to see a poorly written storyline. I spent the better part of the game as Alliance. I know what it was like to be lacking story. I truly do understand the frustration. That makes my next phrase that much harder to say.

    Get over it. It is a game. It is a very old game which is lacking for fresh ideas. The devoted nerds who once brought us epic storylines like the Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King have long since left the building. The fan base wanted content cranked out faster and faster. Well, guess what happens to most stories when they get rushed. You guessed it. They suck ass.

    There are two sides to blame here. The first side to blame is the hardcore player base for demanding content be released every 30 days. The second side to blame is Blizz, for listening to them. Had Blizz ignored the chronic complainers, and followed their instincts following Wrath, Cata would likely have been a better release and storyline. If the same people who brought us the greatest stories in the game be responsible for the slow and methodical writing and implementation of Cata, sub would have likely stayed at a higher number (10M example) and slow / planned patches through Cata would have kept the playerbase well stocked.

    Faster, is not always better. I enjoyed MoP when it first dropped. Anything was better than Cata. Then, the tide turned. My appreciation was not destroyed by Blizz, but by the players. Every single patch had 200 threads about how something was losing 1% of its power, or how dailies are "mandatory", or how LFR sucks, or a hundred other ridiculous personal opinions. And yes... this is my opinion. To some it will likely sound like complaining. Honestly, I don't care. Anyone who is quick to toss the term QQ is pretty much a DBag and the reason for the decline in the game.

    You want better stories? You want better content? Instead of complaining about the existing story, maybe protest the person writing it. They obviously haven't got the passion to write it all out. Also, protest the content developers. Tell them you want more valuable content and less "busy work" for end game. Be the change. Open up something constructive and dialogue it. Get it noticed. Don't be the guy that just belittles another's opinion and disects the post and replies to it in sections.

    This game could be great again, if the right people are running the show and are taking their time with the support of the community. So, that's my 2 cents. Feel free to agree or disagree, but do yourself a favor and try to do it as positively as possible. No one likes the Dbag that just tosses out a QQ and leaves the convo.
    Your argument seems to be a little contradictory to me. You tell people to "get over it. It is a game" and then add 5 paragraphs that basically give your opinion on how Blizzard and team could have handled/handle the game's progression and story better (essentially what you're telling people to get over, no?).

    I personally enjoy the game primarily for the end game, but wholeheartedly agree that skimping on story to please the hardcore is silly. However, looking at the changes that Blizz incorporated this expansion, I feel like a good portion of them are directed more towards the "casual" or "normal" crowd rather than the hardcore. The content has been coming out at a brisk pace (compared to before), but if anything it helps move the story along. As great as WoTLK and TBC were in terms of "epicness", I personally remember feeling pretty bored during the tail end of patches. The content started feeling stale and the longer I had to wait for the Lich King, the less I started to care. In fact, I actually quit before ICC came out, but from what I heard, having months and months of the Lich King killed any sense of epicness that had.

    I personally agree with you that Mist hasn't had the most rousing and exciting story line (I really don't care who Lei-Shen is and why I'm killing him), but I don't think that's directly indicative of a lack of passion on the content dev's side. I think it's good for people to be vocal about something if they don't enjoy it, seeing how we are paying customers, but there seems to be a population of people who find Mists to be great too. One thing I do have to give to the creative team - this is the first time where I'm actually (sort of) following along in terms of storyline. I may not exactly enjoy it, but at least they're doing a better job of keeping people "involved".

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepstrider View Post
    JK Rowling is a skilled storyteller, but please don't confuse that with a skilled writer.
    Outside of the Harry Potter series, her writing is godawful.
    She's not good at all. At best she's a children's book writer who's managed to convince people that her books aren't aimed at children. I couldn't get into it at all because the writing style was so hamfisted.

    And there's nothing wrong with WoW's storytelling for the most part. The only problem is Garrosh, and that's only if you convince yourself that he's not been written to be mentally unstable. Which he clearly is.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Don't understand why people hate on MoP lore.
    Lore of MoP hasn't been this good for years.

    Have you even played MoP? Don't say: Yes... after 1 month i quitted..
    Isle of Thunder was, well done. The overall global story wasn't surprising at all.(thunderking uh uh)

    But, the quality of the story was well done. The single player scenarios really did add a lot as far as story telling goes. I hope they keep this mechanic to tell a story and expand on it.

    In other words, everythere Metzen was not involved, was well done. The dude just makes the lore, not quests and all the ingame story texts and events.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post

    There are two sides to blame here. The first side to blame is the hardcore player base for demanding content be released every 30 days. The second side to blame is Blizz, for listening to them. Had Blizz ignored the chronic complainers, and followed their instincts following Wrath, Cata would likely have been a better release and storyline. If the same people who brought us the greatest stories in the game be responsible for the slow and methodical writing and implementation of Cata, sub would have likely stayed at a higher number (10M example) and slow / planned patches through Cata would have kept the playerbase well stocked.
    I just have to comment on how 100% incorrect this is. Its amazing how people can twist logic 180 degrees to justify their position.

    It is not the hardcore who demand new content be released constantly, its the casuals. Why? Because hardcores are happy with legitimately difficult content that takes months to complete. They don't need or want constant new raids, they want 1 hard raid that lasts for a long time. Its the casuals who grow bored of raids quickly because they offer zero challenge or sense of accomplishment, so Blizzard is forced to keep feeding them new ones, relying on the "new and shiny" effect to keep them interested rather than actual challenge. New and shiny doesn't last, and that is why Blizzard is forced to pump out new content so quickly; to appease the casuals who need constant new visual stimuli.

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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Like I said, I enjoyed MoP... when it launched. Now, the story is just getting ridiculous. They are already jumping the shark by reskinning Garrosh in 5.4. I miss the epic stories of ICC and the Black Temple. Stories just haven't felt massive since Wrath, and I am saddened by this since there were some GREAT stories and patches up until the sundering of 4.0.
    i only enjoyed the story and events in 5.1 and 5.2.

    The rest was either incredible stupid or boring for me, meaning 5.0 and 5.3. And 5.4 doesn't look too promising either. ;>

    As i said in some other threads here, bring out another expansion and end it all there, finally. Next expansion, Azshara, N'zoth, KJ, Sargeras, Bolvar Lichking. Could all end in a big armageddon and big fat nuke with a gigantic mushroom.

    After this, they can start on a completely new story with all new landscapes, characters and lore

    Launch wc4

    and a new wow era.

    Btw, next time they should not focus so much about just gear. this sucks. they should focus more about atmosphere and bringing a world to life. I think, that was important for the original devs too, that now return to wow cause Titan was canceled.
    Last edited by Tyrannica; 2013-06-12 at 04:40 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Like I said, I enjoyed MoP... when it launched. Now, the story is just getting ridiculous. They are already jumping the shark by reskinning Garrosh in 5.4. I miss the epic stories of ICC and the Black Temple. Stories just haven't felt massive since Wrath, and I am saddened by this since there were some GREAT stories and patches up until the sundering of 4.0.
    Which was the epic Black Temple storyline exactly? Illidan had to die because... he simply had to die. Maiev appearing only during the fight and then disappearing again forever. Akama doing very little. The raid environment was epic, the story much less.
    I won't mention ICC since I think that the LK storyline was really badly written.
    Last edited by Stannis; 2013-06-12 at 04:38 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Good analogy with George Lucas. I agree. I think Chris M has just gotten off track with how the story should be written and could use the help of 4 or 5 devoted WoW Novella fans or authors of similar taste. If the storyline is amazing, the content patches will have plenty to live up to.
    I find it arrogant to think that anyone can really say how a story should be written better than the writers.

    Quality of writing is certainly something that can be objectively quantified but to say what the story should be? Simply arrogance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stannis View Post
    Which was the epic Black Temple storyline exactly? Illidan had to die because... he simply had to die. Maiev appearing only during the fight and then disappearing again forever. Akama does very little. The raid environment was epic, the story much less.
    Yeeeeah Black Temple didn't have a story other than Akama betraying Illidan and smuggling Maiev in. The solo scenario for warlocks that went back into the Black Temple had more story, and a far more interesting plotline. One (tiny) portion of a patch versus the primary content of another patch, and there's more story in that sliver of content.
    Last edited by The Madgod; 2013-06-12 at 04:39 PM.

  12. #32
    Bloodsail Admiral Nillah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swagster View Post
    The person writing it is unskilled and has been using cliches for a long time. Blizzard is very rich I don't get why they can't hire JK Rowling or Masashi Kishimoto, two very skilled writers
    Rowling writing for WoW would certainly be something else.

    OT, I've been playing this game around 7 years myself, and I certainly have a passion for it, but I've never once gotten upset about the sides' storylines like some people are. I don't see the point, we're all playing the same game, I don't care what side has "control" of the story. I'll enjoy it anyway. I think more than anything I'm frustrated because I don't understand why they feel that way. I don't get it.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    She's not good at all. At best she's a children's book writer who's managed to convince people that her books aren't aimed at children. I couldn't get into it at all because the writing style was so hamfisted.
    To be honest I agree with you, but I was dodging all the "she sold XXXX amount so must be good" comments
    There is only one thing that we say to the god of death.
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepstrider View Post
    JK Rowling is a skilled storyteller, but please don't confuse that with a skilled writer.
    Outside of the Harry Potter series, her writing is godawful.
    I'm not a fan of her writing style but I wouldn't call it completely awful - go read the Twilight series if you want to know what really bad writing is like.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 07:05 PM ----------

    I think the problem with the story in this game is they seem to design content first based on whatever the art team and project leads come up with and tack the story on later.

  15. #35
    This thread is weak because it relies on the assumption that the storyline is bad, which is just your subjective opinion. I, for one, think this storyline is the most cohesive and interesting one since WotLK. WotLK was the ultimate WoW storyline, and it was executed very well for the most part. This still is a video game, as you, the OP, would like to remind us inferior readers. With that said, what you need to realize is this game can't rely on any one of it's features to push the rest of the game. The main audience will quit even if the storyline is the best thing since sliced bread as long as the gameplay sucks.

    But Mists of Pandaria hasn't lacked in any of that. The past two tiers have been amazing, and have widely received positive feeback by most who it was designed for. A lot of the top guilds and the guilds in between love ToT. It really is quite amazing. The boss fights are fresh and Lei Shen really was worthy of the end boss of a raid. Not to mention the artwork and the experience as you push deeper into the citadel is quite amazing.

    The truth is, there are going to be people who are jaded because they don't like MoP for reason A, B or C. They will come into this thread and vastly support the original poster's claims, saying the writing is weak and we need to rebel against it and rise up and cause the storytelling revolution.

    Then there will be people, like me, who ADORE MoP. They will come in and probably say something similar to what I'm saying because they actually like the storyline as it's currently running and don't want the direction to be changed.

    Now we both have our opinions. No matter how we try to dissect this conversation, at the end of the day, one person likes one thing and responds to it well, and one person doesn't. That doesn't make the first person, nor the second person wrong. It just means they have different tastes. The fact that you want to push your beliefs onto the rest of us and try to cause a drastic change in the storytelling by replacing the writer, who you think has lost his passion (That's a HUGE personal opinion if I ever did see one), really just makes me go, "Wow...really?" Considering there are millions of people out there really enjoying this story and the entire experience of MoP (and trust me, I've seen a ton of them. Most people on my server, actually.) and there are probably millions of people out there who are hating it, why don't we just agree to let the writer do the writing? It's HIS work, afterall, and he shouldn't really be writing it for anyone other than himself, which you even made a point of.

    You want him to be passionate about what he does and write a fantastic story, yet you then go back and say you want to either remove him entirely or insert your idea A, B or C into the mix, which to me is largely hypocritical. You want to be wise? You want to be insightful? Just let the damn writer be. If his work isn't "up to your standards," then maybe you could find a better story, more to your liking, somewhere else, instead?

  16. #36
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post

    Get over it. It is a game. It is a very old game which is lacking for fresh ideas.

    This game could be great again, if the right people are running the show and are taking their time with the support of the community. So, that's my 2 cents. Feel free to agree or disagree, but do yourself a favor and try to do it as positively as possible. No one likes the Dbag that just tosses out a QQ and leaves the convo.
    ...so..ermm..what are "fresh" ideas? Not like you are offering any. I guess if you had them you could be rich..if that is what the game..or any game needs.

    Me..I doubt a fresh story idea is gonna cut it...whatever fresh means to you?

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 08:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepstrider View Post
    To be honest I agree with you, but I was dodging all the "she sold XXXX amount so must be good" comments
    To sell so many copies means..."appeal to the masses". The bible is the most sold book. LotR is second, I believe (Western hemisphere). Avatar is the most successful film. I have no idea what the most succesful rock band would be. there are countless lists, all based on opinion. And then there is this list to pick from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._music_artists. Whoopps. Celine Dion sells more than the Rolling Stones...
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by laserguns View Post
    I'm not a fan of her writing style but I wouldn't call it completely awful - go read the Twilight series if you want to know what really bad writing is like.
    The writing in her latest book is not that far removed from the drivel that Meyer produces.
    There is only one thing that we say to the god of death.
    "Take Sean Bean instead."

  18. #38
    Brewmaster Sarithus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Sold millions of books and made Billions of $$ on Harry Potter. I would say that qualifies. However, I don't want Hogwarts at Stormwind, so we need a storyteller of that caliber when it comes to magic and fantasy.
    What the fuck?

    So whoever wrote twilight is a good writer because it sells like crazy?

    You're an idiot.
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarithus View Post
    What the fuck?

    So whoever wrote twilight is a good writer because it sells like crazy?

    You're an idiot.
    Are you seriously trying to compare Harry Potter to Twilight?

    Twilight is a huge piece of garbage that only had female teenagers as audience. HP had copies sold to males and females of all ages.

  20. #40
    The only thing that bothers me with the WoW storyline is they decided to solve conflicts in books. Choose whatever medium you want to tell a story, but please tell the whole thing in that medium. I honestly wouldn't care if they just pieced those stories together in like virtual books found in the WoW world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

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