Garrosh = New Orc player model.

[Falrinn]

The New Garrosh Model is NOT the new Orc model.

They both use the basic Orc model skeletons, just like the Early 5.2 Zanadalari did with Night Elves.

What differs is the touch-ups and editing in the animations to make it flow better with Garrosh's movements. They added individual fingers to his model, and have his face a ton of new 'bones' to add facial expressions.

The quality of this model and how expressive and fluid his movement, however, *IS* a 'preview' of what's to come at Blizzcon. But Blizzard has stated that the player models are getting a total make-over, both texture and skeleton wise. Garrosh still uses a -base- Orc skeleton.

You are aware that if the model has more "bones" then by definition it is not the same skeleton, right?

Obviously the overall structure is going to be similar simply because it's still an Orc model. Blizzard isn't going to change it so radically it's not even recognizable as a Warcraft Orc.

And again, they aren't going to painstakingly create detailed facial expressions for emotes Garrosh never actually uses.

[TirielWoW]

Except, you know, ITS STILL HUNCHED.

Yes the animations are up to date, that was going to happen regardless, its obvious they were going to improve the animations. But the fact they still leave the orc model hunched just makes it seem pointless, when for YEARS we've been saying how much we hate the orc hunch.

Not everyone hates that hunch. You hate it, and that's okay. But a lot of players love the look, too.

[Chat]

People saying that this is not the new model just because it still looks the same..

Blizzard did state that they wanted to freshen up the models but NOT make them unrecognizable. Because people would be all "This model isnt my character anymore"

[Mormolyce]

It's very telling about Blizzards progress on the player models. I think it's supremely obvious that this Garrosh model is based off the new Orc Player models, not so much because of what he would need as a raid boss like run and sprint obviously, but stuff that he really wouldn't need to animate like the cry and roll animations.

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. The emotes connect to the skeletons, not the models, correct?

Tell me if I'm crazy, but isn't his "talk" emote the male Pandaren one?

I suspect the "roll" animation is a generic one for all skeletons, they probably just added it to everything when they made Monks.

But it DOES show the quality of models they're capable of making now. I hope the Orc model doesn't wind up looking too Garroshy myself. I think he looks a bit deranged (even in his Cata form) and hyper-macho even for an Orc.

---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 02:40 AM ----------

You are aware that if the model has more "bones" then by definition it is not the same skeleton, right?

Debateable. They had to alter the skeletons of all the races to include some of the new Monk animations didn't they? Does my male undead have a new skeleton now? I think it's more like a slightly modified skeleton.

But yeah, "new models" may or may not mean "new skeletons".

---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 02:41 AM ----------

there are no orc females

Personally I think the female Orc has one of the best models Horde side. She looks great in almost any armour I put her in.

---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 02:45 AM ----------

Head leans forward with a slight hunch. Perfect:

Pity it also looks like Rob Liefeld drew an anime ad for constipation.

[TirielWoW]

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. The emotes connect to the skeletons, not the models, correct?

Tell me if I'm crazy, but isn't his "talk" emote the male Pandaren one?

I suspect the "roll" animation is a generic one for all skeletons, they probably just added it to everything when they made Monks.

But it DOES show the quality of models they're capable of making now. I hope the Orc model doesn't wind up looking too Garroshy myself. I think he looks a bit deranged (even in his Cata form) and hyper-macho even for an Orc.

Sure, but none of his animations belong to another race. They're different and new. They're similar to the ones Orcs have always had, and to some Pandaren emotes, but they are not the same emotes at all. All you have to do is read through the previous pages of this thread, and the OP provides example after example, most side-by-side, showing that the emotes are different.

Debateable. They had to alter the skeletons of all the races to include some of the new Monk animations didn't they? Does my male undead have a new skeleton now? I think it's more like a slightly modified skeleton.

But yeah, "new models" may or may not mean "new skeletons".

They mentioned several times that the new models will include new skeletons. They didn't actually alter the skeletons of the old models to attach the monk animations, which is why on some models they really don't look "right." Simply doing a reskin wouldn't actually bring the old models up to the Pandaren standard, and they have made it clear that the new models will be at least as good as the Pandaren models.

Personally I think the female Orc has one of the best models Horde side. She looks great in almost any armour I put her in.

She has two pixels for her entire body. Her armor is higher res than she is. :-P

[Mister J]

You are aware that if the model has more "bones" then by definition it is not the same skeleton, right?

Obviously the overall structure is going to be similar simply because it's still an Orc model. Blizzard isn't going to change it so radically it's not even recognizable as a Warcraft Orc.

And again, they aren't going to painstakingly create detailed facial expressions for emotes Garrosh never actually uses.

GC says they want to keep certain animations that are identifiable, like the Female Undead Attack flip, or something, but that re-working new models would require an entire over-haul. He confirmed that new models were brand new everything.

People have asked him if reworking Skeletons was the intention for new models and he pretty much said no. And Garrosh is a re-worked Skeleton.

Why did Thrall get all those crazy animations and facial expressions, if he never used them?

[TirielWoW]

GC says they want to keep certain animations that are identifiable, like the Female Undead Attack flip, or something, but that re-working new models would require an entire over-haul. He confirmed that new models were brand new everything.

People have asked him if reworking Skeletons was the intention for new models and he pretty much said no. And Garrosh is a re-worked Skeleton.

Why did Thrall get all those crazy animations and facial expressions, if he never used them?

I don't recall GC ever saying that they weren't reworking the skeletons. I recall them explicitly stating that the reason why Pandaren move the way they do is because their skeletons are much more complicated than the original race models, and that they wanted to update the races to have the same level of complexity in their skeletons. So I don't know where you're getting this idea that GC has somehow said they're not redoing the skeletons.

Also, most of the expressions you're talking about were used in either cutscenes or the whole questline you go on to "save Go'el" and are never seen again after that. But there weren't very many.

[jcf190]

The devs stated that npc models are not indicative of new player models when Throne of Thunder was released (referencing the new troll boss models). I assume the same applies to Garrosh.

[TirielWoW]

The devs stated that npc models are not indicative of new player models when Throne of Thunder was released (referencing the new troll boss models). I assume the same applies to Garrosh.

Please read the rest of the thread. :-\ Seriously. The OP explains why he thinks what he thinks.

[ATZenith]

Not everyone hates that hunch. You hate it, and that's okay. But a lot of players love the look, too.

No. Most Orcs who play Orcs hate the hunch.

[laughtrey]

The New Garrosh Model is NOT the new Orc model.

They both use the basic Orc model skeletons, just like the Early 5.2 Zanadalari did with Night Elves.

What differs is the touch-ups and editing in the animations to make it flow better with Garrosh's movements. They added individual fingers to his model, and have his face a ton of new 'bones' to add facial expressions.

The quality of this model and how expressive and fluid his movement, however, *IS* a 'preview' of what's to come at Blizzcon. But Blizzard has stated that the player models are getting a total make-over, both texture and skeleton wise. Garrosh still uses a -base- Orc skeleton.

He's obviously still being updated and is unfinished. I wouldn't like them to do a whole new set of animations without even looking at the old ones.


For instance the /cry and /no are like a 2013 version of the 2003 version, but run and sprint are built from the ground up. New, yet not too different that you don't recognize the races.

[TirielWoW]

No. Most Orcs who play Orcs hate the hunch.

I know an entire guild of Orcs who love their shoulders. :-\

[laughtrey]

I know an entire guild of Orcs who love their shoulders. :-\

Yeah, Imagine playing Orc and your giant shoulder models are gone because they clip into your head now instead of it being tucked down.

[TirielWoW]

Yeah, Imagine playing Orc and your giant shoulder models are gone because they clip into your head now instead of it being tucked down.

I don't play Orcs because I can't stand the models at the moment. They just look so ugly compared to their armor.

[Belize]

The Orcs grow from spores, so they don't need females.

This isn't warhammer. Don't think I didn't catch that

[Jce]

I just had to post this because it seems like some of you don't know how character models and skeletons work... A model is a hollow shell, and is just structure as a 3D base for an object. They're often static, meaning they can't pass through other objects. The model is skinned, which is the individual textures that Blizzard is using for different characters. Inside of the model is the skeleton, which is made up of bones. Each bone is attached to a pivot, which you can use to adjust the model's arm(or any other attachment) to what you want. Animations are recorded by taking "screen shots" of the model while adjusting the skeleton. The more screen shots you take, the longer the animation takes to complete. So in theory, all Blizzard needs to do is take their saved states of the orcs, add more bones to the skeleton, and take more screen shots to make the final animation smoother. The skin is a completely different story, as skins are normally applied as completely flat imagines which "wrap around" the model. I hope this clears some things up

[Celarent]

Very interesting.

The designers were tasked with walking a tightrope between familiarity and modernity — looks like they made it to the other side.

[laughtrey]

I just had to post this because it seems like some of you don't know how character models and skeletons work... A model is a hollow shell, and is just structure as a 3D base for an object. They're often static, meaning they can't pass through other objects. The model is skinned, which is the individual textures that Blizzard is using for different characters. Inside of the model is the skeleton, which is made up of bones. Each bone is attached to a pivot, which you can use to adjust the model's arm(or any other attachment) to what you want. Animations are recorded by taking "screen shots" of the model while adjusting the skeleton. The more screen shots you take, the longer the animation takes to complete. So in theory, all Blizzard needs to do is take their saved states of the orcs, add more bones to the skeleton, and take more screen shots to make the final animation smoother. The skin is a completely different story, as skins are normally applied as completely flat imagines which "wrap around" the model. I hope this clears some things up

You make it sound like you can do it in an afternoon. Doing this is essentially making 8 new races.

[Deleted]

No way all those animations are just for Garrosh. I mean there's even a sleep emote where he's snoring, his mouth slanted and his lip quivering.

[Kathranis]

I suggest changing your title ever so slightly: Garrosh = New Orc player skeleton.

The more detailed hand and facial animations are a dead giveaway (facial and hand animations are something Blizzard specifically highlights as major improvements in the new models when discussing them), but this is still a unique creature model that doesn't match up with the actual orc model.

OP, mind posting comparisons of the bones and wireframe?

Maybe make some animations with some of the geosets (like the shoulder armor) disabled too.