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  1. #1

    Which iLvl distribution do you like better?

    From datamining, the gear right now is 554 Heroic, 541 Normal, 527 Flex, 521 LFR, with only Normal and Heroic getting TF (or whatever they're going to call it).

    But, GC tweeted they might do 566 Heroic 553 Normal, 536 Flex, and 528 LFR.

    What's better in your eyes? Obviously a lot of people would like the 1st one, where Orgrimmar LFR gear is lower than Normal ToT so technically Normal raiders won't "have" to run LFR, and maybe Flex if they want to

    But, either way, what's kind of strange in both cases is how....low flex gear is, thought it's be closer to Normal than LFR. Maybe Flex will be easier than we thought?

  2. #2
    The big question is whether they intend to continue thunderforging. Personally, I hate it except on the rare weeks when something I actually want drops.

    But if we're keeping thunderforging AND item upgrades, you need slightly lower base item levels to keep stat inflation from pushing us into unintended consequences levels.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninotchka View Post
    The big question is whether they intend to continue thunderforging. Personally, I hate it except on the rare weeks when something I actually want drops.

    But if we're keeping thunderforging AND item upgrades, you need slightly lower base item levels to keep stat inflation from pushing us into unintended consequences levels.
    I think there's actually been datamined TF gear, for normal and heroic. Still 6 iLvls above the regular gear. And, I think GC might have tweeted that they're looking into continuing it

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Just wanted to note that I believe the "thunderforged" gear is called sha-touched. :P

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Drudatz's Avatar
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    Anything below ilevel 522 doesnt make sense as you get 522 from shadow pan group on IoT...

  6. #6
    The Patient
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    I feel the 566 Heroic 553 Normal, 536 Flex, and 528 LFR is far more logic if they block the item upgrade for the 2 first month
    otherwise I would like something between the 2

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Drudatz View Post
    Anything below ilevel 522 doesnt make sense as you get 522 from shadow pan group on IoT...
    Well, it's LFR gear, so the people doing T16 LFR might not have gotten enough rep or valor to get the Shado-Pan gear

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans rederoin's Avatar
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    The latter.

    Having LFR gear be weaker than the valor gear from last patch does not make a lot of sense. Would make getting upgrades kinda boring to those who don't raid normal.

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  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    First model with no "thunderforged" gimmick.


  10. #10
    The best geared players have already hit 550 ilvl, and are largely geared in 549 2/2 TF gear. I don't even want to think of how T16 would be tuned against the first option - heroic gear being only five ilvls ahead of the best gear of the old tier? That basically would either mean that heroic TF geared players would enter T16 pretty much fully geared to clear the tier, or T16 gear would have to be far more powerful than its item levels suggest. I liked the clear distinction between T15 and T16, the second option would be more along those lines.

    The bigger issue is with half a dozen or so different types of gear per tier now, plus upgrades, power is going to inflate at far faster levels than ever before, but I'm not entirely sure whether that's an entirely bad thing TBH.

  11. #11
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
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    TBH flex needs to be a higher item level then it is.

    If lfr is going to be ilev 100 flex should be 112, normal 120, and heroic 133. They said flex would be closer to normal in difficulty, so the item level should be closer to normal.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    TBH flex needs to be a higher item level then it is.

    If lfr is going to be ilev 100 flex should be 112, normal 120, and heroic 133. They said flex would be closer to normal in difficulty, so the item level should be closer to normal.
    I disagree, it would be too much added pressure on N/H raiders to do flex every week. So long as the lockouts are separate Normal gear should be clearly superior.

    I say that as an LFR player who will be doing Flex raids in 5.4, and I -want- to agree with you, but being practical I think this is how it should be (or at least how it needs to be with the current model).

    Edit: I think those arguing for an ilvl squeeze (myself included) finally have a practical example of how it would benefit the game. If ilvls were squeezed it would be possible to narrow the gap between LFR/Flex and N/H while still keeping N/H ilvls clearly superior. We're at 40 ilvl gaps now, which used to be the difference between Karazhan and Sunwell; in a future expansion if ilvls were squeezed that gap could be cut in half at least.
    Last edited by hablix; 2013-06-12 at 07:09 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Slaynorth View Post
    The best geared players have already hit 550 ilvl, and are largely geared in 549 2/2 TF gear. I don't even want to think of how T16 would be tuned against the first option - heroic gear being only five ilvls ahead of the best gear of the old tier? That basically would either mean that heroic TF geared players would enter T16 pretty much fully geared to clear the tier, or T16 gear would have to be far more powerful than its item levels suggest. I liked the clear distinction between T15 and T16, the second option would be more along those lines.

    The bigger issue is with half a dozen or so different types of gear per tier now, plus upgrades, power is going to inflate at far faster levels than ever before, but I'm not entirely sure whether that's an entirely bad thing TBH.

    the biggest part heroic mode raiders shoudn't be "forced" to run flex and if flex gear is that high upgraded flex gear=heroic mode from last tier so we will have to run flex for some pieces and for tier. not to mention we will again like this tier have the ability to have progression slowed by normal mode shit drops. like not seeing a conq tier piece until 4th week of heroics when you run 2 conq healers. Go with the first make normal mode gear= or lower than heroic mode of last tier.

    normal mode should be no higher than 540 especially if they keep in upgrades.

    LFR 522-528
    flex 534-535
    normal 540
    heroic 550-558
    Last edited by momirmaster; 2013-06-12 at 07:09 PM.
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  14. #14
    Legendary! Pendra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rederoin View Post
    Having LFR gear be weaker than the valor gear from last patch does not make a lot of sense. Would make getting upgrades kinda boring to those who don't raid normal.
    I'm full valor/Nalak/Oondasta geared at the moment, thus, I have an ilvl 522 (530) in almost every slot.
    If the SoO LFR gear would be only 520, this would basically mean that there would be no upgrades for me in the whole new raid whatsoever.

    I understand that there needs to be some incentive to run the previous normals...but it still would feel a bit odd.
    Last edited by Pendra; 2013-06-12 at 07:10 PM.

  15. #15
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    The datamined ilevels are basically placeholders right now. They are often some of the last things to be tweaked too.

    I agree that LFR needs to be 525-530 or else what's the point?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    From datamining, the gear right now is 554 Heroic, 541 Normal, 527 Flex, 521 LFR, with only Normal and Heroic getting TF (or whatever they're going to call it).

    But, GC tweeted they might do 566 Heroic 553 Normal, 536 Flex, and 528 LFR.

    What's better in your eyes? Obviously a lot of people would like the 1st one, where Orgrimmar LFR gear is lower than Normal ToT so technically Normal raiders won't "have" to run LFR, and maybe Flex if they want to

    But, either way, what's kind of strange in both cases is how....low flex gear is, thought it's be closer to Normal than LFR. Maybe Flex will be easier than we thought?
    I think Flex will be easier than most people think, which is not a bad thing. Remember that because of the ability to flex the number of raiders, you can also trivialize a lot of content. This is why they won't flex normal or heroic.

    OT: I like the first listed ilevels. Keep t16 LFR below t15 normal.
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  17. #17
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
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    Guessing flex will be about like 30% Nerf raids from the past. Think dragonsoul at 30%. A joke, but still a challenge to less skilled players.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    The datamined ilevels are basically placeholders right now. They are often some of the last things to be tweaked too.

    I agree that LFR needs to be 525-530 or else what's the point?
    Why does LFR need to have a point to run for Normal/Heroic raiders? Loads of people hate running LFR in addition to normal raiding, and while I don't mind having to do it, having LFR loot be lower than ToT normal would quiet a lot of complaints

  19. #19
    This tier already feels like it's going against their whole "Meaningful rewards" philosophy that they've been championing since MoP. It looks like they're trying to put the brakes on the ilvl inflation that they let get out of hand. They sure didn't learn anything from wrath when it comes to inflation did they? If it stays the same then there's very little reason to run siege outside of seeing the story. Hopefully they buff the gear, or some items from ToT will be better than siege ones.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragashii View Post
    This tier already feels like it's going against their whole "Meaningful rewards" philosophy that they've been championing since MoP. It looks like they're trying to put the brakes on the ilvl inflation that they let get out of hand. They sure didn't learn anything from wrath when it comes to inflation did they? If it stays the same then there's very little reason to run siege outside of seeing the story. Hopefully they buff the gear, or some items from ToT will be better than siege ones.
    ......what.

    If you do Heroic raiding, Heroic SoO gear is better than Heroic ToT gear. Same with Normals. Same with LFR. Every single piece of SoO gear is better than its ToT counterpart.

    How are those not meaningful rewards?

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