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  1. #61
    Pit Lord rederoin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    It's super clear why flex can't share a lockout with any other tier, and it makes no sense for LFR to share a lockout either.

    If you really think it's worthwhile to go subject yourself to several hours of one or two 5% rolls per hour for a piece of tier 10-30 ilevel below the difficulty you're raiding then go ahead. It's not worthwhile, but not being worthwhile has never stopped a bunch of singleminded people from doing it anyway.
    Ye okay.

    But a shared lock-out with normal should be fine, either that or a 522 Ilvl~ justice vendor. Even if its just to put a stop to the whining.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by rederoin View Post
    Imo, if they really don't want to do LFR. They should just get fully geared from normal. If they need to use LFR to 'catch-up' then its their problem, they shoulden't have fallen behind.

    But really, to stop all this whining they should just make LFR share a lock-out with flex/normal or add a 522 ilvl justice vendor into the game. Or maybe both, whatever works.
    So now that you've been answered, why do you feel that SoO lfr should be higher than ToT normal? I'd guess that not only will the ilvl to get in be below 500, but this is also likely the last raid tier of this expansion.... numbers at this point are rather arbitrary, no?
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  3. #63
    Pit Lord rederoin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    So now that you've been answered, why do you feel that SoO lfr should be higher than ToT normal? I'd guess that not only will the ilvl to get in be below 500, but this is also likely the last raid tier of this expansion.... numbers at this point are rather arbitrary, no?
    I have already answered that question in this thread, so have others.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Normal should have been made flex. But whatever. It probably will be next time.
    I think this is a test run, and if flex works well, you'll see exactly that happen, as well as getting the ability to use flex raiding in hard modes.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I think this is a test run, and if flex works well, you'll see exactly that happen, as well as getting the ability to use flex raiding in hard modes.
    Yeah, honestly, I don't see any point in honoring the "race" as it currently stands. There are just so many problems with the current state of "world first" raiding as an e-sport. Blizzard would be better off sticking a needle in that balloon, for now at least.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by rederoin View Post
    I have already answered that question in this thread, so have others.
    You're not seeing tier gear at 522 from SPA vendors currently, so what's offered in SoO would be an upgrade anyhow, nevermind the fact that it will all be upgradeable. Again, it's the last tier, LFR could drop zero gear for all it matters at this stage of the expansion. I don't see what the big deal is.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 10:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Yeah, honestly, I don't see any point in honoring the "race" as it currently stands. There are just so many problems with the current state of "world first" raiding as an e-sport. Blizzard would be better off sticking a needle in that balloon, for now at least.
    Eh, players drive that sort of thing themselves. The race won't go anywhere, it will simply need to be full clears at full raid capacity.
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  7. #67
    If they stick with 554 Heroic, 541 Normal, 527 Flex, 521 LFR many people will quit. I know half of my guild (10/12H) is currently very upset about it. Heroic guilds will get a very small upgrade for massive amount of work. Zero upgrades from normal.

    Who wants to spend 10-16 (or more) hours a week raiding for 5-7 ilvls? Many heroic raiders are already ilvl 540-545 and will be 547-549 by the time the patch actually goes live. This is far above next tiers "normals". What were they thinking making them so low?
    Last edited by tyrindor; 2013-06-13 at 02:16 AM.

  8. #68
    Pit Lord rederoin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    You're not seeing tier gear at 522 from SPA vendors currently, so what's offered in SoO would be an upgrade anyhow, nevermind the fact that it will all be upgradeable. Again, it's the last tier, LFR could drop zero gear for all it matters at this stage of the expansion. I don't see what the big deal is.
    By that logic, why should any of the settings drop gear?


    It does matter, progression of your character does matter. LFR is intended for those who don't raid on normal or hc. And just like any patch, 90%+ of your gear should be upgrade-able.
    You really think blizzard will suddenly just stop catering towards the non-raiders?

    And just having 4-8~ pieces to upgrade seems a little on the low side.
    Last edited by rederoin; 2013-06-13 at 02:19 AM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by rederoin View Post
    You really think blizzard will suddenly just stop catering towards the non-raiders?
    Blizzard knows who pays to keep the lights on and it's not organized raiders.

    You know how people gripe when one or two people out of a group 25 people in LFR "leech" off of the effort of everyone else? Well, raiders are the folks who leech the development costs for their content off of everyone else.

    But, Blizzard could develop content for raiders using only their subscription fees, and raiders would get 2-boss tiers, and everyone else would get some kickass pet battles.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by rederoin View Post
    By that logic, why should any of the settings drop gear?


    It does matter, progression of your character does matter. LFR is intended for those who don't raid on normal or hc. And just like any patch, 90%+ of your gear should be upgrade-able.
    You really think blizzard will suddenly just stop catering towards the non-raiders?

    And just having 4-8~ pieces to upgrade seems a little on the low side.
    As it is now, you get 502 from LFR (upgradable), and 522 from vendors / Oon / Nalak. 521 dropping from the new LFR, and vendors (and perhaps other world bosses?) would yield 541. How is this not progress exactly? Tier set bonuses are going to make you opt for LFR pieces instead of sticking with current 522's from vendors.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 11:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    But, Blizzard could develop content for raiders using only their subscription fees, and raiders would get 2-boss tiers, and everyone else would get some kickass pet battles.
    I'm going to make a very safe assumption, and say that raiding is far more popular than pet battles are.
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  11. #71
    I don't much care for the Thunderforged bullshit. I also think the gap between LFR and normal needs to be a wee bit smaller.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I'm going to make a very safe assumption, and say that raiding is far more popular than pet battles are.
    If you mean organized raiding, which is what I meant, then pet battles have it all over "raiding."

    There are probably 300-500,000 players who have cleared at least a couple of T15 bosses on normal mode while on vent. Maybe less, maybe half that.

    Pretty sure there are 5-10x as many players who've pet battled more than once or twice.

  13. #73
    It should be
    575 heroic
    550 normal
    525 flex
    510 in LFR

    10-man should be
    550 heroic
    535 normal

  14. #74
    Herald of the Titans SL1200's Avatar
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    What you all are asking for is stupid, because you can buy 522 gear with valor points. Lfr needs to drop gear better than the 522 gear you get from a valor vendor or nobody is going to run it. Remember they said they didn't want to kill lfr otherwise they'd just deactivate it.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinachsandwich View Post
    What you all are asking for is stupid, because you can buy 522 gear with valor points. Lfr needs to drop gear better than the 522 gear you get from a valor vendor or nobody is going to run it. Remember they said they didn't want to kill lfr otherwise they'd just deactivate it.
    That's exactly what I want.

    What you say is st00pider. They would still run LFR for valor. Besides, valor gear can be adjusted if needed.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by rederoin View Post
    Normal raiders have no reason to enter LFR if it awards 528~ gear.
    Oh really? Upgrading the gear from 522 to 528 doesn't at all help out when starting up progress on SoO normal mode? Not many item levels, sure, but better gear is better gear and gives more room for error. Just keep it bellow 522, there's really no reason for it to be above it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 09:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by rederoin View Post
    Imo, if they really don't want to do LFR. They should just get fully geared from normal. If they need to use LFR to 'catch-up' then its their problem, they shoulden't have fallen behind.

    But really, to stop all this whining they should just make LFR share a lock-out with flex/normal or add a 522 ilvl justice vendor into the game. Or maybe both, whatever works.
    Or keep the LFR item level bellow the previous normal mode. Much simpler.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    the biggest part heroic mode raiders shoudn't be "forced" to run flex
    Heroic raiders aren't forced to do anything. Heroic raiders do everything they can to get better gear no matter what and they don't go on forums bitching about it.

    Heroic raiders are also pushing heroic modes the same week LFR opens its first wing, meaning that worst case scenario they might run LFR for a couple of weeks in their free time to have a small chance of getting a useful trinket, tier bonus, offset or slot they don't currently have an upgrade for anyway.

    The people complaining about being "forced" to do LFR are usually low-progressed NM raiders. Or people who frankly, probably don't even raid and just like to bitch.
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  18. #78
    Field Marshal dasmiez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by killidan View Post
    It should be
    575 heroic
    550 normal
    525 flex
    510 in LFR
    Considering how easy normal raiding is: nope.

    575 heroic
    540 normal
    535 FLEX
    530 LFR

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Oh really? Upgrading the gear from 522 to 528 doesn't at all help out when starting up progress on SoO normal mode? Not many item levels, sure, but better gear is better gear and gives more room for error. Just keep it bellow 522, there's really no reason for it to be above it.
    You mean, having a 15% chance per week of getting that piece of 528 gear, which you don't already have a NM drop or VP piece to cover that slot. Which lasts maybe a few weeks before you start getting all your NM/VP gear, by which time you're damn lucky if LFR has dropped anything for you at all that's an upgrade.

    So I'd say the benefits of LFR are very marginal even to NM raiders. Unless they're stuck on Horridon 3 months into the raid...
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    You mean, having a 15% chance per week of getting that piece of 528 gear, which you don't already have a NM drop or VP piece to cover that slot. Which lasts maybe a few weeks before you start getting all your NM/VP gear, by which time you're damn lucky if LFR has dropped anything for you at all that's an upgrade.

    So I'd say the benefits of LFR are very marginal even to NM raiders. Unless they're stuck on Horridon 3 months into the raid...
    Benefits might be small, but they are still there. They put the LFR ilvl bellow the previous tiers heroic because heroic raiders shouldn't need to feel the need to enter LFR to find any form of upgrade, so why should normal raiders need to go through that? Normal mode is a higher difficulty than LFR with better rewards. Hence it doesn't make any sense at all to ever feel any craving what so ever to enter a lower level difficulty to find a potential upgrade, thus LFR gear should always have a lower item level than the previous normal mode.

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