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  1. #1

    Why Not Normalize PvP?

    Ok, so bear with me here. First and foremost, this is merely a suggestion.

    PvP is inherently about skill, correct? So why are gear disparities allowed? Any player that comes late into a season will tell you how hard it is to gear up and become competitive. How is a win by difference in gear considered a win when it should be about one player being more skillful than another?

    Sooo, suggestion. Why not normalize PvP? When you enter a BG or arena you click some item rack that gives you all your pvp gear. Obviously this gear is the best for pvp and disappears when the match is over. Have some kind of equip all feature to save time.

    To answer the need to incentives to pvp that people might have you could easily bring in mounts, titles, tabbards, transmog gear (no stats, kinda like challenge mode gear), etc. So there is still an incentive and those that perform the best will get equivocal rewards.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Hexian View Post
    Ok, so bear with me here. First and foremost, this is merely a suggestion.

    PvP is inherently about skill, correct? So why are gear disparities allowed? Any player that comes late into a season will tell you how hard it is to gear up and become competitive. How is a win by difference in gear considered a win when it should be about one player being more skillful than another?

    Sooo, suggestion. Why not normalize PvP? When you enter a BG or arena you click some item rack that gives you all your pvp gear. Obviously this gear is the best for pvp and disappears when the match is over. Have some kind of equip all feature to save time.

    To answer the need to incentives to pvp that people might have you could easily bring in mounts, titles, tabbards, transmog gear (no stats, kinda like challenge mode gear), etc. So there is still an incentive and those that perform the best will get equivocal rewards.

    Thoughts?
    The guild wars 2-model comes to mind. Great idea but it would never work with the childish spoiled members of wow.

    Wow players are generally all about getting shiny rewards thats better or else its not worth it in their eyes.

    I would love something like this because it would remove all gear-factor in pvp which is a really good thing.

  3. #3
    Pit Lord Naxere's Avatar
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    Because Blizzard believes in keeping people on a treadmill when it comes to gear.

  4. #4
    Its probably more a case of not being able to go back. People are too used to it, removing it would cause huge backlash.

    I agree in principle that it should be the case, though. Definately for Arena.

  5. #5
    PvP is inherently about skill, correct?
    Wrong. PVP is also about the enjoyment in specing, gemming, enchanting, reforging,theorycrafting according to how you want to play, how you enjoy playing etc.

    Also skill is a vastly overated term. It suits ****-hurt players to think they are skilled when they lose and blame everything else for their defeat (i.e. I was undergeared, or I played the wrong class, my teamate sucked)
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  6. #6
    Some players enjoy destroying other players that are less powerful than they are. I feel like much of the backlash on this idea will come from players that enjoy feeling superior to others due to gear differences.

    I like your idea; however, to make it more palatable, I would suggest that item normalization be optional. Have two variations of arenas and battlegrounds, one with custom gear and one with normalized gear. Have separate ladders for each.

    If the two options were offered without differing rewards, I feel like most people would gravitate to the normalized PVP. To satisfy the people who want both kinds of PVP, Blizzard could offer incentives for joining whichever queue has the fewest people (like the rewards system for tanks and healers in LFG). Hopefully, that would allow for a good mix of players in both forms of PVP.

  7. #7
    I enjoy gearing up. I don't really do BGs with the change that makes it so Honor Gear isn't that great compared to PVE items apart from the weapon. Mainly doing it on my DKs for the Malevolent set because it looks nice. For me PVP is about getting the best gear and in general my opinion of the game as whole, gearing up and accomplishing feats. Removing the carrot would make me not really care about doing PVP much honestly. Can't even say for Unique stuff because to me atm the S14 Gear currently looks pretty bad, and some of these vanity items aren't great.

    Also Daimalakh, the problem with that is Blizzard is trying to get more people into PVP, two separate ques could cause more issues.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    Wrong. PVP is also about the enjoyment in specing, gemming, enchanting, reforging,theorycrafting according to how you want to play, how you enjoy playing etc.

    Also skill is a vastly overated term. It suits ****-hurt players to think they are skilled when they lose and blame everything else for their defeat (i.e. I was undergeared, or I played the wrong class, my teamate sucked)
    PvP is about enjoyment end of story, you state that its not about skill, when for some people it is, some people hate the speccing, gemming etc and would love a change like this other would dislike it.

    If speccing, gemming, enchanting, reforging and theory crafting floats your boat good for you but don't assume other like it.

    And skill when actually used correctly is not an over rated term at all, all people have different ability levels when playing and that will never change.

    And a change like this would remove the artifical help people with less ability aka skill get from having better gear ie they would play and succeed or fail by there own abilities.

    And also the guy you quoted was meaning skill from the point of view of its one players ability verses anothers its random some what and is based of reaction time for one player to react to the action of another.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Erenax View Post
    Because Blizzard believes in keeping people on a treadmill when it comes to gear.
    I still think it's possible to incentivize PVP grinds with Titles, Mounts and other purely cosmetic rewards. Not sure if Blizzard will have the guts to try it though.

    Agreed 100% with the notion that PVP shouldn't have the gear power variable anymore. GW2 system ftw. PVP is inherently fun and I don't think needs rewards for the majority of players. When I play any sort of PVP game be it an RTS or FPS if I feel that my opponent has an upper hand on me just because he grinded out better guns or units for 3 months and I can't even compete until I do the same - I quit that game very quickly. I will return to WoW and PVP my heart out when they remove the gear bullshit.
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    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral nerdjames's Avatar
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    People have asked about this. Many high-end players agree the game would be better off without the gear variable. Blizzard's stance, however, is that they want gear to be a factor. Not sure if they're afraid of players quitting once they remove the proverbial carrot, but basically it's not going to happen. Sadface.

  11. #11
    I can fix the gear treadmill and ganking in one go. Make all PvP attacks and healing do % based damage (track PvP and PvE damage seperately). If my attack does 8-10% max health per hit, it should hit a level 1 character with 100 health for 8-10 damage and a level 90 character with 500k health for 40-50k damage. Skill now rules PvP.

  12. #12
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    This is an MMO.
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  13. #13
    And skill when actually used correctly is not an over rated term at all, all people have different ability levels when playing and that will never change.
    First example that came into my head regarding skill.

    There was someone at trade advertising "XXX guild is looking for skilled members to join our ranks. Current progress 3/12 normal"
    I replied to him "I consider myself pretty average player, definately not skilled, and my progress is 11/12. Are you sure you are using the term correctly?"
    He didn't reply but he did remove the term skill 10 minutes later from his advertisement.

    On topic, in PVP, I still consider myself an average player. Yet I've beaten gladiators, arena masters, RBG heroes, rank ones, people that consider themselves "skilled".

    I stand by my point - that skill is an overated term because it is a convenient excuse to blame something else other than ourselves when we fail.
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    The problem is warriors are not easy to kill like we were in cata and people are mad at that
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Brian may answer differently, but I would say mages are hard to counter for average players but easy for great players.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Hexian View Post
    Sooo, suggestion. Why not normalize PvP? When you enter a BG or arena you click some item rack that gives you all your pvp gear. Obviously this gear is the best for pvp and disappears when the match is over. Have some kind of equip all feature to save time.
    If it were up to me to design PvP for WoW, this is what i would do:

    I would make it so that the ilvl cap in instanced PvP increased a little bit each week for the entire PvP season. To stay at that cap, you could PvP, raid, farm Valor gear...whatever you wanted. I'd get rid of PvP specific gear except transmog stuff and maybe the "break out" trinket. I would consolidate all the Justice/Valor/Honor/Conquest points into just Valor points. PvPing would award Valor points and, depending on your rating, you might have a small chance at winning an appropriate raid gear token on wins.

    I'd also merge random BGs back with rated BGs and use people's personal rating to help form appropriate PUG teams. Theoretically, this would filter all the AFKers and bots to the bottom, away from actual players.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreeshak View Post
    First example that came into my head regarding skill.

    There was someone at trade advertising "XXX guild is looking for skilled members to join our ranks. Current progress 3/12 normal"
    I replied to him "I consider myself pretty average player, definately not skilled, and my progress is 11/12. Are you sure you are using the term correctly?"
    He didn't reply but he did remove the term skill 10 minutes later from his advertisement.


    On topic, in PVP, I still consider myself an average player. Yet I've beaten gladiators, arena masters, RBG heroes, rank ones, people that consider themselves "skilled".

    I stand by my point - that skill is an overated term because it is a convenient excuse to blame something else other than ourselves when we fail.
    Don't you get it? They wanted better players to have actual progress.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hexian View Post
    Ok, so bear with me here. First and foremost, this is merely a suggestion.

    PvP is inherently about skill, correct? So why are gear disparities allowed? Any player that comes late into a season will tell you how hard it is to gear up and become competitive. How is a win by difference in gear considered a win when it should be about one player being more skillful than another?

    Sooo, suggestion. Why not normalize PvP? When you enter a BG or arena you click some item rack that gives you all your pvp gear. Obviously this gear is the best for pvp and disappears when the match is over. Have some kind of equip all feature to save time.

    To answer the need to incentives to pvp that people might have you could easily bring in mounts, titles, tabbards, transmog gear (no stats, kinda like challenge mode gear), etc. So there is still an incentive and those that perform the best will get equivocal rewards.

    Thoughts?
    If it happens in PvP it should be the same in PvE. I should get a rack or whatever giving me all the gear because it has to do with skill.

  17. #17
    If you want normalized PvP, go play chess or battleship.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    If it happens in PvP it should be the same in PvE. I should get a rack or whatever giving me all the gear because it has to do with skill.
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  19. #19
    Brewmaster Naztrak's Avatar
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    pretty much this

    The guild wars 2-model comes to mind. Great idea but it would never work with the childish spoiled members of wow.

    Wow players are generally all about getting shiny rewards thats better or else its not worth it in their eyes.

    I would love something like this because it would remove all gear-factor in pvp which is a really good thing.
    with the large part of the pvp community being like that no wonder the pvp part of the game fals. you just cant hop into wow pvp from the basics, you have to lv up, gear, buy stuff get more gear and then play; and thats the point when people ether wont play or just go lfr mode

    If it happens in PvP it should be the same in PvE. I should get a rack or whatever giving me all the gear because it has to do with skill.
    gear in pvp is an necessity, in pve it is a reward

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    The guild wars 2-model comes to mind. Great idea but it would never work with the childish spoiled members of wow.

    Wow players are generally all about getting shiny rewards thats better or else its not worth it in their eyes.

    I would love something like this because it would remove all gear-factor in pvp which is a really good thing.
    Because GW2 is doing oh so well rofl.

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