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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    Honestly, it didn't take much to get to honored with any of the factions to be able to grab the key. More often than not, if you did every quest in that particular zone, you probably were already honored. There was very little grinding involved with entering any heroic dungeon in TBC. The problem with dungeons has everything to do with LFG. LFG eliminated the daily lockout and demanded the difficulty stay simple in exchange for convenience.
    It originally required revered to get the heroic keys. It was reduced to honored quite a bit later.
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    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  2. #202
    Easily but I doubt blizzard will ever to come up with one. It's so easy if you just have imagination, you can do many things in real life to get you things let alone a fantasy game. I really think this game can still expand massively if they focus on making more tech for the game to allow better innovations, that was always the step blizzard needed.

    I remember once when blizzard said WoW was communist and damn it sure looks like communism with the state of the game. No room to be inspired, no point to improve, just bleh. All they needed was new tech for a robust world people where could roam free and face challenges.

  3. #203
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    Why do you need "gear"?

    Contrary to popular belief, equipment is the means, not the end. If you aren't doing activities that require high level equipment, you don't need it.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Heh. PvE gear is now much superior to PvP gear in world PvP.
    Two qualifications to that comment: "much superior" maybe if you're wearing full heroic thunderforged which almost nobody is, and world PvP = who the fuck cares.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 05:18 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    What's that phrase gankers like to use so much? "Wold PvP isn't fair." I believe.

    Besides, only the best PvE gear is better than PvP gear. Most people are in LFR gear or worse, drastically inferior to PvP gear.
    Eh, LFR and PVP gear are roughly the same. The truth is that gear doesn't make a huge difference in PVP anymore one way or the other, no matter what all the whiners say.

    And in world PVP 99% of the fight is who gets the drop on who, like you were saying.
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    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
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  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    It originally required revered to get the heroic keys. It was reduced to honored quite a bit later.
    Hm. Yep. Hadn't hit 70 before the change. Disregard previous statement.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Varyk View Post
    Contrary to popular belief, equipment is the means, not the end. If you aren't doing activities that require high level equipment, you don't need it.
    Need and want get interchanged quite a lot, and people focus in on words that mean more than the other. No one needs anything in a video game, people want. But there are a varied level of wants everyone has, I thought that kind of was the underlying understanding. People have done it forever now as well. Taking gear as a progression is probably a good example of something that would be detrimental to many aspects of the game, removing it more than likely removing a lot of the fluff to your character.

    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    Hm. Yep. Hadn't hit 70 before the change. Disregard previous statement.
    Why disregard it? It wasn't the last patch of the expansion, and it sure wasn't a bad one. It tied in well with leveling, and completing a zone for reputation.
    Last edited by PenguinChan; 2013-06-18 at 05:25 AM.
    Hearts are man kinds lock. If only everyone's emotions were a skeleton key, this world would be a happier place.

  7. #207
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    Half-year or so after release D3 got Paragon Levels, and people's interest to the game started to slowly come back. But according to your logic - Paragon Levels are mistake, as you don't need them to kill Diablo Inferno?
    Yes.
    I don't understand the whole grind thing in D-III at all. Why am I supposed to grind if there's no content that requires the gear?
    It's pointless. Uuh I can slay Diablo-Inferno faster with moar gear and moar paragon levels... WAYNE.

    And that is why I stopped playing the game after I was done.

    At one point I'd wonder what would happen if Kittyvicious suggestion would come true exactly as (s)he wrote and even moreso - so that raid gear would be completely useless outside current raids (having zero stats when not in current raid). Why? Raiders need gear exclusively for raids, so let them. But I am sure that such change would cause big revolt from raiders. But maybe then they'd understand how people feel when most of character progression is locked behind raids, with immense difference in combat capabilities between raider and non-raider.
    I have non raiding alts. I know full well how it feels.

    And I also know that once you reach approx. Item level 500 everything is peachy. You don't need Heroic level gear. You can have it in the next content patch when it is outdated. Until then, your 522 valor stuff will suffice and allow you to roflstomp everything in the open world anyway.
    And don't even START with the itemization thing. You do not have to care one bit about Itemization (other than enough hit), theorycrafting etc. Why? Because: NOT RELEVANT TO YOUR PLAYSTYLE.

    Contrary to popular belief, equipment is the means, not the end.
    Well since gear is the only way to progress after max level, non raiding folks need.. something to look forward to. But I think they got enough as it is now.

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  8. #208
    The Lightbringer The Caretaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    It's not that hard. I just did the first solo scenario there on my SPriest (ilvl 458).
    I dinged my Elemental shaman last night and did all of the scenarios from the mid 440's. That said, they were pretty challenging in places and I dread to think what would happen to a new player who tried it.
    Last edited by The Caretaker; 2013-06-18 at 08:28 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

  9. #209
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varyk View Post
    Why do you need "gear"?

    Contrary to popular belief, equipment is the means, not the end. If you aren't doing activities that require high level equipment, you don't need it.
    If that were true, heroic raids would stop raiding the second they killed the final heroic tier boss.

    Obviously, whatever gear they had was good enough, so why need more?


    Yeaaaah...
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  10. #210
    The Lightbringer The Caretaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varyk View Post
    Why do you need "gear"?

    Contrary to popular belief, equipment is the means, not the end. If you aren't doing activities that require high level equipment, you don't need it.
    Players like to see their characters develop. When you hit the level cap, gear is the sole way in which you can do this; as a result, everyone "needs" gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

  11. #211
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    If that were true, heroic raids would stop raiding the second they killed the final heroic tier boss.

    Obviously, whatever gear they had was good enough, so why need more?
    Simple: to get maximum gear possible in order to get an edge over the competition when NEWER, HARDER content comes out.

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Adorable Miqo'te - (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  12. #212
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    If that were true, heroic raids would stop raiding the second they killed the final heroic tier boss.

    Obviously, whatever gear they had was good enough, so why need more?


    Yeaaaah...
    If its the last tier of an expansion some guilds will stop since they dont need more gear to beat everything.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    so why need more?
    You keep raiding and gearing up in order to prepare for the next level of content. It also helps to keep the guild and the people active.

    That said, even if for the guilds and many of the players gear is merely a tool, some players also perceive it as the heart of their own character progression.

  14. #214
    Stood in the Fire Caribald's Avatar
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    TBC 5 man dungeons. You start with normals, you get gear and rep and move on to heroics. There are heroics that are harder than others. Sometimes you get a gem slightly better than what you have already. Attunement quests that make the transition from 5-mans to raids make sense.

    Too bad 5-mans are cleared by anyone with a pulse in gear from the previous expansion today :/
    My old solo stuff can be seen on Twitch and Youtube

  15. #215
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deldavala View Post
    If its the last tier of an expansion some guilds will stop since they dont need more gear to beat everything.
    Some? Maybe.

    Most. No.

    Obviously, "seeing the content" is not the end-all.

    And honestly, if they "segmented" raids with loot drops so that you'd need to farm the start of the raid to have good enough gear for the middle part, and then farm the middle part to have good enough gear for the end, people would QQ in mass about "gating" and "artificially lengthening content."

    People often point to "casuals" detracting from raids somehow... honestly though, many people who call themselves "raiders" also contribute to "watering down" the raiding experience. I guess we could call them... "tryhards," to separate them from the nice, non-whiny raiders.

    Who do you think were the people that complained about heroic dungeons being an unnecessary, time consuming gate in cataclysm? The "I shouldn't have to spend X amount of time in heroic dungeons with peasants just so I can raid" crowd. Those are tryhards.

    Who do you think want raiding tiers that both take a long time to complete, yet allow constant progression AND immediate accessibility? The "remember when you had to progress linearly through tiers? Those were the days" people that then instantly turn around and complain about "having" (note the quotations) to run previous LFR tiers to be "competitive." Probably a tryhard.

    I'd contend they're the main problem with raiding right now. Casuals will just do whatever comes down the pipes. LFR was that "whatever" at the end of Cataclysm. People didn't beg for it, Blizzard just decided to instate it. Non-tryhard raiders are happy to go about their normal and heroic modes progressing at whatever rate they can. But tryhards whine that raids are too easy to access, and then whine when they take a decent amount of time to complete.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-06-18 at 08:51 AM.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  16. #216
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    Kaleredar is right...
    about those wannabe Tryhards™.

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Adorable Miqo'te - (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  17. #217
    The Patient
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    I think they plan to leverage Proving Grounds to be a gearing path for casuals too. Just my thought but, its either that or scale down players to run old dungeons for special non-raid end-game gear!

  18. #218
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    about those wannabe Tryhards™.
    Kaleredar's signature is not intended to be a factual statement. Kaleredar assumes no liability in claims to his "rightness." Claims of "right" should never be interpreted to refer to anything, up to and including the opposite of left. Living by the words "Kaleredar is right" is, likewise, not intended to be a factual statement, or even recommended; not for readers of the words, and certainly not for Kaleredar. Kaleredar's assumptions of "right" may not coincide with yours. Your results may vary.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  19. #219
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    But I do agree with the fact that it's Individuals with twisted and torn memories of the "former glory days" that hurt the game the most.

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Adorable Miqo'te - (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  20. #220
    Field Marshal carlosanjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caribald View Post
    TBC 5 man dungeons. You start with normals, you get gear and rep and move on to heroics. There are heroics that are harder than others. Sometimes you get a gem slightly better than what you have already. Attunement quests that make the transition from 5-mans to raids make sense.

    Too bad 5-mans are cleared by anyone with a pulse in gear from the previous expansion today :/
    what happens today is pretty mutch based on the feedback players give, ppl wanted WoW to be alt friendly, therefore you need faster gearing progress. Ppl claim that GC and blizz and w/e dont care about what people say. But the thing is you cant please 2 w/o unpleasing atleast 1.

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