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  1. #21
    Getting orbs via passive is something that I can get behind and the other things op suggested are not bad either.

    I always think that shadows and darkness are something that looms over you and feels that they are getting larger and would fit the whole shadow and mind thing perfectly.

    I also saw that one raid boss had something like Shadow Word: Bane and it was something like a dot that spreads to new target after it damages you or something. Could be something new for shadow priests and would fit with the spreading like plague and could get stronger or give you buff like stronger mind sear for every target that has SW: Bane. This of course that it would not be something to use in single target. Maybe make it overwrite SW: Pain too.

    SW: Pain for single target. No changes
    SW: Bane for multi target. Is weaker on 1-2 targets, but having more targets is a dps plus when using something like mind sear. Instead spawns shadow critters or something that explode on contact for small aoe-damage.


    Got maybe little too excited about this

  2. #22
    I personally hate the idea of us becoming Paladins with the whole Shadow Orbs as a secondary resource thing. I loved my Cataclysm spriest, and while there is so many areas where Shadow could be improved upon I cant help but feel like using Orbs as a resource is incredibly boring and adds nothing innovative to a spec that was once an incredibly original one.

  3. #23
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
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    A note: nearly all discussion in this post is about PvE. Assume PvE unless otherwise specified. I do not PvP.

    ==Black Shield==

    I feel that Shadow's PvE defensive utility is gutted by these changes. (Although, it's kinda gutted on live, too...) Black Shield, while amazing for the interrupt immunity in PvP is a bit useless in a raid setting. Lose a global AND 3 orbs for a... what, 130-160k shield? If we're fully buffed in heroic raid gear? Admittedly, there's still the personal healing from Mind War and Vampiric Embrace, but the Black Shield and its extreme cost is a poor trade for on-demand 100k PW:Shields plus Binding Heal.

    (For the purpose of comparative numbers, I'm going to assume the following buffed stats: 490k health, 34k spellpower, 30% haste, 25% crit, 30% mastery. This is hopefully close to a BiS normal-mode set.)

    Perhaps a glyph of Black Shield which causes it to effect up to 6 friendly targets, but not grant the immunities and only block 55% of spellpower per orb per target? This would absorb about 340k total, making it pretty significant if used in time with big raid damage spikes. Compare to Mind War (I am assuming this is the ideal DPS usage) which would heal 159k HP and deal 303k damage.

    ==Mind War==

    I notice that the DPeT of Mind War is only ~79k. This is... pretty low for a finisher. Unless we're planning to rework quite a few other mechanics, that's not really high enough to fit into a rotation given the costs (immobility, delaying DoTs and Mind Blast, etc.). The way I see it, we can either slap some mechanic on that will make its DPeT higher in PvE, or try to make sure such a low DPeT has a place in PvE. I think the simplest solution would be the first. Let Mind War inflict a debuff 'Weakened Mind' on foes when the channel completes if the target is still in range and line of sight. Weakened Mind grants 40% spell haste to Mind War channels cast by the priest on the target for 2 minutes. This is a magic debuff and is dispellable. This wouldn't increase the DPS value of an orb much, but it would bring the DPeT up to 110k, much more worth committing to 2.75sec of immobility for.

    ==Despair==

    How would this scale to fewer than 3 orbs? What is the intended niche of this spell (PvE)?

    I can see this being useful snare utility on the few fights which snares matter for, and also good for things like soloing, 5mans, etc. However, I don't think we can allow the full movement slow to apply with less than 3 orbs for PvP reasons. Here's my proposed clarification: It starts at the same slow and increases to its maximum over the same duration (20% base +[2.5|6.25|9.875]%/sec) and caps at [40|70|99]%. This would allow the priest to keep higher uptime of a weaker snare up, if desired, albeit at the cost of always sitting at fewer orbs. This way the snare can be used in PvE without such a great cost.

    ==Psychic Horror==

    As is normal for WoW, you never mentioned this in regard to PvE. It's a shame that spells like this one are simply nonfunctional in PvE. I think we could change this, and create another option for Shadow priests to offer defensive utility.

    Against targets permanently immune to Disarms, Psychic Horror instead reduces all physical damage the target deals by 30% for 8sec, or until it has prevented a total of 440% of Spellpower as damage in this way. This would mitigate about 150k damage (possibly all from one strike if used on a big enough hit) making it a powerful protective ability even on raid bosses. This would be strategically interesting for huge tank smashes, or simply a way for Shadow priests to assist struggling healers, as the HPeT of the ability is quite high (130k).

    ==Fade==

    Fade is now a good deal worse for Shadow than it was before. This might be acceptable, but I thought it should be mentioned. The cooldown is longer and it now costs an orb. This doesn't effect good raids much, but most of the PvE population (casual or non-raiders) would feel the nerf. This is also an indirect nerf to the Glyph of Fade. I suggest making Fade not consume an orb if cast while above 90% HP. This rewards skillful preemptive fading in PvE, and shouldn't break PvP, as I understand it the ability would be used reactively to being focused on.

    ==Void Shift==

    Oh ye gods the griefing.

    That said, I approve. I'm sure the antics will be very entertaining. Nice spell!

    ==Other==

    I have some glyph ideas to share around.

    Glyph of Desperate Prayer (new): your Desperate Prayer may now be cast on a friendly target, healing each of you for half the amount.
    Glyph of Mind War (new): your Mind War no longer heals you directly, and instead causes all healing the target receives to also heal you. This, I think, would lead to some rather interesting gameplay in PvP. It shouldn't have much effect in PvE of any kind, but it's still amusing.
    Glyph of Black Shield (new): (Mentioned above) your Black Shield no longer grants immunity to silence and interrupt effects, but it now effects up to 6 party or raid members within 20 yards, absorbing 55% of spellpower per orb per target.
    Glyph of Despair (new): your Despair now always consumes only 1 shadow orb, instead of up to 3.
    Glyph of Dark Binding: you can now cast Prayer of Mending and Renew. (Amounts to basically the same effect as before.)
    Glyph of Reflective Shield: now also applies to Black Shield on you. (Amounts to basically the same effect as before.)

    Notably, some of the new mechanics should interact with talents, and some talents need updating due to your proposed changes.

    Desperate Prayer obviously needs a replacement talent. Here's my suggestion: Starshards - Rains starshards down on the enemy target's head, causing 22% of spellpower as Arcane damage per second for 6 sec, and healing you equal to the damage dealt. Channeled, Arcane school.

    This spell's utility is twofold. In keeping with this talent tier's defensive theme, it obviously allows on-demand healing, by basically converting 50% of Mind Flay's DPS to self healing instead (not trying to imply that it would replace Mind Flay; it would not.). By tying the healing to damage dealt, we allow it to become a bit situational relative to the other talents; it fluctuates based on damage buffs or debuffs. This also offers a much more proactive option to health management than Angelic Bulwark, and offers PvP players a (weak) response to shadow-school interrupts. This talent would obviously need an alternate form (like how Divine Insight works) for healing priests, as it's pretty much worthless for them.

    In case anyone is wondering why stars or arcane, this is a throwback to a near-identical spell Nelf priests used to have pre-3.0. It too did shitty damage and was inexplicably arcane. The healing is new though.

    Solace and Insanity no longer has a spell to hook into, but Mind War now behaves pretty much the same way. I think it would be okay to let Shadow just have Solace from this talent. An instant cast 60k damage-and-healing spell would be well-worth casting, as it's much higher DPeT than Mind Flay, even if you don't value the healing (as many PvE priests do not.) The healing shouldn't be too OP in PvP, as it's on a 10sec cooldown, and would be reduced by the damage target's resilience.

    Body and Soul should trigger off of the new Void Swap, to remain consistent with the fact that it works on Life Grip. It should also trigger off the primary target of Black Shield, since PW:S is gone for Shadow.

  4. #24
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    First off, I love your post

    Quote Originally Posted by espoire View Post

    ==Black Shield==

    I feel that Shadow's PvE defensive utility is gutted by these changes. (Although, it's kinda gutted on live, too...) Black Shield, while amazing for the interrupt immunity in PvP is a bit useless in a raid setting. Lose a global AND 3 orbs for a... what, 130-160k shield? If we're fully buffed in heroic raid gear? Admittedly, there's still the personal healing from Mind War and Vampiric Embrace, but the Black Shield and its extreme cost is a poor trade for on-demand 100k PW:Shields plus Binding Heal.

    (For the purpose of comparative numbers, I'm going to assume the following buffed stats: 490k health, 34k spellpower, 30% haste, 25% crit, 30% mastery. This is hopefully close to a BiS normal-mode set.)

    Perhaps a glyph of Black Shield which causes it to effect up to 6 friendly targets, but not grant the immunities and only block 55% of spellpower per orb per target? This would absorb about 340k total, making it pretty significant if used in time with big raid damage spikes. Compare to Mind War (I am assuming this is the ideal DPS usage) which would heal 159k HP and deal 303k damage.

    Black Shield definitely needs to be stronger, I agree - Ice Barrier is like 370% of spellpower or so, and it costs the mage nothing and lasts a full minute, with a lower effective cooldown than Black Shield (3 orbs). On the one hand though, we need to steer away from being expected to roll Black Shields on someone (like a tank, or enemy kill targets) - so I want it to be powerful, but largely a utility spell not a "healing" spell. I think I have a solution to this:

    Black Shield - costs 3 Shadow Orbs - instant cast - Applies Weakened Soul. Shields the priest for 50% of max health (Ice Barrier is like 40%), or a friendly target for 25% of max health, while Black Shield lasts the ally is immune to spell pushback, interrupts and silences. 15 second duration. When used on an enemy target, absorbs 25% of max health in healing and returns absorbed healing to the priest instead.

    The 50% for self, or 25% for ally bit means we have a big incentive to use it as a self-shield, but it can also be used as a solid emergency shield on low health teammates - much in the same way as Power Word: Shield is already used, but with greater effect (since we won't have any heals to follow-up as we do now). The pushback, interrupt and silence benefit makes it a strong pvp choice when we must get some casts off - but doing so (since it will eat 3 orbs) means we will lose a finisher. The necrotic strike-like effect means we have a powerful and unique offensive use for it, but again it costs us actual damage - if you are out of CC on the enemy healer, your kill target is low, but you don't think you can Mind War them down through the heals - this lets us Black Shield our kill target, then re-CC the healer, and finish them off without a finisher. That's a pretty cool choice IMO. If this was considered too strong though, I'd say - give is a 5 second silence effect as well, but put it on a shared 45 second cooldown with Silence. This makes it an Empowered Silence (silence + necrotic strike) as a finishing move - that would be pretty neat as well.



    ==Mind War==

    I notice that the DPeT of Mind War is only ~79k. This is... pretty low for a finisher. Unless we're planning to rework quite a few other mechanics, that's not really high enough to fit into a rotation given the costs (immobility, delaying DoTs and Mind Blast, etc.). The way I see it, we can either slap some mechanic on that will make its DPeT higher in PvE, or try to make sure such a low DPeT has a place in PvE. I think the simplest solution would be the first. Let Mind War inflict a debuff 'Weakened Mind' on foes when the channel completes if the target is still in range and line of sight. Weakened Mind grants 40% spell haste to Mind War channels cast by the priest on the target for 2 minutes. This is a magic debuff and is dispellable. This wouldn't increase the DPS value of an orb much, but it would bring the DPeT up to 110k, much more worth committing to 2.75sec of immobility for.

    Ya the DPET on Mind War might be too low, but I figured that would be adjusted after the other effects were put into place. But, let's do some math:
    If you have 40k spellpower, 35% haste, 35% mastery, 25% crit - then your Mind War ticks for 55k per tick (40k * 1.1 spellpower * 1.25 Shadowform), casts in 3 seconds, has a 35% chance to double tick from mastery - that means (50k * (5 ticks * 1.35 mastery = 6.75) * 1.25 crit) / 3 seconds = 154,688 DPS. When you tack on dots/apparitions, that's not too bad, but it could still definitely benefit from some tweaking: Blizzard would want to do that themselves though.


    ==Despair==

    How would this scale to fewer than 3 orbs? What is the intended niche of this spell (PvE)?

    I can see this being useful snare utility on the few fights which snares matter for, and also good for things like soloing, 5mans, etc. However, I don't think we can allow the full movement slow to apply with less than 3 orbs for PvP reasons. Here's my proposed clarification: It starts at the same slow and increases to its maximum over the same duration (20% base +[2.5|6.25|9.875]%/sec) and caps at [40|70|99]%. This would allow the priest to keep higher uptime of a weaker snare up, if desired, albeit at the cost of always sitting at fewer orbs. This way the snare can be used in PvE without such a great cost.

    Actually, I envisioned Despair being the higher damage spell over Mind War - for PvP Mind War has multiple advantages in that it heals for a non-trivial amount and deals all of its damage in half the time Despair works. Despair doesn't heal, and because it deals ramp-up damage over the duration - it gives healers plenty of warning to dispel it before the final ticks (which I envisioned ticking pretty hard). It was because of this weakness that I figured Despair needs an extra-powerful snare effect to make it worthwhile (and also, Shadow needs a snare which is not channeled). Because of the low possibility for uptime on Despair (10 seconds every ~25-30, longer in PvP) it could also be an option to make it a 30/50/70% (1/2/3 orbs) snare for the full duration - so the damage ramps-up but the snare is static.


    ==Psychic Horror==

    As is normal for WoW, you never mentioned this in regard to PvE. It's a shame that spells like this one are simply nonfunctional in PvE. I think we could change this, and create another option for Shadow priests to offer defensive utility.

    Against targets permanently immune to Disarms, Psychic Horror instead reduces all physical damage the target deals by 30% for 8sec, or until it has prevented a total of 440% of Spellpower as damage in this way. This would mitigate about 150k damage (possibly all from one strike if used on a big enough hit) making it a powerful protective ability even on raid bosses. This would be strategically interesting for huge tank smashes, or simply a way for Shadow priests to assist struggling healers, as the HPeT of the ability is quite high (130k).

    I like it


    ==Fade==

    Fade is now a good deal worse for Shadow than it was before. This might be acceptable, but I thought it should be mentioned. The cooldown is longer and it now costs an orb. This doesn't effect good raids much, but most of the PvE population (casual or non-raiders) would feel the nerf. This is also an indirect nerf to the Glyph of Fade. I suggest making Fade not consume an orb if cast while above 90% HP. This rewards skillful preemptive fading in PvE, and shouldn't break PvP, as I understand it the ability would be used reactively to being focused on.

    It's a great fix for PvE, but questionable for PvP - one of the things I frequently did with pre-nerf Fade was Fade as soon as I was 40 yards from my opponent so that I'd have a GCD or two to get DoTs up before the Charge / Death Grip / Deep Freeze. I guess that's probably not a huge deal though for PvP - especcially once we go squish harder than mages or locks (even if all my changes were implemented, we'd still be ideal kill targets).


    ==Void Shift==

    Oh ye gods the griefing.

    That said, I approve. I'm sure the antics will be very entertaining. Nice spell!

    People complain just as much already about Life Grip into Kills-You + Dispersion, the key is to not make priests angry at you! A much cooler use in PvE would be Void Shifting someone who was going to die, and then Dispersing. We could also make:

    Glyph of Void Shift - teleports the priest to the targets location, but no longer teleports the target to the priests former location. So it just becomes some kind of Shadowy...Shadowstep


    ==Other==

    I have some glyph ideas to share around.

    Glyph of Desperate Prayer (new): your Desperate Prayer may now be cast on a friendly target, healing each of you for half the amount.
    Glyph of Mind War (new): your Mind War no longer heals you directly, and instead causes all healing the target receives to also heal you. This, I think, would lead to some rather interesting gameplay in PvP. It shouldn't have much effect in PvE of any kind, but it's still amusing.
    Glyph of Black Shield (new): (Mentioned above) your Black Shield no longer grants immunity to silence and interrupt effects, but it now effects up to 6 party or raid members within 20 yards, absorbing 55% of spellpower per orb per target.
    Glyph of Despair (new): your Despair now always consumes only 1 shadow orb, instead of up to 3.
    Glyph of Dark Binding: you can now cast Prayer of Mending and Renew. (Amounts to basically the same effect as before.)
    Glyph of Reflective Shield: now also applies to Black Shield on you. (Amounts to basically the same effect as before.)

    Glyph of Mind War I think I covered in a revised Black Shield, in PvP I think having Mind War be a powerful burst-ish spell, block enemy healing, and potentially heal us (through redirected enemy heals) would make it too strong for things like Shatterplay where the self-healing isn't really needed. I'd also like to avoid Dark Binding if possible, while we should heal ourselves (since we're kind of vampires), I want to really shy away from healing support and leave that to the rets and druids. Just giving us Purify and good abilities is going to be all the support we need I think - and be a much more distinct niche for spriests/shamans. Apart from that though, I like all of them - especcially Glyph of Reflective Shield - it would be so great One of the coolest things about Reflective Shield would be in a tough PvE fight, if we were going to have to pretty much Black Shield ourselves on cooldown or get sat for locks and mages who have Sacrificial Pact / Ice Barrier, this would allow us to gain at least some damage out of the process of consuming our orbs.


    Notably, some of the new mechanics should interact with talents, and some talents need updating due to your proposed changes.

    Definitely, Solace and Insanity being a big one - we could make it work with Shadow Word: Despair if we were lazy, but since Despair would become situational, a better solution would be to come up with something else I think.


    Desperate Prayer obviously needs a replacement talent. Here's my suggestion: Starshards - Rains starshards down on the enemy target's head, causing 22% of spellpower as Arcane damage per second for 6 sec, and healing you equal to the damage dealt. Channeled, Arcane school.

    This spell's utility is twofold. In keeping with this talent tier's defensive theme, it obviously allows on-demand healing, by basically converting 50% of Mind Flay's DPS to self healing instead (not trying to imply that it would replace Mind Flay; it would not.). By tying the healing to damage dealt, we allow it to become a bit situational relative to the other talents; it fluctuates based on damage buffs or debuffs. This also offers a much more proactive option to health management than Angelic Bulwark, and offers PvP players a (weak) response to shadow-school interrupts. This talent would obviously need an alternate form (like how Divine Insight works) for healing priests, as it's pretty much worthless for them.

    In case anyone is wondering why stars or arcane, this is a throwback to a near-identical spell Nelf priests used to have pre-3.0. It too did shitty damage and was inexplicably arcane. The healing is new though.

    I think I'd like something more akin to Glyph of Flame Shock, rather than a channel - too much of our survivability already is dependent on peels from teammates, we could use something that was built into an instant, like Glyph of Corruption (0.5% of max hp per tick), but for Shadow Word: Pain. Not that I wouldn't like to see Starshards graphic return to us somehow


    Solace and Insanity no longer has a spell to hook into, but Mind War now behaves pretty much the same way. I think it would be okay to let Shadow just have Solace from this talent. An instant cast 60k damage-and-healing spell would be well-worth casting, as it's much higher DPeT than Mind Flay, even if you don't value the healing (as many PvE priests do not.) The healing shouldn't be too OP in PvP, as it's on a 10sec cooldown, and would be reduced by the damage target's resilience.

    Ya that's a simple fix that works well enough, we could come up with something more unique though


    Body and Soul should trigger off of the new Void Swap, to remain consistent with the fact that it works on Life Grip. It should also trigger off the primary target of Black Shield, since PW:S is gone for Shadow.

    Good idea
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-06-19 at 03:05 AM.
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  5. #25
    pretty slick ideas imo..


    maybe i missed something though, it's late. mind blast still give an orb? - doesnt say that i'm curious, that would solve my issue with regen.


    something about the despair doesnt sit right.. transferring an 8 sec effect to a dispeller seems a bit crazy :[.

    cool ideas on the whole though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  6. #26
    I would really like to have a minor glyph for devouring plague to let us always have wings!

  7. #27
    I guess old rogues Hit and Run will be great for priest mobility instead of Spectral guise...
    Hit and Run
    30 yd range
    Instant 45 sec cooldown
    Immediately teleport to a targeted location, leaving a shadow of yourself behind. Upon activating the effect a second time, or after 10 sec, you will return to your shadow's location.

  8. #28
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justs View Post
    I guess old rogues Hit and Run will be great for priest mobility instead of Spectral guise...
    Hit and Run
    30 yd range
    Instant 45 sec cooldown
    Immediately teleport to a targeted location, leaving a shadow of yourself behind. Upon activating the effect a second time, or after 10 sec, you will return to your shadow's location.
    Ooh, that is an interesting idea!
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Justs View Post
    I guess old rogues Hit and Run will be great for priest mobility instead of Spectral guise...
    Hit and Run
    30 yd range
    Instant 45 sec cooldown
    Immediately teleport to a targeted location, leaving a shadow of yourself behind. Upon activating the effect a second time, or after 10 sec, you will return to your shadow's location.
    Love this idea as well! Anything to be trained less would be awesome, but I guess the issue would be balancing around having it.

  10. #30
    The Patient
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    You still use Shadow Orbs? ugh so unfun.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by mindp View Post
    You still use Shadow Orbs? ugh so unfun.
    To be honest, a resource is a resource is a resource. I think ultimately you'd want a 'gather resource/spend resource' system and whether it takes the form of energy or shadow orbs - the fundamentals are the same.

    I think I like a 'tighter' resource pool (5-10 units) and a quicker 'ebb and flow' feel from your pool. Too large, and it just feels like another mana bar.

    If we don't use a resource concept, what would you see? Stance-based?

    One thing that's common to all of these classes is that resources are bound to the player only, and have no variety based on other factors. It would be cool if you could externalize the resource pool. - make it dependant on the environment, mobs you're facing, etc. Spriests are a dot class, so it could function with a 'harvester dot' that generates your resource, and then launch into combos - the more enemies and the quicker you can rotate through them, the more orbs you generate, the greater your effects. It would really emphasize the 'multi-mob vs. single mob' discrepancy we have, might make us feel more unique.

  12. #32
    awesome ideas. God Bless You! Really hope someone at blizz gets a chance to look at these.

  13. #33
    Like your ideas and i think the shadow spec needs work.

  14. #34
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voidsinger View Post

    If we don't use a resource concept, what would you see? Stance-based?
    So mana isn't a resource then, why have it? Why do we need to horde a resource until optimal use?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by mindp View Post
    So mana isn't a resource then, why have it? Why do we need to horde a resource until optimal use?
    Mana is a resource that encompasses the entire fight. In that sense, it's your 'budget' for the encounter, which you need to manage wisely (or these days, not much at all). Shadow orbs, much like energy or holy power, then becomes a secondary resource that's much more involved in the flow of the fight and dictates your peaks and valleys in damage. I think of it as macro vs. micro. I think the micro is important in your enjoyment of the fight and acts as a skill differenciator - nobody's gonna have more DPS because they have more mana, but people that manage their micro resources more carefully may.

  16. #36
    The Patient
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    I'm not too worried about the secondary resource system. I played my Paladin alt going from managing mana to managing Holy Power with only 3, up to the 5 cap now. So if our orbs followed into that role I really wouldn't be that worried.

    Thinking back though, I've always been a healer on my Priest, since Vanilla. I leveled as Holy (oh god it was slow), raided as Holy, then Disc. to provide the Spirit buff to the mana users. Then dabbled in this weird hybrid build in t4 TBC, but then went pure Holy for t5+. I tried Disc. absorbs in late WotLK and didn't like it, so stayed Holy.

    Come Cataclysm, they really really made healers have to micro-manage their mana, but have since made it not a requirement for DPS to manage. In Vanilla DPS had to stop casting to wand for mana (Alliance and JoW ), or feign death and drink (Hunters). Without having to manage mana at all, I think all caster DPS should have some sort of resource to manage. Keeps it at least somewhat interesting vs. just casting and waiting for procs, never worrying about a thing except when you have to move. I'm also glad it's a self-resource and not a combo-point resource like Ferals or Rogues have to deal with changing targets all the time. ><

    I really like a lot of the ideas in this thread and look forward to see what else in mentioned and contributed.

  17. #37
    The Patient HeroZero's Avatar
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    First off, I have been meaning to comment on this for a while and FINALLY I have some time to do so.

    Your points about the hybrid specializations are very valid and some of your ideas are strong, only ones I think wouldn't work would be the Shaman ones but more importantly ON TO THE MEAT OF THE POST!

    Five shadow orbs YESYESYESYESYES!

    The change to Mind Blast would be interesting although not sure I want to be a paladin or not, granted we are similar lore-wise to paladins (at least in my mind) so it makes enough sense. Increased base cooldown for the trade-off of haste scaling and instant cast, which would probably further solidify haste as our best secondary stat. The problem I see (or perhaps not a problem per se) is that this will make haste our go to stat potentially even over intellect when possible. Obviously this isn't necesarrily a bad thing just different and makes me unhappy for unknown reasons.

    Coagulate makes sense to give better orb generation with more abilities utilizing orbs.
    (non gameplay thing but Coalesce would be more 'shadowy' than coagulate)


    Dispersion would no longer be much of a dps loss since you would come out being able to throw some stronger spells.



    Mind War seems like a altered version of Insanity, which is fine especially if you aren't going to have to move there should be some reward for the risk. I think perhaps it should really be a risk and have something of a unstoppable cast or some such, non-interruptible by yourself or others.

    Black Shield would be far too powerful to have both immunity to pushback, interrupt, and silence. Pushback and one other sounds more reasonable either that or have it a weaker shield, perhaps even glyphs to change it in such a way.

    Shadow Word: Despair is a great Idea for casting on the move shadow orb usage. I like the building damage and the idea of the dispeller gets the dot put on them (would make for some nifty arena mechanics). What I DON'T think is a good idea is have the priest regain any shadow orbs on it being dispelled. Because then they will probably already have enough to recast it again before the previous one has even ended.



    I don't see any problem with Desperate Prayer being a consistent ability for all priests, although the amount healed would likely need to be reduced.

    Void Shift is a good idea as a variation on the life swapping mechanic that healer priests now have on a shorter cooldown.

    Psychic horror should probably cost up to 2 orbs and disarm for 4 seconds per orb.

    Fade change just seems like an unnecessary change and I personally would just throw it away.



    Those are my impressions of your class ideas which I think are very good and could make for a very interesting to play shadow priest.
    Last edited by HeroZero; 2013-07-01 at 11:25 PM.

  18. #38
    Bloodsail Admiral Alanar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justs View Post
    I guess old rogues Hit and Run will be great for priest mobility instead of Spectral guise...
    Hit and Run
    30 yd range
    Instant 45 sec cooldown
    Immediately teleport to a targeted location, leaving a shadow of yourself behind. Upon activating the effect a second time, or after 10 sec, you will return to your shadow's location.
    This I approve! Very nice idea!

    ps: Why does this thread not get more attention..


  19. #39
    The Patient HeroZero's Avatar
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    Because too many people are lazy and are satisfied with anything blizz gives them, instead of thinking how it could be taken in a new direction that doesn't break it.

  20. #40
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Edit: eep meant to hit Preview Post not Submit! not quite ready yet ><



    Revised version based on the suggested changes in this thread, thanks for the feedback all

    So, I've been swayed to the argument that even with a 10 second cooldown and haste reducing CD on Mind Blast, it could still end up feeling spammy at high levels of haste. Instead, Coagulate could scale with haste, giving us a constant feed of Shadow Orbs but having slower haste scaling than what would occur if Mind Blasts cooldown scaled with haste: this would also reduce the risk of haste becoming Too good. Since currently we're at no risk at all of scaling too well, the scaling boost this results in isn't an issue (we're like the slowest stat scaling spec in the game still).


    Shadow Orb Generators

    Mind Blast *redesigned* - instant cast, 8 second cooldown, rewards 1 Shadow Orb

    Coagulate *new* - passive - regenerates 1 Shadow Orb every 30 seconds, cooldown reduced by haste (ignores procs, much like mana tide for spirit effects).

    Shadow Word: Death *redesigned* - instant cast, 8 second cooldown, generates 1 Shadow Orb and deals 180% of current (Live) Shadow Word: Death damage (cannot be cast a second time if the target fails to comply with our suggestion, this fixes the bizarre 7.5s orb generation cooldown on a 8 second cooldown ability)



    Shadow Orb Finishers

    Devouring Plague *removed*

    Mind War *new* - channeled - Consumes 3 Shadow Orbs to deal 150% of spellpower each second for 5 seconds. Mind War heals the Priest for 5% of max health each time it deals damage.

    Black Shield *new* - instant cast. Consumes 3 Shadow Orbs to shield the priest for 50% of max health, or 25% to allies. While Black Shield lasts the target is immune to spell pushback and interrupts, lasts 30 seconds, applies Weakened Soul. If cast on an enemy, Black Shield instead absorbs 20% of their max health in healing received.

    Shadow Word: Despair *new* - instant cast. Consumes 3 Shadow Orbs to deal progressively more damage each second over 8 seconds. Despair snares the target by 20% initially, and an additional 10% each second for the duration, up to 99%. If Despair is dispelled, the dispeller suffers Despair instead.

    Voidsong *replaces Mind Flay: Insanity* - Channeled, 5 second duration (immune to spell pushback) - Consumes 3 Shadow Orbs to call the void into reality, dealing massive AoE damage to any who remain nearby. (Reference to Hymn of Hope, Divine Hymn, and: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/04/10)



    Shadow Orb Utility

    Desperate Prayer *moved* - Desperate Prayer is now the level 87 ability for all Priests.

    Desperate Prayer Talent replaced with

    Void Shift renamed to Spirit Shift - Holy and Disc Only. 5 minute cooldown, exchanges health with the target ally and heals the lower of the two to a maximum of 25% of their max health.

    Void Shift *redesigned* - Shadow Only. Costs 1 Shadow Orb. The shadowpriest instantly exchanges places with the targetted ally or enemy, 20 second cooldown.

    Psychic Horror *redesigned* - Costs 1 Shadow Orb. Disarms the opponent of their weapon for 8 seconds. 60 second cooldown.

    Fade *redesigned*(for Shadow) - Costs 1 Shadow Orb. Greatly reduces threat for 10 seconds, and for the first 3 seconds the priest is untargetable. 30 second cooldown.


    Glyph Suggestions

    Glyph of Void Shift - Minor - Void Shift no longer moves your target to your former location

    Glyph of Voidsong - Minor - Your Voidsong now summons a thousand starving crows.

    Glyph of Reflective Shieldnow also applies to Black Shield on you. (Amounts to basically the same effect as before.)

    Glyph of Despair your Despair now always consumes only 1 shadow orb, instead of up to 3.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-07-04 at 11:45 PM.
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