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  1. #1

    No Holy Pally love in 5.4?

    So I couldn't help but notice holy wasn't even mentioned in the patch notes. I suppose I could look at this in a positive way (at least they didn't get nerfed) but I did notice all other healing classes got buffed with the exception of monks. Lord knows they don't need a buff anyway.

    I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining cause I do love playing a holy paladin but it is well known they are the worst PvP healers currently. Not that they are terrible because the single target healing output is insane. I don't think the change to turn evil isn't that big of a deal when really its just a change to the currect cc we use anyway only now they run around instead of stand still. Personally I would rather see them strip most of holly paladin cc (except HoJ) and give us a bit more utility to get out of cc or not die so quickly when chain cc'd. Paladins are suppose to be heavy armored in the mix of combat type healers, I don't want to cc people I just want to be able to get a few casts off here and there considering all our big heals that matter are hard casted. Doesn't matter how big the heals are if you can't cast.

    Keep your added cc, I don't want more HoT's, I just want a little love helping me not get locked out of casting for long long long periods of time.

  2. #2
    It's still really early in the patch, no need to get concerned yet. Those notes are not final, they are just the first part.

  3. #3
    isn't the patch notes only like 2 or 3 days old?

  4. #4
    Holy, just like Mages are among blizzards golden childs. They will be looked after rest assured. All in good time.

  5. #5
    The Patient
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    resto shaman is in a worse place. Be glad youre a holy paladin imo.

    Either way glad im playing my monk atm :P and other 4 healers are on the bench heh.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by MuskiER View Post
    resto shaman is in a worse place. Be glad youre a holy paladin imo.
    This is a joke right? I can tell you must be kidding around with this statement. No way are Resto Shaman in a worse place than Holy Paladins in arena. The only way I can see anyone thinking this way is if you try to just stand there, out in the open, mindlessly trying to heal without caring about los or kiting and that would just be plain silly. Played correctly resto shaman are incredible in arena right now. Monks and disc are the best yes but resto shaman is not very far behind.

    Holy Paladins will keep anyone up through most burst situations with the heavy healing output if not cc focus properly I will admit that but it doesnt take much of a cc chain to completely take a primarely hard casting, single target healer completely out of the fight while blowing up the dps.

  7. #7
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozone View Post
    This is a joke right? I can tell you must be kidding around with this statement. No way are Resto Shaman in a worse place than Holy Paladins in arena. The only way I can see anyone thinking this way is if you try to just stand there, out in the open, mindlessly trying to heal without caring about los or kiting and that would just be plain silly. Played correctly resto shaman are incredible in arena right now. Monks and disc are the best yes but resto shaman is not very far behind.

    Holy Paladins will keep anyone up through most burst situations with the heavy healing output if not cc focus properly I will admit that but it doesnt take much of a cc chain to completely take a primarely hard casting, single target healer completely out of the fight while blowing up the dps.
    The reason why I said shaman is in a worse place as well is because theyre easily shut down while being focus on without peel. With the amount of cc out there shaman and paladin do get shut down easily considering its easier to kick them compare to other instant heavy healers.

    Sure Resto shaman are great at 3v3 and 5v5 because other class can peel. However Im looking at them as a solo player on their own. Seen they cant really get away from a class with stun, blanket silence n etc.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MuskiER View Post
    The reason why I said shaman is in a worse place as well is because theyre easily shut down while being focus on without peel. With the amount of cc out there shaman and paladin do get shut down easily considering its easier to kick them compare to other instant heavy healers.

    Sure Resto shaman are great at 3v3 and 5v5 because other class can peel. However Im looking at them as a solo player on their own. Seen they cant really get away from a class with stun, blanket silence n etc.
    the game isn't balanced around solo pvp or solo play.

    resto shamans are great in 3v3, certainly better than holy paladins. they have more anti caster and anti control tools and better defenses against being blown up in stuns.

    they also allow their team to play much more offensively because they are less sensitive to positioning then holy paladins.

    holy paladin need more offensive control, like reverting the blindingly light change, they need more defenses against being controlled, possibly by lowering sac's cooldown and fixing the bugs that cause it not to break sheeps and traps, and they need more offensive pressure, such as buffing denounce or making the duration of denounce's debuff last longer.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    If the changes go live as they currently are I reckon PHDK will be back and ready to kill everyone with no DRs on their CC.

    DK asphyx > full trap > turn evil > silence > scatter > a pet CC > asphyx > full trap > turn evil > silence > scatter + readiness ontop and paladin HoJ + death grip.

    Turn evil shouldn't become a thing next patch as it'll simply make this a godcomp CC-wise >.>]

    Oh, and 2.5 min bubble.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Emfg View Post
    If the changes go live as they currently are I reckon PHDK will be back and ready to kill everyone with no DRs on their CC.

    DK asphyx > full trap > turn evil > silence > scatter > a pet CC > asphyx > full trap > turn evil > silence > scatter + readiness ontop and paladin HoJ + death grip.

    Turn evil shouldn't become a thing next patch as it'll simply make this a godcomp CC-wise >.>]

    Oh, and 2.5 min bubble.
    ghoul stun, pet stun, hoj and asphyxiate all dr with each other.
    the paladin will probably get cced if he spends that much time out in the open.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  11. #11
    From a PVE standpoint, no, there hasn't been much love for holy paladins.
    I do hope that something changes, otherwise most holy paladins will be sat (I only see one taken in a 25m raid - at most).
    Resto shammies are the worst atm, and they need some love....though they have good CDs and are a mana battery. Most guilds will take at least one for that reason alone.
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...00000000111111

    The current order of HPS:
    Priest > Monk > Druid/Paly > Shammy
    With 5.4 changes, I think it will stay the same - maybe Monk/Druid tying for 2nd.

    I see priest, monk, and druid changes, but the Paly changes are all PVP. I don't see shammy changes yet (besides 12 yard Healing rain...eww).

    To be honest, I don't know if we're going to get any with 5.4. They will probably keep our playstyle the same, and I think with 5.5 (if there is one), we will have the class changes.

  12. #12
    I think you really underestimate an instant cast 8 second CC on a 15 second CD, half cooldown on Divine Protection and Divine Shield, and a 3 minute CD on Guardian of Ancient Kings. Hpals are getting hella buffed. Not sure what you're talking about.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewwindeeps View Post
    I think you really underestimate an instant cast 8 second CC on a 15 second CD, half cooldown on Divine Protection and Divine Shield, and a 3 minute CD on Guardian of Ancient Kings. Hpals are getting hella buffed. Not sure what you're talking about.
    Does nothing to solve the two big current problems that Hpallys have. To venerable to CC and Heals are too weak.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by MuskiER View Post
    resto shaman is in a worse place. Be glad youre a holy paladin imo.

    Either way glad im playing my monk atm :P and other 4 healers are on the bench heh.
    Shamans are way better than paladins lol, Paladins can't do anything without getting into CC. Inb4 wind shear, grounding and tremor being bad...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewwindeeps View Post
    I think you really underestimate an instant cast 8 second CC on a 15 second CD, half cooldown on Divine Protection and Divine Shield, and a 3 minute CD on Guardian of Ancient Kings. Hpals are getting hella buffed. Not sure what you're talking about.
    1) Turn evil glyph has currently been removed so it will not be an instant cc on a 15 second cd. Currently it functions exactly like repentance expect for the fact that its a fear.

    2) Its half CD on DP and bubble IF you dont take clemency aka double hand spells.

    3) Guardian to 3 minutes is ret only.

    So no, hpallys are not getting any love really, and they definitely need some.

  16. #16
    I'm almost certain that none of you play holy pallies. Every. Single. Healer. Gets CC'd. Just because it's "easier" to CC an hpal with certain CC doesn't mean that they are weak healers. Their heals are the best single target heals in the game. Argue that with me. Please. Hpals rarely ever have to cast, and when they do, they have DS and DA to protect themselves from interrupts. Honestly, what do priests have to prevent CC that pallies don't? Fear Ward? Okay, sweet, one CC breaker every 3 minutes. Pallies have Hand of Sacrifice in the same way. Spectral Guise? Alright, cool, PRIESTS WIN THERE! I'm not saying pallies are better than any other healer. I'm saying that none of you actually seem to have played an hpal at high-end, and apparently just stand out in the open and never pillar. The thing that separates pallies from every other healer is the lack of instant CC that allows them to pop out of a pillar, cc, and go back. Priests have an instant fear on a 30 sec CD. Monks have paralysis and spear hand strike, combined with insane mobility. Druids have disorienting roar, bash, nature's swiftness cyclone, on top of great mobility as well. Give holy pallies blinding light back, and they rise back to the top. I promise you. If turn evil goes live and the glyph reduces the cast time to 0, hpallies are back to crazy good status.

  17. #17
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbubble View Post
    From a PVE standpoint, no, there hasn't been much love for holy paladins.
    And that's the truth of the matter. In arenas, you're fine. Just play better, or tell your partner/s to stop sucking.

    PvE is where the problems lie. We're scaling really badly by the looks of things. I have no idea why they felt that mastery nerf was necessary when they just planned to buff the other healing classes around us anyway...
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewwindeeps View Post
    I'm almost certain that none of you play holy pallies. Every. Single. Healer. Gets CC'd. Just because it's "easier" to CC an hpal with certain CC doesn't mean that they are weak healers.
    yes, every healer does get cced, but of all of them holy paladin is the most vulnerable to it because they don't have a reliable short cd way to avoid it or immune it. good positioning makes or breaks holy paladins, i don't think any other healer is quite as sensitive to it.

    hand of sac is incredibly buggy, doesn't do enough damage to break a number of ccs, gets dispelled, gets you hardswapped to and has a fairly hefty cooldown. grounding, fearward, shifting polys, sw:deathing are all more reliable and more forgiving of errors than hand of sac.

    what's more holy paladin's output is nearly nil when cced, their hots, passive heals,and absorbs are not as strong as those of other healers. if a shaman or priest or druid gets cced, they have much more powerful absorbs or hots on their team mates.

    so they are more vulnerable to ccs then other healers, and their ability to protect their team while cced is also reduced.

    Their heals are the best single target heals in the game. Argue that with me.
    they aren't actually, go look at the pve numbers to see how as other healers get gear holy paladin throughput goes down in comparison, and their mana longevity, which before was their greatest selling point isn't that great anymore either.

    Give holy pallies blinding light back, and they rise back to the top. I promise you. If turn evil goes live and the glyph reduces the cast time to 0, hpallies are back to crazy good status.
    they are mostly likely getting rid of the instant TE glyph, all the talent does it take their casted cc OFF the disorient DR and puts it ON the fear DR. why warlocks get a glyph to change their DRs and paladins have to talent it i'll never know. what's more, it takes away yet ANOTHER instant cc from ret paladins and forces them to lose damage by using SoJ to snare if they are not playing a comp that snares for them

    you do realize that the reason blinding light got nerfed wasn't paladins being particularly strong right? it was because of how broken KFC was last season. paladins don't have very much flexibility in terms of comps they can play because of their lack of offensive control and vulnerability to cc. they've always been the healer of choice for warriors, holy paladins are a feature in almost ALL warrior comps, guess what KFC was?
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Aqua View Post
    And that's the truth of the matter. In arenas, you're fine. Just play better, or tell your partner/s to stop sucking.
    Paladins are terrible in arenas no matter what you say and I can safely say I got far more arena experience than you will ever have.

  20. #20
    Blademaster WiNiFiX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macke View Post
    Paladins are terrible in arenas no matter what you say and I can safely say I got far more arena experience than you will ever have.
    Sorry had to comment on this, you were born on the below date according to your profile, since most human players have been playing the game since release i think we beat you on that one !!!

    Date of Birth: January 1 (2012)

    If holy paladin's really sucked then achiving 2.5k rating in 3's would NOT be possible

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/arena/bl...20of%20heaven/
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/arena/ysondre/3v3/GoDs/
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/arena/ra...4%D0%B5%D1%82/
    Last edited by WiNiFiX; 2013-06-20 at 07:34 AM.

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