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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by ProgRQ View Post
    He will probably corrupt himself with the Sha of Pride, because HE IS INSANE AND ALL HE WANTS IS POWER!!!
    There's a huge flaw in that theory. We engage and kill the Sha of Pride early into SoO. He's like the 4th boss in, when we're dealing with the aftermath of the devastation to the Vale.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
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  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Wazooty View Post
    The definition of corruption works just fine for Garrosh. I could care less how you choose to define it, look it up. Garrosh choosing to take some supremely evil creature unto himself for additional power fits the definition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Google Define
    cor·rup·tion
    /kəˈrəpSHən/
    Noun
    Dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery.
    The action of making someone or something morally depraved or the state of being so.
    Quote Originally Posted by dictionary.com
    verb (used with object)
    6. to destroy the integrity of; cause to be dishonest, disloyal, etc., especially by bribery.
    7. to lower morally; pervert: to corrupt youth.
    8. to alter (a language, text, etc.) for the worse; debase.
    9. to mar; spoil.
    10. to infect; taint.
    i mean unless we're going with 9 or 10 in which "looks icky" = "corrupted" in which case Garrosh is just joining the rest of his race in unnatural skin pigmentation
    Last edited by LilSaihah; 2013-06-14 at 07:49 PM.
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  3. #83
    Technically he is corrupted, but it was willing at the end.

    Garrosh is a raging douchebag and warmonger that in a dire time, uses a super weapon to merge himself with an Old God akin to Cho'gall. Cho'gall was already a maniac before Old God influence and willingly merged himself with C'thun to achieve greater power. That's what Garrosh is doing.

    Anyone remember playing the game Legend of Legaia on PSX? Garrosh is playing the role that Cort was. Power hungry and willingly gives himself up to merge with a powerful being (Juggernaut/Y'shaarj) so he could have the power to conquer the world. No one was toying with their head and thoughts, they willingly did it.

    He's not corrupted in the sense that someone was playing him like a puppet like we saw with Deathwing or the Titan lore in Northrend. He saw the Sha and the Heart of Y'shaarj was nothing but a weapon, a tool to further his goals and opted to use their power.
    Last edited by Bullettime; 2013-06-14 at 07:53 PM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    i mean unless we're going with 9 or 10 in which "looks icky" = "corrupted" in which case Garrosh is just joining the rest of his race in unnatural skin pigmentation
    So to consume the power to destroy things is not lowering his morality?

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  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Nerzhul was transformed into the Lich King forcibly by Kil'jaeden. Arthas became a slave to the lich king when he picked up Frostmourne and lost his soul to it. And then became part of the Lich King when putting the helmet on.
    It was Arthas' choice to pursue the acquisition of Frostmourne in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
    My Toons: Duskwind/Dæmion/Tobirama/Ophanim

  6. #86
    Indeed I think the proper think to say for Garrosh is that he is corrupt, not corrupted. It makes a world of difference.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-14 at 07:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    So to consume the power to destroy things is not lowering his morality?
    No, his morality is debased to begin with. There is no external influence debasing him. He is and has always been corrupt (being the strongest warrior and designated leader of your people and just moping all day while their lives are threatened all over cause you have daddy issues is pretty damn immoral to begin with; he only became worse since then).

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Amorise View Post
    Technically he is corrupted, but it was willing at the end.
    This is the problem with people defining corruption. They believe that he was "taken over". That is not corruption, and people have stolen that word and made it mean something else (and to be fair, it is partly Blizzards part, they use corruption as some form of mind control at times).

    Garrosh is choosing evil. He wants power, he took it. That is corruption. But it is not the God's imposing their will on him, and him having no choice. He chose.

  8. #88
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    Eldritch, unknowable ancient evils whose main plots to escape their imprisonment and conquer Azeroth revolve around corrupting key personnel to enact magical rituals... Apparently don't have a good HR department or talent scouts. I might stick with 'the writers are hacks'. There's a reason the hokey old Bond movies aren't considered the pinnacle of writing.

    I mean, is Garrosh's ultimate move going to be putting the raid onto a platform which unnecessarily descends incredibly slowly into a tank full of ill-tempered, mutated sea bass?
    I think you may have taken my post a bit too seriously although most of it applies. If you want to see good writing, you're not overly likely to do so in anything but books. Least of all MMO's where something happens every few months and nothing is ever a surprise. Yes, I'm separating good writing and story-telling from writing I like and stories I enjoy. They are two different things.

    I mean after all, wouldn't the sensible thing be for the minions of darkness (tm) to get together in one place for the SoO raid and take everyone out at once? No, we'll run from 1 to the other as they wait patiently for us. MMO's have very little to do with actual writing.

    Given all of that the argument about whether or not Garrosh is corrupt or corrupted is quite beside the point. He's something that's there to kill.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-06-14 at 08:47 PM.
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  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I think you may have taken my post a bit too seriously although most of it applies. If you want to see good writing, you're not overly likely to do so in anything but books. Least of all MMO's where something happens every few months and nothing is ever a surprise. Yes, I'm separating good writing and story-telling from writing I like and stories I enjoy. They are two different things.

    I mean after all, wouldn't the sensible thing be for the minions of darkness (tm) to get together in one place for the SoO raid and take everyone out at once? No, we'll run from 1 to the other as they wait patiently for us. MMO's have very little to do with actual writing.

    Given all of that the argument about whether or not Garrosh is corrupt or corrupted is quite beside the point. He's something that's there to kill.
    It's fair enough, I have pieces that I like that aren't done particularly well, but Warcraft (and Starcraft, but that's for another time) is particularly egregious in its poor writing. I'm perfectly okay with Warcraft not being on the same level as Bioshock or New Vegas, but I'd like to see them at least try, because at the moment Warcraft's below the prequel Star Wars in terms of coherent writing. Games as a whole are difficult to write for, and MMOs have a unique set of challenges all their own, but to just seemingly throw in the towel or not put any effort whatsoever is pretty sad, for settings that I (used to) enjoy.
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  10. #90
    Epic! Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    If he doesn't care about the nature of the powers that he's using, why does he call Sylvanas a bitch for using the Val'kyr, and why does he (unsuccessfully) forbid her from using the Plague on the Worgen? Seriously, if he's looking for any weapon to absolutely crush the Alliance, the Val'kyr are right there.
    The Val'kyr? Are you serious? You think is a weapon Garrosh can "control"? He cannot even properly control Sylvanas...lol.

    The Val'kyr are under Sylvanas's direct control, and nothing can change that. And Sylvanas and her Forsaken are so reliable allies, so reliable that you can totally trust them that what they develop will be turned just against the Alliance, and not against you aswell.

    Oh wait. The Wrathgate say hello..

    Garrosh had a very low opinion of them even before sailing to Northrend:

    "the Forsaken—an aptly named people, in Garrosh’s opinion. What Thrall had ever seen in them, Garrosh could not possibly comprehend." -Heart of War-

    and then, in Northrend, he sees a traitorous faction of them betray the Horde, backstab it and killing a lot of Horde soldiers in the process. What do you think was more resonable for him, foolishly rationalize everything by saying "those were just traitors" and blindly trust Sylvanas and the rest of his "people" to use freely any super-plague-weapon like the one that killed Horde soldiers in the Wrathgate or maybe put an eye on them, for ensure that they will not do anything "out of line"?

    The Horde under Thrall's leadership "allowed" (in a sense) that someone like Putress followed his own agenda, clearly Garrosh didn't want the same to happen again, and this was one of the reasons for which Thrall thought, initially, that Garrosh was the kind of Warchief the Horde truly "needed", because he had the "strenght" to hold the Horde together, in other words, not allowing something like the Wrathgate happen again (this is well explained in the dialogue Vol'jin have with Thrall in the troll initial zone).

    Then, about the Val'kyr, not only they couldn't be controlled directly by Garrosh, but the fact that Sylvanas had these new toys all for herself, able to raise new undead, (loyal to her, not to Garrosh) like the very Lich King he fought in Northrend, made him a little preoccupied about it, like Tirion. But while Tirion was preoccupied for his obvious "holy" reasons, Garrosh was more preoccupied about the fact that a supposed "ally" could turn against him and his people at any moment, turning in basically a carbon-copy of the enemy he fought in Northrend.

    And about the "bitch" title, he didn't say that to her just for the Val'kyr, but because when he asked to Sylvanas which was the difference between her and the Lich King, at that point, she responded that she served the Horde, but in a pretty mocking way; and Garrosh don't really like this kind of "desrespect". At all. You should know it. Then, before leaving, he threatened her, saying that "her time could arrive before others", which is a decent preview of his future attitude of "dealing" with "problematic" allies.

    Sorry guys but you just deluded yourself in thinking that Garrosh suddenly had high morals and principles when NOTHING and nowhere has been suggested. You just saw things by its surface, judged the single events alone, without taking a look at the damn, whole picture; you builded a completely different character in your mind, which basically blinded you to see the character for what effectively was.

    And when shit happened, you fell by the clouds.

    If Garrosh is so adamant against dependence on or addiction to a source of power, why is he allowing his people to use magic at all, considering his race has almost first-hand experience to what happened to the Elves after they lost the Sunwell? This is more rhetorical than anything because "he is a blockhead" is a perfectly fine answer here but that really makes you wonder why Thrall gave him the keys to the Horde in the first place.
    Comparing orcs and elves is like comparing candies and steaks. The elves are those addicted to magic in a way that when they lose it, they feel PAIN and become weak and unstable. The orcs are NOT addicted to magic, they WERE addicted to demon's blood, an addiction that can be refunded, but actually don't exist anymore, after the death of Mannoroth. His blood, when pumped in the orcs veins, brought them to the utter dependance that turned them in slave of the demons and bloodthirsty monsters. Still, as i said, orcs are not elves, and they don't become suddenly addicted to any form of magic.
    On the contrary, fel magic can be controlled and dominated aswell by training and willpower (like warlocks do), and Garrosh had his "Kor'kron Subjugators" in the Echo Isles (warriors in plate armor that use small bits of fel magic) and the whole martial force there was guided by a warlock, all in perfect control of themselves, following Garrosh's will.

    Still, it's pretty clear that Garrosh don't "trust" enough fel magic as a stable source of power, using an abundant amount of it could be too risky, since the main problem with demonic magic is that becoming dependant by it (like the orcs risk a lot if they use an HUGE amount of it) means becoming first manipulated, and then enslaved by some demon. Manipulation, this is excatly what Garrosh fears most, like many statements of the quests involving the demon in Ashenvale suggest just a "little":

    "This Draaka woman has allowed herself to be manipulated by a demon!"
    "The demons want nothing more than for us to renew our dependence on their foul magics. That reliance can only lead to the entire orc race becoming enslaved. You wish to see Draaka go unpunished? Then you must find the demons' pawn who has manipulated her, and destroy him!"

    Found a common theme? Well, it's for this that Garrosh turned to Dark Shamanism, because the shamanistic powers are chaotic, nature and "neutral" magics, perfectly in line with the orcish traditions; this is not a corruptive magic, nor there are sentient beings behind it, "exploiting" any kind of addiction for enslave the orcs. But, compared to the common shamanism, Garrosh's shamans can achieve power-boost much more greater of the common warlocks, by enslaving the elements; the practice is reckless and is not out of consequences, basically such an abuse of the elements can even bring another Cataclysm, as the Earthen Ring say.
    But Garrosh don't give a fuck about it, because the subject of the risk is completely different by fel magic. For the rest he never showed respect about anything, and surely will not begin now that there is a war to be win at all costs.

    About the Sha, Garrosh is so obsessed about it because he saw it as the chance for not just have a weapon, but make his people..."stronger". The Sha is a dark energy, but corrupt and dominate the "host" by taking over an emotion, not like demonic magic do; and if his great, "superior" race was able to control their boosted emotions while under the effect of the Sha (and so, basically, controlling the Sha) they would have been "unstoppable". The attempt failed, but Garrosh seemed to be single-minded in dominate the Sha himself, i guess he belive he's enough strong-willed to succeed where his Kor'kron failed.

    In the end, about Thrall giving Garrosh the "keys", the problem is that Garrosh didn't shout "heeeyyy i'm gonna use any kind of huge evil power without a thought" to Thrall, he belived that a leader with a much more "tougher" attitude was better for the Horde; and with the help of his advisors, add some wisdom to the strenght, sincerily beliving that so, Garrosh would have been able to do a far better work than him.
    Too bad that remained only the strength, since the one that could have been able to give some direction to Garrosh (Cairne) is dead, then remained Vol'jin, for which Garrosh was full of prejudice, since he was the chieftain of the trolls and Garrosh didn't like them, ending the matter by forcing Vol'jin to leave Orgrimmar.

    All that remained was Eitrigg, that has been completely outranked by Malkorok in Tides of War, which has been the worst thing that could ever happened, since he give to Garrosh that kind of "reception" that he always searched (but never obtained), by not only sharing completely Garrosh's point of view, but even giving him the worst advises, that only grew Garrosh's convinction that his way was the right way. Add it the growing, misplaced obsession about his father's will, and you will have a questionable leader with some good points following the worst of his nature, all brought by a combination of very unlucky situations and a "corruption" brought by his growing pride and his position of power.

    Again, no, i don't see "inconcistences" in nothing about him. It's pointless discussing about the stuff in game if someone don't care about reading novels and short-stories, Garrosh and his arc has been completely developed in the MMO, he didn't have hooks in the RTS like Illidan, Arthas and Deathwing, so you cannot pretend to understand the story by just playing the game, because is IMPOSSIBLE develop stories in a MMO alone, without external sources. Deal with it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-15 at 01:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    Here's Garrosh's character development for you.

    BC - Moping around in the obscurity Outland. Boo hoo, daddy was an asshole.
    Wrath - Joins Horde. Completely hates Alliance even though he's had almost virtually no interaction with them. RAWR ME SMASH ALLIANCE SCUM.
    Cata - Thrall has to go all Green Jesus to save the world. Blizz realizes it would be stupid to have him be essentially neutral AND warchief, so they replace him with Garrosh, who actually shows some concern for honor and disgust toward unwarranted violence/Sylvanas raising the dead.
    MOP - RAWR ME SMASH ALLIANCE pt. 2. Garrosh once again fucking hates the Alliance, even going so far as to murder a child in cold blood. Displays racism toward anything not green and ugly. Wants to conquer the world. Says 'fuck you' to the trolls and that he'll employ all kinds of sketchy shit to conquer the world for the Horde.

    Nah, that's the story, bro. Inconsistencies and bad story telling both abound. And calling Garrosh a character...well, you may as well call Basic Campfire a character, too. At least a camp fire would show a little more consistency and burn the same color most of the time. The reason Garrosh is being killed off is because they know they made a short-sighted mistake in giving him control over the Horde.

    Also, his death is meaningless. He's a disposable stand in for Thrall who got vtk'd by the dev team once he served his purpose. And lol @ Garrosh having the strength to dominate the Sha. Just lol. That's like giving a caveman a calculator and telling him to find square roots.
    Oh amazing. You know, i just stopped to even try to arguing with useless posts like this long, long ago. No offense, but this is basically a pile of shit put randomly together in name of complete ignorance. I will not dare to say something like "read some external source outside the game", since you shows little understanding of what happening in the game too. Just stop caring about it, it's wasted time.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-06-15 at 02:27 AM.

  11. #91
    technically this thread is wrong, garrosh is corrupt. he has been corrupt since the point between burning crusade and wrath where he began believing that the orcs deserve the entire world and that everyone else was an obstacle to achieving that. he isn't corrupt because of the sha, that's just yet another thing he's using as a super weapon in a long line of such things (magnataur, protodrakes, empowered mana bomb) his corruption is one of motivation, failure to listen to more sane voices of guidance, and failure to understand said voices' meanings when he does listen. garrosh is what you get when you give a rebellious child a one sided view of history and enough power to be a threat if he tries to be.
    ...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.

  12. #92
    The Lightbringer foxHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Oh amazing. You know, i just stopped to even try to arguing with useless posts like this long, long ago. No offence, but this is basically a pile of shit put randomly together in name of complete ignorance. I will not dare to say something like "read some external source outside the game", since you shows little understanding of what happening in the game too. Just stop caring about it, it's wasted time.
    Useless posts. lol

    Kind of like that gigantic wall of text where you do almost nothing but answer lose ends with hollow blabber and extrapolations in paragraph after paragraph of what would seem to be fan-fic? Speaking of wasted time and piles of shit.
    Look! Words!

  13. #93
    I'm not sure it really matters what he is. The reality is that he's a dead man. lol

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Apathy - View Post
    Nope no outside influence hasn't done shit to the guy hes just batshit Insane get that through your thick head once again and I know my lore more then you /elitist vibe.
    He's not even insane, though. He's quite sure that he's in the right. He follows the path of power. There is no good or evil to Garrosh, just power, and who has the most power. He wants to be the one with the most power. It's really very simple. Might makes right.

    The Trolls deal with voodoo magic and subterfuge, so he doesn't like them one bit. Considers them a cowardly race. The Tauren love peace and try to steer away from conflict, so are cowardly. The Blood Elves care only for themselves and are unable to see that the orcs are the most powerful race, therefor, cowardly. The Forsaken deal with plagues and are already proven to be potential traitors. Cowardly. That's how Garrosh sees it. Orcs that don't see Garrosh's viewpoint? They have been diluted by the other races, and are cowardly for having such weak wills.
    Last edited by Herecius; 2013-06-15 at 03:04 AM.

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  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    Up until the very end when he willingly becomes possessed by Y'shaarj he was in his right mind. He wasn't corrupted.

    Though players will assume because he died corrupt, he was corrupt ever since Northrend. They'll use it to try and explain away his sudden personality change between BC and Wrath.
    Between BC and Wrath? Don't remember him being a foolhardy dick in the pre-wrath event? The whole duel to the death with Thrall that got interrupted?

  16. #96
    Herald of the Titans Kathranis's Avatar
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    Garrosh is "corrupt" in that he's a corrupt dictator, and his body is being corrupted by dark forces.

    However, he is not being manipulated by those dark forces. I think that's the word people have been looking for.

    Everything Blizzard has said about Garrosh indicates that he's in full control of everything he's doing. He's not being used, he's doing the using. Even becoming a vessel of the Sha of Pride and Y'shaarj, that darkness is coming from within himself, not from some outside force trying to bend him to its will. He's bending that power to his own will.

    And the main reason Blizzard is having his story arc progress in such a way, with Garrosh acting so deliberately, is a response to criticism that we've had too many final bosses who were being manipulated and transformed into villains, rather than acting out of their own motivations.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Duskster View Post
    It was Arthas' choice to pursue the acquisition of Frostmourne in the first place.
    Yeah but he had no idea what the consequences of picking it up would be. If he had, he wouldn't have taken it. He took it intending to use it as a weapon to slay Mal'ganis and save his people, not so he would become a tool of the scourge and eventually become one with the lich king.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    Yeah but he had no idea what the consequences of picking it up would be. If he had, he wouldn't have taken it. He took it intending to use it as a weapon to slay Mal'ganis and save his people, not so he would become a tool of the scourge and eventually become one with the lich king.
    Arthas knew Frostmourne was cursed when he took it. He didn't care.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-06-15 at 05:04 AM.
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    No, it's neither harassment NOR ninja'ing to roll on any item the system allows one to.

    Nor is it against any rules to votekick a member from the group - one person can't do it, apparently someone agreed with the rogue.

  19. #99
    Epic! Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I think people are more annoyed that in the end, he claims the power of the sha becoming corrupted at that moment.

    I mean they do it sthick like a lot.

    Can we just have a final boss that doesn't go corrupt for freaken once.
    He is not corrupt he is responsible for every action he made gaining sha power or getting Y'shaarj's heart is his action and his own free will.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-15 at 05:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Wazooty View Post
    There's been nothing to confirm that Y'shaarj hasn't been whispering madness into Garroshes ear the whole time.

    So how bout you stop pretending your thread is a fact.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-14 at 12:25 PM ----------



    Cho'gall, lich king and illidan not corrupt?


    Please tell me you're joking.

    And sha of fear not being corrupt is like saying Yogg Saron didn't go corrupt. Well of course, he IS the corruption.
    In fact Blizzard confirmed that Garrosh himself is just a bad apple it was even stated by Dave Kosak in a blue post that all of his actions and murders is from his own free will. He is just a power hungry tyrant stated from blizzard what prove you need more my friend eh?

  20. #100
    Why is called "Corruption"? For Garrosh is clearly a blessing, he willingly uses it to empower him.

    Just like the Eredar were blessed by Sargeras.

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