Could 5.4 really refresh wow and be the start of a new generation.

[leviathonlx]

I really don't expect anything in 5.4 to really help them hold subs. Their problems go deeper into the only option being some form of raiding now with no new 5 mans and not even giving a real daily area to prolong the content. Timeless Isle looks like it may have some weeklies/dailies but even that's kinda meh as it has little to nothing to do with the entire premise of the patch.

[Deleted]

No. But it's a great way to end an expansion.

[RickJamesLich]

I never understand this. You complain the heroics are too easy now,and that you liked cata heroics ignoring challenge modes completely. Challenge modes are as fast if not faster then cata heroics, and just as challenging, and they reward a lot more valor then normal heroics. Its a win win.

Yah, but how many people actually need valor when you got raiding, a weekly that gives 200 VP, and another that gives 150 VP? From there you are like 2 heroic scenarios away from capping and that's like 20 minutes tops. The challenge modes were a joke because all they offered was cosmetics, now they can give you upgrades, but I don't know many who actually need those. Not to mention, most people on my server don't feel like doing them because they offer no sort of progression path. Blizz pretty much screwed up here.

Back to the topic tho, the whole "so easy a caveman can do it" mentality I think only ends up making the game boring, even for people that don't have much time to play.

[Jacob6875]

Going to be super exciting running LFR / Flex / normal mode raids all in 1 week !

[MoanaLisa]

The challenge modes were a joke because all they offered was cosmetics, now they can give you upgrades, but I don't know many who actually need those. Not to mention, most people on my server don't feel like doing them because they offer no sort of progression path. Blizz pretty much screwed up here.

Off-Topic: There's nothing actually wrong with offering some difficult content purely for the sake of it being difficult content. If they had offered anything decent in the way of gear challenge modes would have become yet another 'mandatory' thing to complain about and likely subject to lots of calls to be nerfed. There's been a total lack of that during the expansion and that's fine by me. Like the Brawler's Guild, they serve the purpose they were created for quite well. If you don't enjoy running anything hard for the fun of it then they aren't your thing. Nothing wrong with that but it doesn't make them a joke. If most people on your server don't feel like doing them it's fair to remember that they weren't designed and put into the game for 'most people'. Quite the opposite.

On-Topic: Here's something to think about. Blizzard has obviously accepted that pay-by-the-month MMO's while still immensely profitable for them won't stay that way forever no matter what they really do. And I think that's correct. It's possible that a lot of what's going in this patch and really going back to cross-realm zones is a gradual attempt to get the game ready for the eventual move to F2P which is probably a few years away but also quite likely unavoidable. At any rate, if what they're doing now can put off that inevitability for a while or stabilize populations at a higher level than otherwise, it's not a bad thing.

[DrSteveBrule]

Flex is a difficulty that will forcome having to nerf raids on normal mode like they did on DS.
If u wanne do the raid like people do on normal: flex.
Got better in raiding and want more challenge? Try Normal.
Normal to easy for you? Heroic is your friend.

no nerfing needed at all.

I guess this is the part were we argue back and forth that LFR-Flex-Normal are all in a copy pasted instance with copy pasted bosses and added in some fire graphics for a new mechanic and a new paint job for the items.

They just tried to justify making an easier mode by ilvl and a reskin when they know most players will be fine with LFR (for the time being).

TL;DR it's a clever nerf to raids that has fooled you

[Hyve]

No. I don't believe World of Warcraft is dead, but it'll take far more then what they'll offer to bring a lot of older players back, and new players in.

For me, the game has lost the epic sense of adventure, those few really close call fights in the world where your heart is almost jumping out your chest, and your team mates are cheering you'll last until they arrive to help you.

World of Warcraft has evolved, perhaps for the better (in the long run) but these shifts are not something that could be reverted, or amended in the eyes of those who feel it needs to be, with what Patch 5.4 can offer.

I loved Mists of Pandaria when it was announced, it promised so much, and on some fronts it delivered, but sadly for me, the combination of Dragon Soul and the failings of Mists of Pandaria were just too much.

[Chickat]

LOL, no.

Virtual servers are nothing more than server mergers. Any other MMO announces server mergers, and it's the deathknell. Blizzard just calls it something different, and all the little Blizz-fanboiz see it as some awesome new feature being patched in.

This game's best days are long gone. NOthing can save it now, the only thing they can do is prolong it's death.

But the servers are not being technically merged. You still have your own individual server. come 5.4 there will still be as many servers as there was in 5.3, but people will be able to play together.

---------- Post added 2013-06-14 at 07:10 PM ----------

Yah, but how many people actually need valor when you got raiding, a weekly that gives 200 VP, and another that gives 150 VP? From there you are like 2 heroic scenarios away from capping and that's like 20 minutes tops. The challenge modes were a joke because all they offered was cosmetics, now they can give you upgrades, but I don't know many who actually need those. Not to mention, most people on my server don't feel like doing them because they offer no sort of progression path. Blizz pretty much screwed up here.

Back to the topic tho, the whole "so easy a caveman can do it" mentality I think only ends up making the game boring, even for people that don't have much time to play.

In cata you could cap valor fast. In cata you didnt need gear from heroics after a day or two. Challenge modes are essentially heroic dungeons from cata with extra rewards.

[Issalice]

I'm surprised by how many no votes were received. I don't think it will be a 'start to a new wow' as you put it OP, but I do think this will be a breath of fresh air and an excellent patch for the game. I agree with all the points you made. My guild is really looking forward to Flex-Raids. We have a lot of newbies that have never raided before, nice way to test the waters before moving up to regular 10 mans. We are also made up of mostly transfers from a dead server. Those people only brought one character over, mainly DPS, so I am having to step into the healing role which I have never done before.

Proving Grounds is something I have been really excited about since they announced they were working on it. I am a new healer, just spec'd into Disc on my priest. It is loads of fun, but I have only healed in heroic scenarios and a few regular MoP dungeons. I'm an anxious person, so pretty much the second the shit hits the fan and everyone starts taking heavy damage I freak out lol, (haven't caused a wipe yet however ) I'm still learning though, but I don't feel as if I should just jump into random heroics yet, or LFR without having a better grasp on my abilities. It's not fair to the group that gets stuck with me lol. Proving Grounds will hopefully give me the practice and boost of confidence I need. ;

Virtual Realms are going to be excellent for those stuck on dead realms. I am a little sad though as I think my guild might lose some people that transferred off a dead realm to mine, but overall it is an excellent move and I am really pleased with it.

[Xargoth6634]

No. Especially the flex thing, my guild's problem isn't that we have 12, 14, whatever raiders but that we have 7.

[Chickat]

No. Especially the flex thing, my guild's problem isn't that we have 12, 14, whatever raiders but that we have 7.

Its going to be easy enough that you can pug some people on your new heavy pop realms. And since its personal loot like lfr there's no loot drama. Its perfect really. So you see, it is for you. And you will probably make some friends who will become part of your guild and eventually you will have a 10 man normal team provided you want to do normal's.

[Xargoth6634]

Its going to be easy enough that you can pug some people on your new heavy pop realms. And since its personal loot like lfr there's no loot drama. Its perfect really. So you see, it is for you. And you will probably make some friends who will become part of your guild and eventually you will have a 10 man normal team provided you want to do normal's.

Well, any new options are great, I certainly wasn't complaining about them. I just hate these "X new feature will completely revitalize the game" threads. I'm happy any time new features (that aren't CRZ) are added, although I question the judgement of using resources for some of them.

[Chickat]

Well, any new options are great, I certainly wasn't complaining about them. I just hate these "X new feature will completely revitalize the game" threads. I'm happy any time new features (that aren't CRZ) are added, although I question the judgement of using resources for some of them.

How you think any of the 3 features use wasted resources i dont know. The virtual realms will revitalize every server and fill them up again. If they do it right proving grounds could make for a more skilled player base which is allays a good thing, and flex raids bring back pugging, and give the people who hate lfr but dont have time for normal or find it to difficult a chance to raid. They are all certainly less wasted then something like a guild finder or brawlers guild which i dont think it was wasted. Guild finder can die in a fire though.

[Sniperpally]

I foresee a lot of drama where guilds do flex raid with their b team comprised of 10-20 people and then the a team does 10 man normals, but leaves out those flex raiders that allowed the a team to gear up in the first place to do their 10 mans.

[nekobaka]

Pessimistically I am going with a no. With what I have seen there are things that totally would of been nice say two years ago where I feel like it would of had a far larger impact like Flex raids for example. Blizzard had said it themselves that it is hard to change and even take things away and that they the developers have to make decisions with the long term in mind. The developers have seem to waken up to the reality that rapid content consumption features are causing issues for both them and the community and where LFR was their hope to deal with this it ended up falling victim to it. The developers seem to be trying to get the community to move away to such heavily convenient systems and branching out more. Apparently we have not seen all the new features of 5.4, but I am pessimistic that the community will as a large be revived from it given all that it is facing.

They are all certainly less wasted then something like a guild finder or brawlers guild which i dont think it was wasted.

Attach gear to brawlers guild and see popularity soar along with complaints for nerfs. Sad but real.

[Deleted]

I never understand this. You complain the heroics are too easy now,and that you liked cata heroics ignoring challenge modes completely. Challenge modes are as fast if not faster then cata heroics, and just as challenging, and they reward a lot more valor then normal heroics. Its a win win.

His point is that Cata heroics were difficult, so i dont think he means they were fast lol

His point is that Cata heroics were hard and therefore took a long time to get through, events which took alot of time and skill.

[RickJamesLich]

Off-Topic: There's nothing actually wrong with offering some difficult content purely for the sake of it being difficult content. If they had offered anything decent in the way of gear challenge modes would have become yet another 'mandatory' thing to complain about and likely subject to lots of calls to be nerfed. There's been a total lack of that during the expansion and that's fine by me. Like the Brawler's Guild, they serve the purpose they were created for quite well. If you don't enjoy running anything hard for the fun of it then they aren't your thing. Nothing wrong with that but it doesn't make them a joke. If most people on your server don't feel like doing them it's fair to remember that they weren't designed and put into the game for 'most people'. Quite the opposite.

On-Topic: Here's something to think about. Blizzard has obviously accepted that pay-by-the-month MMO's while still immensely profitable for them won't stay that way forever no matter what they really do. And I think that's correct. It's possible that a lot of what's going in this patch and really going back to cross-realm zones is a gradual attempt to get the game ready for the eventual move to F2P which is probably a few years away but also quite likely unavoidable. At any rate, if what they're doing now can put off that inevitability for a while or stabilize populations at a higher level than otherwise, it's not a bad thing.

The problem with challenge modes is that you gotta hope you have a group of guys that likes running content with no chance at upgrades on the line - not to mention, stuff like LFR you could afk thru and get upgrades, but you couldn't actually get it in modes that were supposed to challenge you? Brawler's guild is awesome, but again, it's pretty silly that modes that require skill give purely cosmetics once again IMO - yes, if they did offer upgrades people that lacked the skill for either of those 2 modes would rage on the forums and demand nerfs, but I think doing the exact opposite is just as bad if not worse. Keep in mind, most players have done 5 mans in past versions of the game, but they are now almost entirely obsolete - to the point where they aren't creating anymore this expansion (and we'll see what happens in the next).

In essence, by wearing out the novelties in the game with over nerfs, it appears they are making people want to play it less.

---------- Post added 2013-06-15 at 05:41 PM ----------

In cata you could cap valor fast. In cata you didnt need gear from heroics after a day or two. Challenge modes are essentially heroic dungeons from cata with extra rewards.

Except besides cosmetics, there are no rewards. And I wouldn't compare challenge modes to heroic dungeons from cata, those places were a joke (after the nerfs, but even before them they were much easier). Also, which sounds more enjoyable to you, getting upgrades from dungeons, or getting VP and buying upgrades after you run the dungeons?

[Deleted]

5.4 isnt the start of anything, its a solution to the ever dwindling supply of WoW players. Maybe now I can actually see some people on my server.

Thats the way i see it too... i cannot see why the OP seems to think a new patch is the start of a significant period on Wow history. Its simply a couple of new features being thrown into the Wow universe, features which are in response to ongoing problems that the Wow community has been crying to Blizzard about for literally.. YEARS.

The low-pop realm and low-pop faction issue has been around for over 5 years. And its arguable if the new 'Virtual realms' system will actually fix the problem. Afterall, do u think this new feature will hit the ground in perfect working order? Im pretty sure there will be a multitude of glitches which will annoy the hell out of alot of players. Sure, the low-pop realm victims can probably handle added pain to their miserable gaming experience for the past few years, so i guess they can endure weeks of glitches right...

As for the 'Flex' raiding... does anyone really think this feature was even needed?

It looks to me like Blizzard are trying to get as many players as possible to raid by inventing so many raiding formats that everyone will surely drop into it. They know that the main selling point Wow has over all the other games is the raiding, i cant argue with that. But theyre making such a joke of Wows best feature by watering it down and feeding it to the playerbase with so many options its making a mockery of the whole thing...

Rather than creating any new content theyre just re-mashing old content into as many mutations as they possibly can... does anyone really think these are steps forward?

[RickJamesLich]

Thats the way i see it too... i cannot see why the OP seems to think a new patch is the start of a significant period on Wow history. Its simply a couple of new features being thrown into the Wow universe, features which are in response to ongoing problems that the Wow community has been crying to Blizzard about for literally.. YEARS.

The low-pop realm and low-pop faction issue has been around for over 5 years. And its arguable if the new 'Virtual realms' system will actually fix the problem. Afterall, do u think this new feature will hit the ground in perfect working order? Im pretty sure there will be a multitude of glitches which will annoy the hell out of alot of players. Sure, the low-pop realm victims can probably handle added pain to their miserable gaming experience for the past few years, so i guess they can endure weeks of glitches right...

As for the 'Flex' raiding... does anyone really think this feature was even needed?

It looks to me like Blizzard are trying to get as many players as possible to raid by inventing so many raiding formats that everyone will surely drop into it. They know that the main selling point Wow has over all the other games is the raiding, i cant argue with that. But theyre making such a joke of Wows best feature by watering it down and feeding it to the playerbase with so many options its making a mockery of the whole thing...

Rather than creating any new content theyre just re-mashing old content into as many mutations as they possibly can... does anyone really think these are steps forward?

I haven't read too much into the virtual realm thing, but IMO it really seems like blizzard should just merge realms already - it appears they likely don't because they make A LOT of money from realm changes, but giving a few cross realm features isn't cutting the mustard lol.

But yeah I definitely agree, flex raiding is the latest effort to water down one of the most interesting areas of the game. The ToC days of running the same instance 3 or 4 times wasn't interesting, why would this change? I get this is probably a money saver for blizz, but considering how successful the game has been, it would be awesome if they put some of that money back into it (or more than they have), and give real content for people: new 5 mans, add interesting features to professions, make rep grinds that you can't finish in 2 weeks and that give gear that doesn't cost IMO would be an interesting start.

Casual isn't even the right word to use here, but obviously there's a crowd in the game that gets upset if they can't beat certain types of content on the first try, but then they end up getting bored with that content after a few months if it's nerfed into oblivion. I think the answer lies in making content that can slowly ramp them up to raids, challenging 5 mans that do drop upgrades - not just stuff from LFR, where you then go on to do just another version of the same raid you already did lol.