What the hell is wrong with the alliance?

[Drilnos]

As an exclusively Horde player I can attest that this entire expansion has just been incredibly demoralizing as far as the Horde storyline is concerned. This has left me feeling very confused at the Alliance complaints. At this point, in canon, they're kicking us while we're down, and boy how we ever are down. What more could you want? Orgrimmar permanently taken? The return of the concentration camps? Mass executions? You people have been made the heroes of an entire expansion at the expense of half the playerbase. Isn't that enough? Or do you have to go all war criminal on our ugly asses to be satisfied?

VP has to apologize for one of their senior employees referring to all alliance players as *derogatory term for gay people*.

You mean that fellow they had play at Blizzcon one year? Corpsegrinder, wasn't it? Yeah, he's not an employee, senior or otherwise.

[Lord Pebbleton]

I'll tell ya what the hell is wrong with me.
After Magni became a big diamond, dwarven have been ignored completely. Save for that scenario. But even in there, it's the Dark Irons doing things.

[Darmalus]

As an exclusively Horde player I can attest that this entire expansion has just been incredibly demoralizing as far as the Horde storyline is concerned. This has left me feeling very confused at the Alliance complaints. At this point, in canon, they're kicking us while we're down, and boy how we ever are down. What more could you want? Orgrimmar permanently taken? The return of the concentration camps? Mass executions? You people have been made the heroes of an entire expansion at the expense of half the playerbase. Isn't that enough? Or do you have to go all war criminal on our ugly asses to be satisfied?

People can't tell the difference between winning a story and having an interesting story.

The Horde have a very interesting story. Demoralizing, but interesting. Who will die? What will Garrosh do next? How will we win? What changes will happen as a result?

The Alliance has been winning left right and center, but it's not very interesting. By lacking internal conflict, the Alliance becomes a generic blob lead by Varian. Inspite of winning, it doesn't feel meaningful.

[Gestopft]

As someone who plays both sides...this is like a dick-measuring contest...only fighting to see who is smaller.

[Drilnos]

People can't tell the difference between winning a story and having an interesting story.

The Horde have a very interesting story. Demoralizing, but interesting. Who will die? What will Garrosh do next? How will we win? What changes will happen as a result?

The Alliance has been winning left right and center, but it's not very interesting. By lacking internal conflict, the Alliance becomes a generic blob lead by Varian. Inspite of winning, it doesn't feel meaningful.

I do not find what I'm going through in this storyline to be interesting. I find it depressing. And all that crap is in the future anyway. Nobody knows what changes the Alliance is going to undergo going forward, as the Horde is busily castrating itself and will cease to be any sort of threat outside the occasional minor skirmish. What effect is that going to have to the command structure? Will it make the Alliance less prepared to deal with new threats? And who among you even realized this was a question that bore asking?

[namelessone]

Quality thread...you complaining about people complaining...take your own advice.

He's not complaining, he's telling them to shut the hell up. Telling someone to stop complaining =/= complaining.

[roahn the warlock]

Yeah, I think the Alliance forgets TBC and WRATH was about them and us being cannon fodder

[Darmalus]

I do not find what I'm going through in this storyline to be interesting. I find it depressing. And all that crap is in the future anyway. Nobody knows what changes the Alliance is going to undergo going forward, ...

I think what people are unconsciously afraid of is the Alliance won't have any changes going forward. That all will be cast into Varian's (and by extension, human) shadow.

They complain about lack of victories, but they don't lack victories. What they lack is development, internal differentiation. They demand conquest of Gilneas or Stromgard or the razing of Orgrimmar because they think these things will give them that sense of "For the Alliance!" that they crave. What they really need is identity, and randomly conquering scraps of land won't do that. People aren't happy with the identity the Alliance has developed, and no amount of conquest will fix that.

[Sukhoi]

Yeah, I think the Alliance forgets TBC and WRATH was about them and us being cannon fodder

Woah woah woah. How was tbe about alliance? It was about the naaru, the bes and the draenei. Id hardly call that alliance based.
Wotlk? are you serious? It was about the scourge.. How was it about alliance in any means. We might have raided UC, but that was after the undead threatened to destroy like half the world. Argent crusade was nuetral. Fordring just lead the pack. I love when people try to come up with random balances.

[Drilnos]

I think what people are unconsciously afraid of is the Alliance won't have any changes going forward. That all will be cast into Varian's (and by extension, human) shadow.

They complain about lack of victories, but they don't lack victories. What they lack is development, internal differentiation. They demand conquest of Gilneas or Stromgard or the razing of Orgrimmar because they think these things will give them that sense of "For the Alliance!" that they crave. What they really need is identity, and randomly conquering scraps of land won't do that. People aren't happy with the identity the Alliance has developed, and no amount of conquest will fix that.

Well get ready for some changes, because the Horde is going to be irrelevant after this whole debacle and the Alliance is going to take the full brunt of whatever threat comes next. Then we'll have a full expansion of the Alliance getting the lion's share of the "interesting developments" and we'll see how they like it.

[Scummer]

Yeah, I think the Alliance forgets TBC and WRATH was about them and us being cannon fodder

TBC was Horde. Sorry. The over arching stories were of the Blood Elves and Kael along with Thrall and the Magh'ar. The Draenei had a smidge of lore which culminated in progressing the Blood Elf story in a pretty damn major way.

[Slacker9]

Using covert op tactics to secure a front from Ashenvale for the night elves while Garrosh's attention is diverted to the rebellion happening just south? No no, a mechanical cat stealing papers will do. Because that's totally fist pumping content

^ this comment.
horde gets two awesome battle scenes and we get a cat.

[Drilnos]

Using covert op tactics to secure a front from Ashenvale for the night elves while Garrosh's attention is diverted to the rebellion happening just south? No no, a mechanical cat stealing papers will do. Because that's totally fist pumping content

^ this comment.
horde gets two awesome battle scenes and we get a cat.

There is nothing awesome about a civil war. Nobody wins a civil war, because at the end of the day you're just beating yourself up. You should count yourself lucky that you got to pilot a robot around instead of atrocitying up Goldshire.

[Aquamonkey]

Oh wow...so now the bullshit rules for neutrality are being applied to cities now? I'm out. If you can sit there and say with a straight face that the current storyline in Mop doesn't make Dalaran an Alliance city again then there is no point in even attempting discussion on this. OP I understand what you are trying to do here but these people aren't interested in discussion they would prefer to be perpetual professional victims regardless of what actually happens in Alliance lore.

Maybe you should read before you flip your shit.

"Dalaran hadn't been an Alliance city since it was destroyed by the Scourge during the 3rd War. It never joined the Alliance after it was rebuilt (until 5.1)."

[Darmalus]

Well get ready for some changes, because the Horde is going to be irrelevant after this whole debacle and the Alliance is going to take the full brunt of whatever threat comes next. Then we'll have a full expansion of the Alliance getting the lion's share of the "interesting developments" and we'll see how they like it.

This is exactly the mindset that causes these problems. War and internal development are not always linked in fiction. If the writers don't have time, don't realize the implications, or simply forget (hey, their human) you can have your entire faction come out of the war exactly the way they went in.

Alliance leadership is very, very stable. Internal dissent has been put down. The dwarves have been told to shut up, sit down and play nice. The nelfs have been put in their place. The draenei, pandaren, gnomes and worgen... exist. No serious challenges to the status quo exist currently. Now, that could all change, but it might not either. We could end the next expansion with the Alliance having slightly more crowded graveyards and little more.

What I'm on the edge of my seat for is what the Horde leadership winds up being after the SoO. Yet another War Chief? Maybe a council? Maybe the Horde will "dissolve" and slowly reform as something new over the next expansion?

I do agree that the best way to show the devastating effects of a civil war would be to have the Alliance be forced to go it alone for the first part. Wrathions nightmares come true! A divided Azeroth against whatever we end up fighting. Although in this case it would be an Azeroth divided by having the Horde too exhausted and war weary to help, rather than yet another HvA war.

[Melorandor]

I hope the next expansion pack is focused more on the Alliance than the Horde especially the Draenei. /Crossing fingers.

[Zulkhan]

Lol biased wall of text is biased. 2/10 made me respond

Biased poster is biased. Now join the whining crowd, before you'll feel alone.

OP, your efforts are admirable, but you're losing your time reasoning with the Alliance crybabies. Just let them drown in their endless complain and victimize themselves until the end of things.

---------- Post added 2013-06-14 at 09:12 PM ----------

The Alliance has been winning left right and center, but it's not very interesting. By lacking internal conflict, the Alliance becomes a generic blob lead by Varian. Inspite of winning, it doesn't feel meaningful.

But the crowd of whiners don't even see this. They act as the fucked, they have a crap storyline AND no winning, no retribution, no satisfaction, no "pumping fist" moment, NOTHING. Damn, it's ridicolous.

[Aquamonkey]

But you're just proving my point here. Dalaran was an Alliance city at some point, and we did lose it (to the Scourge)
And you mean High Elves taught the humans of Stormgarde how to use magic, Blood Elves didn't even exist back then.
They were close allies with the High Elves, not the Blood Elves. Heck, the Blood Elves weren't even admitted into the Kirin Tor until Aethas Sunreaver managed to convince the others on the Council of Six. (which was a bit before WotLK)

The Blood Elves are the same people as the High Elves from the Arathor era. Just because they changed their name as a memorial to those killed by the Scourge doesn't make them a completely separate entity.

The Blood Elf government didn't want anything to do with Dalaran after the 3rd War because the Kirin Tor and the Alliance betrayed them. There were a few individuals like Aethas who still wanted to be a part of Dalaran and were welcomed by the Kirin Tor before the Nexus War. Aethas was on the Council of Six at that time. He helped them rebuild Dalaran.

[Deleted]

The major flaw of Alliance side is that it's boring. Varyan waits... waits... waits... Hey Tyrande old 10.000 years bitch, l2p, waiting... Hey Jaina, relax girl, waiting...

[Drilnos]

This is exactly the mindset that causes these problems. War and internal development are not always linked in fiction. If the writers don't have time, don't realize the implications, or simply forget (hey, their human) you can have your entire faction come out of the war exactly the way they went in.

Alliance leadership is very, very stable. Internal dissent has been put down. The dwarves have been told to shut up, sit down and play nice. The nelfs have been put in their place. The draenei, pandaren, gnomes and worgen... exist. No serious challenges to the status quo exist currently. Now, that could all change, but it might not either. We could end the next expansion with the Alliance having slightly more crowded graveyards and little more.

What I'm on the edge of my seat for is what the Horde leadership winds up being after the SoO. Yet another War Chief? Maybe a council? Maybe the Horde will "dissolve" and slowly reform as something new over the next expansion?

I do agree that the best way to show the devastating effects of a civil war would be to have the Alliance be forced to go it alone for the first part. Wrathions nightmares come true! A divided Azeroth against whatever we end up fighting. Although in this case it would be an Azeroth divided by having the Horde too exhausted and war weary to help, rather than yet another HvA war.

For all intents and purposes the Horde has already dissolved. All of the faction leaders are acting on their own now. For the life of me I can't figure how there are still going to be meaningful numbers of orcs in it when it re-forms, and frankly I've lost the capacity to care.

I don't believe for a second that the writers are going to forget about the Alliance. They've painted themselves into a corner and made the Alliance the only game in town. They're the only ones they can write anything interesting about now.