1. #1

    My Modified LFR Loot System

    Why I feel it needs to change.
    In a perfect world I feel the Dragonsoul LFR loot system was the best, it felt like you were killing bosses and you were getting loot for killing them. The changes to the system had to be made because of people who abused the system but I feel the new system makes LFR worse. It feels very unrewarding and the raid itself feels like 1 giant trash pull where you are given participation rewards for being there instead of killing bosses for loot. The lack of control or choice of what you get also makes it feel like the moment you step foot into the instance it is decided what loot you are going to get and you gotta jump threw these hoops to see the bag you already won/lost.

    Personally I feel the fatal flaws in the current system are.
    1) Bosses don't drop anything - this is a staple for all MMORPGs and RPG's in general. After killing any boss running up and seeing what he drops is a HUGE part of the game. Nothing dropping after killing a boss completely deflates the kill.

    2) No choice over what you get - this also deflates a boss kill when you are given absolutely no choice over what item you get. I know the current loot system you have no choice over what drops but you can still decide if you want this item, or that item, or if you want none at all. Even though it's a small choice I've learned from my nieces it's better to give a small choice then no choice at all.

    3) Duplicate items - getting the same item multiple times is just salt in the wound.

    4) You already won/lost your item before the fight even started - when you get to a boss it feels like you already won/lost an item you just don't know it yet and won't know till after you kill the boss.

    The "Modified" Loot system.
    I decided to take the best from the Dragonsoul loot system and incorporate it into the current system while considering what I feel is hurting it. It'll work like this.

    When you kill a boss he will drop 6-7 different items. A window will pop up that shows all the items as icons with a button at the bottom called "Roll" and another button which I will explain in a little bit called "Chance". You will be able to hover over the icons to see what the items are and select which item you want to roll on. After you selected the item you hit the roll button and it will do the normal LFR "15%" chance to win the item. Everyone's chances will be separate meaning multiple people can win the exact same item if they are lucky enough to roll the 15%. If everyone fails on a particular item, aka no one got the 15%, the player who was the closest to winning the item gets it (so at least 7+ players should always win something). The last button called "Chance" uses the current LFR system. If you are unlucky and your item hasn't dropped you can take a gamble and see if you can win it that way (15% chance of winning an item, then it randomly decides what item you get). Blizzard could even make this "chance" option a 20% chance instead of the 15% since it's more of a gamble. If nobody rolls on an item nobody gets it (or it could be DEed and randomly sent to someone), this will make choice matter as you can pick an item you feel no one will roll on and maybe win it because no one else rolled on it etc. If you fail to win an item threw chance or just rolling on an item you are given the failbag instead.

    The reason why I like this system is because bosses will drop stuff again and it gives you a choice of what items you want (main spec/offspec etc). You can't abuse the system at all and it incorporates the old LFR system with the new.

    What do you guys think?
    Last edited by Raone; 2013-06-14 at 09:22 PM.

  2. #2
    You can only roll or chance on 1 item?

    I agree with the first half of your post, i too prefered dragon soul, even with the abuse, there were easy solutions. Making items unique pass, non tradable and making tier not drop in lfr. However blizzard didnt want to do this.

    I think the best solution is to make flex raids have a proper loot system, so we can get the pug raid feeling back, and then we can just forget about lfr looting, since there is an alternative.

  3. #3
    the old system was fine. just have the system make sure you cannot have a duplicate item on you, ie if you already have 384 shoulders you cannot win 384 shoulders again from lfr. instead of everyone hitting need (if you already have the item) and just allow for greed/de or pass. of course you can need if you do not have the item. but it cannot be in your bank/ storage/ or anywhere near your toon. also the items would be untrade-able to prevent boosting friends. you could benefit yourself though because items are unique so.

    its really sad to not see any of the loot. earlier this week my hunter did tot lfr, after winning tier legs on nalak. he used 6 mogu charms hoping for some decent gear on a full 12/12 boss run. managed to win 2 pieces from the raid. 1 was lfr legs off that bird, and the other was a useless trinket. so for loot chances im at 2/18. yay me for winning legs worse than mine.. and a trinket thats useless as piss.

  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk Sinndra's Avatar
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    nah dont need it.. the system we have is fine. not sure why people keep wanting to fix what works. im glad that i dont have to compete against anybody else, GREEDY players included, for my gear.
    Last edited by Sinndra; 2013-06-15 at 05:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    I do realize that this is an internet forum full of morons, however in real life, no one questions me, people look to me for the answer, look up to me, trust me. To have dipshits on a video game forum question me, is insulting.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Raone View Post
    Why I feel it needs to change.
    In a perfect world I feel the Dragonsoul LFR loot system was the best, it felt like you were killing bosses and you were getting loot for killing them. The changes to the system had to be made because of people who abused the system but I feel the new system makes LFR worse. It feels very unrewarding and the raid itself feels like 1 giant trash pull where you are given participation rewards for being there instead of killing bosses for loot. The lack of control or choice of what you get also makes it feel like the moment you step foot into the instance it is decided what loot you are going to get and you gotta jump threw these hoops to see the bag you already won/lost.

    Personally I feel the fatal flaws in the current system are.
    1) Bosses don't drop anything - this is a staple for all MMORPGs and RPG's in general. After killing any boss running up and seeing what he drops is a HUGE part of the game. Nothing dropping after killing a boss completely deflates the kill.

    2) No choice over what you get - this also deflates a boss kill when you are given absolutely no choice over what item you get. I know the current loot system you have no choice over what drops but you can still decide if you want this item, or that item, or if you want none at all. Even though it's a small choice I've learned from my nieces it's better to give a small choice then no choice at all.

    3) Duplicate items - getting the same item multiple times is just salt in the wound.

    4) You already won/lost your item before the fight even started - when you get to a boss it feels like you already won/lost an item you just don't know it yet and won't know till after you kill the boss.

    The "Modified" Loot system.
    I decided to take the best from the Dragonsoul loot system and incorporate it into the current system while considering what I feel is hurting it. It'll work like this.

    When you kill a boss he will drop 6-7 different items. A window will pop up that shows all the items as icons with a button at the bottom called "Roll" and another button which I will explain in a little bit called "Chance". You will be able to hover over the icons to see what the items are and select which item you want to roll on. After you selected the item you hit the roll button and it will do the normal LFR "15%" chance to win the item. Everyone's chances will be separate meaning multiple people can win the exact same item if they are lucky enough to roll the 15%. If everyone fails on a particular item, aka no one got the 15%, the player who was the closest to winning the item gets it (so at least 7+ players should always win something). The last button called "Chance" uses the current LFR system. If you are unlucky and your item hasn't dropped you can take a gamble and see if you can win it that way (15% chance of winning an item, then it randomly decides what item you get). Blizzard could even make this "chance" option a 20% chance instead of the 15% since it's more of a gamble. If nobody rolls on an item nobody gets it (or it could be DEed and randomly sent to someone), this will make choice matter as you can pick an item you feel no one will roll on and maybe win it because no one else rolled on it etc. If you fail to win an item threw chance or just rolling on an item you are given the failbag instead.

    The reason why I like this system is because bosses will drop stuff again and it gives you a choice of what items you want (main spec/offspec etc). You can't abuse the system at all and it incorporates the old LFR system with the new.

    What do you guys think?
    Your not really 'killing' a boss on LFR though. It's not a real boss, just a glorified target dummy, where all can do terrible dps/be afk and the boss falls over.

    If you want that 'boss down, loot!' feeling, go do normal or heroic. The feeling is still there.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Crushima View Post
    Your not really 'killing' a boss on LFR though. It's not a real boss, just a glorified target dummy, where all can do terrible dps/be afk and the boss falls over.

    If you want that 'boss down, loot!' feeling, go do normal or heroic. The feeling is still there.
    just leave now, okay?


    ot:it doesn´t need a fix

  7. #7
    Keeping 25 strangers from arguing over loot was the best thing to happen to LFR. To address your points:

    1) Even though the corpse doesn't sparkle, the boss still drops loot. My warrior got an axe from Lei Shen, and is really stoked about it.

    2) You don't choose the boss drops in a regular raid. When you are with friends and guildmates, you can create your own system of distribution for what drops, and the players at the top can pick and choose a bit, but with strangers there is no such system that everybody has agreed to.

    3) Bosses have been dropping duplicates forever. Usually, for popular items, someone else in your raid group will get it next time it drops, but with LFR, you aren't going to be raiding with the same 24 people next week. RNG has always been RNG.

    4) This isn't really much different from the traditional system. It just eliminates the /rolling and /fighting and /nerdraging over gear drops

    They even made the ever-dreaded bag of gold better.
    Last edited by Gestopft; 2013-06-15 at 06:11 AM.

  8. #8
    Both systems old and new are fine. People just need to stop complaining. The 'flaws' you say are in the current system are nothing at all:
    1) Yes they do.
    2) "Before I could choose to get nothing at all" is not a meaningful choice. Nobody in their right mind, all other things being equal, would choose nothing over something.
    3) Duplicate items are a basic part of wow looting, always have been.
    4) I have no idea where you're coming from here. How is that any different to any other loot system?

    As for your idea, it's basically exactly the same as the current loot system, except with an increased chance to get what you want. That won't fly. Under that system you'd have less than 15% chance to get what you roll on, probably 7.5% to balance it out so you don't gear too fast. So at the end of the day you'd have about the same chance to get exactly what you want and less chance to get something you didn't want so much because it's a smaller upgrade or to DE/vendor.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingblaze View Post
    I think the best solution is to make flex raids have a proper loot system, so we can get the pug raid feeling back, and then we can just forget about lfr looting, since there is an alternative.
    That was my initial thought, too, but after reading the reason they made it LFR-loot, it makes complete sense and I'm okay with it. It would be great if they could make it work, but really, even if they tiered out the amount of loot you got per additional person, you'd still try to have fewer people to get more chances for loot. Ten people would be 2 piece, 14 would be 3, 18 would be 4, 22 would be 5, 25 would be 6? I actually don't know how much loot drops in 25 mans heh, but my point is you would be discouraged to bring say 13 people because you'd still only be getting two pieces of loot with more people to share it with, you wouldn't want to bring 17 - you'd want to bump it down to 14 (or up to 18 if you could, and then no higher) - so that you had fewer people competing for loot. And then if you did bring 13 or 17 people, you'd have less chance of getting loot overall and it would be disappointing... probably more disappointing than LFR-loot.

    The proposed system isn't awful, but it seems overly complicated. I mean, I've seen someone ask in a raid group as recently as two days ago "Why can't I loot the boss?" or last week, "Where is the loot?" They still don't know that it's auto-rolled for them. If these kinds of people had to figure out which one piece of loot to "roll" for and they still didn't win, and there was all this other loot, and they had no idea what was going on... chaos.

    All in all, the current LFR system is fine. I've adjusted to the idea of having my loot auto-rolled for me and the pros outweigh the cons in my opinion. The group immediately moves on, no arguments over loot, not having it stolen by someone who has it or has better just because they're a dick. The whole "not getting loot" thing is an illusion. You do get loot. The boss is dropping some loot and you're having a chance to get some of it. When you don't get any, you lost the roll, or something you needed didn't even drop. People complain about not getting anything for weeks in LFR now - the same thing happened before, but before you had to watch that piece of loot go to some asshole who had heroic gear and just wanted to be a douche.
    Last edited by Pascal; 2013-06-15 at 06:34 AM.

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