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  1. #1
    High Overlord Drweird's Avatar
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    Balance Treant Advice

    Hey all,

    So I recently started re playing my boomkin because my guilds needs it for raid comp. I noticed that treants are the pure single target best dps choice. Pretty much only for Jin Roh and the achievment mode primordius. I noticed though that it now has 3 "charges" per se instead of being a one and done pop. I obviously pop the first set when i have celestial alignment proc'd. from there on in is it better to pop them on cooldown, or wait till i have 3 charges again and unload all 3 of them? I always only pop them in solar eclipse obviously. Any help much appreciated.

    here is my armory, any character help would be welcome too

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...cules/advanced

    thanks! Broc

  2. #2
    Use them with procs. So int buffs and NG, etc. They dynamically use your stats -- although haste takes a few seconds to update. CA does not give a damage boost the treants, just like eclipse. The tooltip does not reflect this properly. It is still good to use the treants on the start w/ CA because of the RPPM system your procs should be up anyways.
    Last edited by boomkinhero; 2013-06-09 at 02:46 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Drweird View Post
    Hey all,

    So I recently started re playing my boomkin because my guilds needs it for raid comp. I noticed that treants are the pure single target best dps choice. Pretty much only for Jin Roh and the achievment mode primordius. I noticed though that it now has 3 "charges" per se instead of being a one and done pop. I obviously pop the first set when i have celestial alignment proc'd. from there on in is it better to pop them on cooldown, or wait till i have 3 charges again and unload all 3 of them? I always only pop them in solar eclipse obviously. Any help much appreciated.

    here is my armory, any character help would be welcome too

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...cules/advanced

    thanks! Broc
    Just a few tips.

    1. Eclipse is irrelevant to the treants, only NG is. So you can use them pretty much any time its up.
    2. They are useful for alot of other bosses. (Horridon/tortos/megaera/qon/twins) Only ones i wouldnt use them on is council/ji kun/primo for sure.
    3. If you are following your trinket procs/wep procs properly you can line them up with the treants.

    Overall they are a good choice vs Inc, in the end they are both viable options wich is great.

  4. #4
    This is a pretty crappy tier for FoN, at least from a heroic perspective.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zamn View Post
    This is a pretty crappy tier for FoN, at least from a heroic perspective.
    They've done pretty well for me.. compared to incarnation except on say horridon, council, animus, primordius

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by artem123 View Post
    They've done pretty well for me.. compared to incarnation except on say horridon, council, animus, primordius
    On horridon they are also good, if your guild has enough dps not to worry about adds anymore.

  7. #7
    Target swapping wrecks treant targetting. Heroic Iron Qon during transitions the damned pieces of wood are just trees, giving back oxygen.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by boomkinhero View Post
    Target swapping wrecks treant targetting. Heroic Iron Qon during transitions the damned pieces of wood are just trees, giving back oxygen.
    unless its the first time doing the fight EVER, you know when target switching is about to happen. Aka use it afterwards, or enoughtime beforehand

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by boomkinhero View Post
    Target swapping wrecks treant targetting. Heroic Iron Qon during transitions the damned pieces of wood are just trees, giving back oxygen.
    You want Incarnation anyways for Iron Qon heroic for the last phase? To be fair, I hate pets as the AI is usually so bloody derpy, so I just keep using Incarnation on every fight and still getting ranked on regular basis. So the difference between Incarnation and FoN can't be that large, I'm afraid.
    Last edited by Rocketbear; 2013-06-11 at 03:43 AM.
    Check out my youtube channel of fail: http://www.youtube.com/EliteRocketbear

    8/8Hc DS

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketbear View Post
    So the difference between Incarnation and FoN can't be that large, I'm afraid.
    It is very large, as far as single-target damage is concerned.

  11. #11
    Blademaster Tyriama's Avatar
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    Singletarget, PW-style fight you'll see the treants quite far ahead.

    However, as I've discussed countless times with the two other boomies in our 25man team; they are glitchy in the AI, VERY dependant that they can attack the same target for their 15second duration, and do not benefit (afaik) from temporary damage buffs on the druid after they are casted, or from damage buffs on the ground (Jin).

  12. #12
    Field Marshal
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    I tried the Treants on Iron Qon HC this week and got far less dps out of them than I did with Incarnation - there must be something about the fight they don't like, because their percentage of my overall damage was far less than I've observed on something like Megaera.

  13. #13
    I stick to Incarnation, besides Lei Shen (I think they are amazing there, since you get charges during the transition), Twin Consorts and Qon Nhc. Though I always rage when one of my treants starts running and melee. Every fight with target switching and mostly multitarget dps, they dont seem to be quite benificial to me. Is there any boss you use Soul of the forest? I didnt touch that talent besides 1-2 challenge modes.
    Last edited by Krisby; 2013-06-11 at 05:17 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
    I tried the Treants on Iron Qon HC this week and got far less dps out of them than I did with Incarnation - there must be something about the fight they don't like, because their percentage of my overall damage was far less than I've observed on something like Megaera.
    Did you use them around the time the targets swapped (a Quillen died and another one spawned)?

  15. #15
    Field Marshal
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    It's possible I did, I can't accurately recall. I'll keep a tighter watch on the boss' health next time and try them again, thanks.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutheru View Post
    It is very large, as far as single-target damage is concerned.
    In theory. In practice the AI is still dumb as balls. And how many pure single target fights do we have in this tier? Barely any. My treants still constantly go around melee hitting mobs for no real reason.

    As I said before, Use incarnation for Iron Qon heroic. Only your dps in the last phase with all 3 quillen matters.
    Last edited by Rocketbear; 2013-06-16 at 12:17 AM.
    Check out my youtube channel of fail: http://www.youtube.com/EliteRocketbear

    8/8Hc DS

  17. #17
    Incarnation still makes you into a fursuit, so the treants have THAT going for them if nothing else.

    Another thing that isn't important this tier but could be eventually, is the root the treants cast.

    And how many pure single target fights do we have in this tier? Barely any.
    True, but for a treant to do his job, all he needs is that there's one target for 15 seconds. Other indications that might make the treants better include fight pacing (say you need small amount of burst more often than every three minutes), or if the aoe phases don't matter much or are super under control, but a single target isn't or could use more.


    I just like that they have a use now.

  18. #18
    There is one thing i want to note about rppm trinkets:

    They do not proc at the start of a fight. This is what a lot of better players telling new players. This is simply wrong.

    Rppm trinkets will proc with a chance of about ~ 90% in the first 30 secs (depends a bit on haste and the specific trinket) if you ignoring trash fights, dont use any dps abilitys for a time of 5 minutes before you encounter a boss. In my understanding this is not fair and not social at all against the other dps classes. If you discuss tactics or you have to wait for someone beeing afk for such a long time you can predict a huge possibility of getting the proc.

    How ever most of the fights you engage an encounter again after a wipe in less then 3 minutes and therefor its possible that you dont get any procs at the start of a fight at all from rppm trinkets.

    And by the way: rppm is shit. Thx to god there are a lot of procs without this luckdepending system and THEY will proc on the start of every fight with a high chance. So its right to use your treants with in that time while your prepot is running.

    There are two rules about treants:

    1. use them so that there is allways one on cd (else you loose uptime)
    2. use them all if possibly with the most procs active (a mechanic a bit like mages ignite > you know what i mean)

    To track this and handle it right will the treants buff in about 20-30% +dmg. They do about 7-11% of your total damage and if you buff them (which means a lot of attention to pay for) they will do ~ 10-14% of your total damage.

    If just macro them to your hard casts you fully ignore FoN at all. Then it gets an passive dmg increase and you can focus fully on your rotation, multidotting, ss-procs and the boss-mechanics what pays out (in my opinion) in more dps then FoN can provide (especially for new players).

  19. #19
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitestrife View Post
    There is one thing i want to note about rppm trinkets:

    They do not proc at the start of a fight.
    I think that i've accually read a blue where it was said that they made it so that they accually would have a very high chance of proccing during the initiate and we know they dont have an internal CD or anything like you suggest.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadde111 View Post
    I think that i've accually read a blue where it was said that they made it so that they accually would have a very high chance of proccing during the initiate and we know they dont have an internal CD or anything like you suggest.
    They do have a dynamic proc chance based on the last proc in seconds (depends on rppm-rate, haste and time) so no - you are wrong.

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