i have a feeling if someone attacked you, held you down and force fed you anything, even prying your jaws open, you'd be more than "a little annoyed".
but you are implicitly stating that women want to be raped (which would be an oxymoron btw) in much the same way as you want to eat a porkchop, and that the only reason they wouldnt want it is because they are taught not to (like not eating certain foods).
The point to be noted, that I guess I should've taken greater pains to concretely establish earlier on, is that if our culture results in harm of one sort or the other, then it shouldn't be done away with just to prevent those harms.
My sense of ownership of my house and my various properties is a social construct. Laws, and legal documents all make them mine. If someone stole something of mine, I would feel wronged, because of that very sense of ownership. You wouldn't deny this, would you? Yet, you also wouldn't agree that I were suggesting we do away with the concept of ownership just so people can't be victims of theft anymore.
To quote myself from a page ago, on the reasons why rape is as disturbing as it is, "Because it would be a violation of your sexual sovereignty. Your sense of dignity and modesty are thrown to the wayside and trod on repeatedly. Your autonomy over your body is compromised in a way that leaves you shaken."
Likewise, I am in no way suggesting that society be regressed to a point where such concepts as bodily-autonomy and sexual sovereignty do no exist, just so they can't be violated.
Following that trail of non-logic to read something into my argument, that I expressly said was not the case, is akin to saying something ridiculous along the lines of 'That guy said pedophilia involves children. He must be implying society shouldn't have babies anymore.'
You will never see me disagree with this.
Really? I think I have the same position on rape as most people as far as its criminal nature is concerned.
I know many Muslims that would have you believe it's worse.
Last edited by Velaniz; 2013-06-18 at 07:15 AM.
Last edited by TirielWoW; 2013-06-18 at 07:10 AM. Reason: Because even if someone is dumb, I should be polite.
Stop using the Islam argument about porkchops.
It's incredibly silly.
If a Muslim accidentally eats pork and feels like he did something wrong there are steps he can take to alleviate his guilt built into the religion.
That's not apples and oranges you're comparing when you compare rape to a Muslim eating a bite of pork. It's comparing apples and quasars.
Everyone seems eager to find me revolting in one way or another, so I'll give you more reasons to.
I think that burglary is a crime because people are entitled to ownerships of property. I must be suggesting that no one should own anything. There you go, hate away.
I also think spousal cheating is hurtful only because of the nature of the institution of marriage that we've created. I must be a big time polygamy advocate, right? Please don't let me get away easy.
Sorry, I missed the hidden non-written cues typed in invisible pixels.
---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 07:16 AM ----------
No, it doesn't work, one is accidentally breaking a proscription for which there are simple and easy remedies, the other is being assaulted and violated in nearly every way possible.
Pretty much nothing. Which is sad, since it's the worst kind of result this situation could have had.
The girl will never get over this completely, is needless to say. And even to the extent that she may come to, some kind of, terms with it, she will do it regardless of her rapists' fate. Her struggle is sadly very personal, and she is the only one to be able to succeed in coming through it. Help will of course be invaluable, but merely help.
They, on the other hand, are going to learn nothing. Most of the repercussions of their actions will come from social stigma, to which they will have no proper way to react. So either they will leave a miserable life, end their life, or react by becoming even worse. In all cases society becomes that much worse for this.
And all the way, nothing will be done about their family situation, which should be the one to be thoroughly investigated. Because how can a child growing up in a caring family ever do something like that unless he/she is suffering from some kind of mental defect? Either they are all mentally defective, in which case they need help; or there is something quite wrong with their family situation. And community service won't change that.
This seems to be one of the cases where the law is almost utterly useless, providing a formal service that is extremely detached from any practical or ethical value.
Last edited by Drithien; 2013-06-18 at 07:26 AM.
Unless you're Muslim yourself, I assure you I have more experience with Islam. I have worked with Muslims, come from an area of the world with quite a few Muslims, and some of my nearest and dearest friends have been Muslim.
Do you know terms like fiqh? Kufr? Iman? Madhhab? Have you studied Islamic history? Did you go to school and prepare for a career that involves knowledge of not just Islam but the political and cultural movements within the Islamic world like salafism?
Maybe individual Muslims would be more aghast than others at accidentally consuming pork, and accidentally committing a sin.
If one is forced because there is no other choice, neither craving nor transgressing, there is no sin on him. - Surah 2:173
Neither craving nor transgressing, that includes accidentally consuming pork.
Your comparison continues to ring hollow.
Last edited by Stelio Kontos; 2013-06-18 at 07:30 AM.
Has anyone ever considered how many rapes go unreported? Bear in mind that rape is a crime in which the alleged victim is always treated like a criminal, and often the alleged rapist is treated like a victim. Why would someone want to put themselves through that, of having their character attacked by their community on top of having already been raped? For what? 100 hours of community service as a punishment?
Why would someone want to put themselves through that, and to even have their accusations be validated, but then be told that they are only worth 100 hours of community service?
Have you ever considered why rape victims are told that they're so brave for having come forward? Why should seeking justice be an act of courage?
How many of you would volunteer yourself for the abuse that is to be expected with seeking justice, if you expected your assailant to receive 100 hours of community service?
Last edited by AndaliteBandit; 2013-06-18 at 07:43 AM.