Do you think that Islam is due for a "Reformation"?

[FTAzai]

The more we compare Sunni Islam and its various sects today, and Catholic Christianity around 1500 CE, the more parallelisms we see between the two, with a strong entrenchment of religion with government, punishments and a reliance on codefied sharia law (which has been adjusted numerous times throughout history according to various interpretations of the Qu'ran) to enact what most people see as cruel actions for often the slightest behaviors, endemic warfare, the oppression of women, and growing use of a new revolutionary technology for communication (the internet, today's version of the printing press). While there may not be indulgences, the ability to pay out of crimes with money according to sharia law, and the ability to go to heaven through acts of extreme violence (according to fringe fundamentalist groups) can also serve as frighteningly similar reminders of what happens when you mix secular actions with religion.

Seeing that Islam is about 600 years younger than Christianity, the timing seems about right for a new religious movement to come about, especially with the political turmoil going on in the Middle East today. Perhaps this political turmoil, much like the Schisms of Christianity, will serve as a turning point in the history of Islam, and perhaps the history of all religions.

So what do you guys think? Is this in the making during our lifetimes?


Please keep the discussion civil. I'd actually like this to be an interesting thread. Save the reactionary comments for your blogs.

[Spectral]

I think its abject failure to advance has more to do with the cultures and regions it exists in than the religion. American Muslims, as a whole, are peaceful and productive citizens. More conservative than I'd prefer, but whatever.

[Elegiac]

Considering that the Reformation was responsible for the creation of the majority of Christian fundamentalist sects in existence at present....I'd say no. Furthermore, I would suggest learning about the circumstances surrounding the Protestant Reformation before comparing Islam to Christianity in that case.

[Deleted]

Considering that the Reformation was responsible for the creation of the majority of Christian fundamentalist sects in existence at present....I'd say no. Furthermore, I would suggest learning about the circumstances surrounding the Protestant Reformation before comparing Islam to Christianity in that case.

I would even argue that Salafism/Wahhabism is close the Reformation. A close alliance to national monarchs and literalist exegesis of the holy books (Luther), rigid morality and iconoclasm (Calvin), plunging a country in a decades-long religious civil war fueled by foreign imperialist powers (Germany 17th century, Afghanistan now)...

[FTAzai]

Considering that the Reformation was responsible for the creation of the majority of Christian fundamentalist sects in existence at present....I'd say no. Furthermore, I would suggest learning about the circumstances surrounding the Protestant Reformation before comparing Islam to Christianity in that case.

The Reformation was also responsible for being the catalyst that began to separate church and state. Are you perhaps familiar with the Anglican Church and Henry VIII? Or perhaps the Anabaptists, a religious group that SUPPORTED The separation of church and state, and therefore were persecuted to the extreme wherever they appeared?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabaptist#Legacy

Of course there were MANY splinter groups, some more radical in certain areas than others, but the Reformation as an event itself contributed to the decline of religion's importance in politics itself. After the 1500s, how often has the Catholic Church, for example, been as politically relevant as it used to during the Middle Ages in Europe?

I'm very familiar with the causes of the Reformation in Europe, and how you can never really compare that situation to the world today, but there are some grave parallelisms that could be explored and discussed. Perhaps tomorrow is the day where the Muslim world will never be the same.

[Elegiac]

The Reformation was also responsible for being the catalyst that began to separate church and state. Are you perhaps familiar with Presbytarianism in Scotland, and the Anglican Church and Henry VIII? Or perhaps the Anabaptists, a religious group that SUPPORTED The separation of church and state, and therefore were persecuted to the extreme wherever they appeared?

Which is an essential form of rubbish because although some Protestant groups might have furthered the cause of secularism, Western Christianity has always had a tradition of separation of church and state.

Of course there were MANY splinter groups, some more radical in certain areas than others, but the Reformation as an event itself contributed to the decline of religion's importance in politics itself. After the 1500s, how often has the Catholic Church, for example, been as politically relevant as it used to during the Middle Ages in Europe?

I'm very familiar with the causes of the Reformation in Europe, and how you can never really compare that situation to the world today, but there are some grave parallelisms that could be explored and discussed. Perhaps tomorrow is the day where the Muslim world will never be the same.

The fact that Islam does not exist under a central ecclesiastical authority seems to have escaped you.

[Korgoth]

It should modernize to become compatible with modern societies core principles of freedom and civil rights, or it should be destroyed.

[Elim Garak]

It's overdue.

[FTAzai]

Which is an essential form of rubbish because although some Protestant groups might have furthered the cause of secularism, Western Christianity has always had a tradition of separation of church and state.

Really? Which is why the Catholic Church and its domains across Europe was powerful enough to be seen as a threat and a lucrative target by many Western European rulers throughout the history of Western Europe? Do you remember what the First Estate of the Estates-General was?

Clearly, if separation of church and state, where religious authorities do not make the decisions and do not sponsor a state religion, has been a tradition long held in esteem by Western Europe... I can't seriously continue this argument because that contention is already ridiculous.

The fact that Islam does not exist under a central ecclesiastical authority seems to have escaped you.

Neither does Christianity. Yet the various sects in the past and present today have had figures which spoke for entire sects or even claimed sovereignty over all Muslims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliph (You know, rulers of the Sunni Islamic world, last one died out with the Ottoman Empire, the last Sunni empire to hold sway over the majority of the Middle East)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marja%27_%28Islamic_law%29 For Shi'ite Islam, a popular example can be found in Iran with Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei today.

[Kasierith]

Discussions on religion are not permitted here, as per the general off-topic forum rules and guidelines. Even if we occasionally allow a conversation to touch on religion somewhat, a topic based very exclusively on the modern progress of a particular religion is not permissible.

Closed.