Confused about the whole legal (illegal) immigrant talks in the US...

[Vallon]

undocumented immigrant is just a soft and nice way to say illegal law breaking person. Just like Shell shock is now PTSD. America is big on soft.
Most farm growing is antiquated. Raise the beds and use a drip system or use an NFT hydroponic system etc. Solutions can be easy. The argument that the work wouldnt be done is true in the short run. Long term government would subsidize worker fees. Technology would be advanced instead of just new trackers, etc.

Is it fair a hardworking pharmacists wife is not able to get her paperwork though because shes French and has to wait, but if you live in the same continent you get to do whatever you want and cut in front of people. Idk but it doesnt seem too fair to me. Lets let a bunch of Koreans and Swedish in and then have TV/packaging material in their languages and get some real diversity. etc. Hey heres an idea lets really go for this open immigration thing and import 10 million Chinese that are impoverished in north east China too. Because if im to be fair, im going to be fair to everyone

[oxymoronic]

Because immigration to the US is extraordinarily expensive, time-consuming, and discriminatory against low-income people. It needs to be rectified to include a more comprehensive work-visa program for low-income workers from places like Mexico.

So I was right the best way would be visas for low income workers. I feel so validated! They need a system where u can work 7 years on a plantation to earn your citizenship.

[Elegiac]

undocumented immigrant is just a soft and nice way to say illegal law breaking person. Just like Shell shock is now PTSD. America is big on soft.
Most farm growing is antiquated. Raise the beds and use a drip system or use an NFT hydroponic system etc. Solutions can be easy. The argument that the work wouldnt be done is true in the short run. Long term government would subsidize worker fees. Technology would be advanced instead of just new trackers, etc.

Is it fair a hardworking pharmacists wife is not able to get her paperwork though because shes French and has to wait, but if you live in the same continent you get to do whatever you want and cut in front of people. Idk but it doesnt seem too fair to me. Lets let a bunch of Koreans and Swedish in and then have TV/packaging material in their languages and get some real diversity. etc. Hey heres an idea lets really go for this open immigration thing and import 10 million Chinese that are impoverished in north east China too. Because if im to be fair, im going to be fair to everyone

Fun Fact: Despite the fact the technology exists, it's still not economical by definition. If it were, then companies would be using it in a very widespread manner.

Secondly, nobody is calling for unrestricted immigration. What is being called for is a relaxation of immigration policies for low income people from Latin America.

[Chrysia]

I can't believe people still think this is true. I really don't give a shit what studies show. There is law abiding citizens, and criminals. That's it. You can be the poorest person in the world (third world countries) yet you don't go killing people, doing drugs, selling drugs, etc. Such a bullshit excuse.

People in third world countries don't have models of advancement that give them a glimpse of a life without poverty, but last I checked, third world countries do indeed have very high homocide and suicide rates.

It is inconsequential, though, because you ignored most of my point. They aren't criminals because they are black. They are criminals because they are desperate and see gangs as a way out of that situation. Reduce the desperation, cripple the profit margin on the drug trade, and you'll see marked improvement, which we haven't seen with these ludicrous sentences that are regularly harsher against blacks.

[chrisberb]

People in third world countries don't have models of advancement that give them a glimpse of a life without poverty, but last I checked, third world countries do indeed have very high homocide and suicide rates.

It is inconsequential, though, because you ignored most of my point. They aren't criminals because they are black. They are criminals because they are desperate and see gangs as a way out of that situation. Reduce the desperation, cripple the profit margin on the drug trade, and you'll see marked improvement, which we haven't seen with these ludicrous sentences that are regularly harsher against blacks.

Him and oxymoronic don't care about facts, studies, or statistics..because in their mind they're all wrong.

[alturic]

So why can't they do it legally? Were they are documented, and have a social security number, and make sure the proper taxes are being paid by employers/employees?

Sometimes they do have a SS#. The problem is that 8 Juans use the same number.

---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 01:57 PM ----------

Because immigration to the US is extraordinarily expensive, time-consuming, and discriminatory against low-income people. It needs to be rectified to include a more comprehensive work-visa program for low-income workers from places like Mexico.

I'm going to go on a limb here and say that you also believe certain "groups" of people are more prone to violence, drug use (costs money, unless you want to say they mug/kill people (see: violence) for the drugs), robberies, etc because they are inherently pre-disposed to break the law due to their social (what the fuck?) and/or financial (again, what the fuck, I can count more than a handful of people I know that live paycheck to paycheck, and even a few living off the government who don't break the law) situations that they are born into?

---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 01:58 PM ----------

While I do not disagree with your point. I'm merely am stating I do not accept letting illegals into the country because " they work shit jobs no one else wants" as a viable excuse.

+9000, then again, our wonderful leader just wants to let them in even though they broke the law.

---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 02:02 PM ----------

Fun Fact: Despite the fact the technology exists, it's still not economical by definition. If it were, then companies would be using it in a very widespread manner.

Secondly, nobody is calling for unrestricted immigration. What is being called for is a relaxation of immigration policies for low income people from Latin America.

Is there a whole lot of illegal immigrants who came here with money? Oh wait, you're saying if you have money you somehow buy your way into the front of the line? What they are saying IS unrestricted immigration. It's NOTHING more than a reboot of the current immigration law. If you don't know what I mean... our wonderful president says "we concede. we can't enforce our current immigration law because the hispanics simply overwhelm the agencies responsable for enforcing our current law, so what we're going to do, allow them all to be legal and from X day forward we're going to try to enforce the law now." It's insanity to the max.

---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 02:03 PM ----------

People in third world countries don't have models of advancement that give them a glimpse of a life without poverty, but last I checked, third world countries do indeed have very high homocide and suicide rates.

It is inconsequential, though, because you ignored most of my point. They aren't criminals because they are black. They are criminals because they are desperate and see gangs as a way out of that situation. Reduce the desperation, cripple the profit margin on the drug trade, and you'll see marked improvement, which we haven't seen with these ludicrous sentences that are regularly harsher against blacks.

Oh, so you think all blacks that commit crimes are in gangs? That's even better than believing they do it because of social and/or financial reasons. Also, to think (I know you aren't saying this exactly) allowing the government to sell drugs at cost (example obviously) would somehow stop blacks from commit crimes is hilarious as well.

---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 02:16 PM ----------

Him and oxymoronic don't care about facts, studies, or statistics..because in their mind they're all wrong.

Here's some facts for you. I don't live in a major metro area (philly/nyc), and while there is parts of the cities around me with projects (hud housing) blacks are definitely not the dominant color around here. If I was motivated enough to do my own "study", I can almost G-U-A-R-A-N-T-E-E you that 90+% of crimes committed where I live are committed by blacks. Now, I know that is clearly not an unbiased study, but in all reality is ANY study unbiased? It's all going to be biased to the area(s) that they looked at.

Obviously if my area has more crimes committed by blacks than any other color here, CLEARLY areas with more blacks would have an even higher rate of crime.

My whole point, and I'm not racist (I don't "hate" blacks) is that it is laughable at best to say blacks commit more crime than other races because of their "social" or "financial" up-bringing. I can guarantee you there is more "poverty level" members on this forum than not. I can also guarantee you that MAYBE ~1% of them have raped, shot at someone, knifed, killed, been in a gang, etc.

If you understand my whole point is that without asking EVERY single person in the country if they have ever done X you will never have a "true" solid number.

In other words, ask yourself this, when you (on your local news) hear about rapes, shootings, knifings, robberies, carjacking, what color is the person?

Let me put it this way, and I truly think you would be hard-pressed to find information that disagrees with the following "colors" who are more partial to committing these crimes:

Rapes: Mix, although I'd say whites by a SLIM margin
Molestation: Almost always whites.
Robberies: Mix, although I'd say blacks predominantly.
Shootings: Blacks, hands-down.
Muggings: Blacks, hands-down.
Anything involving drugs: Blacks, HANDS-DOWN.
DUI: Whites (ooooh, maybe this is because blacks don't have money? lol)
Arson: Whites, hands-down.

If that is racist, then I guess I am a racist, even though I don't hate, nor feel the urge to send blacks back to africa nor hurt blacks or anything like that. Hell, as much as I want hispanics to go back to their countries of origin I don't have any of those feelings for them either.

[Rooflesstoofless]

If they are gainfully employed I say keep 'em. If they are just mooching off the system or committing crimes then deport their sorry asses.

I live in an area that is almost entirely Hispanic and several of my neighbors are illegal. BUT they are also hard working people with a great work ethic who just want to make a good life for themselves and their children...something that would not have been possible with the economic and social conditions in Mexico.

Unfortunately, you also have the people who have immigrated here and are uneducated enough to play into the racist propaganda of "white people stole this land from YOU and therefore you have the right to be there and act hateful toward any you may come across". Nevermind they've been here for a few years and their family has been in southern Mexico for generations and mine has been in California since before it was a state...I still stole it from them.