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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Jodmos View Post
    They'll do nothing.

    I play on a PVE realm (Mostly as alliance though I have horde characters as well). During an Oondasta raid a couple of horde kept pulling all the dinos nearby into the raid causing some wipes. Unlike a PVP realm where you can just keep killing them for doing it, there is no defence as they weren't flagged. I reported this and basically got told that they had as much right to be in that area as the raid did.

    Blizzard, as usual, will wait until the horse has bolted before closing the stable door. I'm sure they are reasonably aware of numbers of peopleleaving the game due to similar asshattery.

    Kymei - just because there are options doesn't mean you aren't affected. If I want to do something and some idiot decides it would be fun to screw it up for me, that is affecting my game. The fact I could go away and doing something else is irrelevant. Toxic behaviour isn't exclusive to communication. Actions speak louder than words.
    And what did you actually report to Blizzard? That they were disrupting game play or that they were just annoying you in general? Again this is a situation that occurs frequently in customer support forums and it is generally always the case that a lack of action on Blizzard's part was a direct result of a player not reporting the issue correctly or with enough specifics in order for Blizzard to do something. Also a lot of times players will take canned responses to mean Blizzard is going to ignore the issue when that just simply isn't the case.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Those of you wanting to hop on the OP's bandwagon should take a look at this thread first:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...He-is-a-newbie!

    He defends some rather toxic behavior while being incredibly insulting and condescending to those who disagree with him. He is the last person who should be complaining about toxic behavior.

    Look in a mirror buddy. You are no better than the people you are constantly attacking.
    In what way is a guy RAF/boosting a clueless new player "toxic behavior"? That's the "toxic behavior" I'm defending. Because it's not toxic behavior, it's mildly inconvenient behavior.

    I swear, I don't think you even read what I wrote. I went back and re-read it and I am fine with all of it. But that's off-topic and I'm not going to go there. Just shut up and contribute usefully to this thread if you can.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by wynnyelle View Post
    The thing is, Riot has more to gain from banning players in LoL than Blizzard does.
    Banning players only needs to be done in the most extreme cases, in which players refuse to respond to 'education' and correction. The existing ban system is quite effective.

    Greater enforcement of the ban system will NOT fix the problem with toxic players however. As Riot showed, some basic system changes can help alter the nature of players' interactions, and this may also be possible in WoW.

    Would it be beneficial to WoW if you got say... +5 vp per person you queued with in a dungeon/scenario/LFR ? You'd still hit the same hardcap, but it would encourage socialization again to maximize time & effort.

    Heroic scenarios are an extreme example, as they give a HUGE boost in VP compared to dungeons & raids, and also *require* that you bring 2 others with you... but I think this shows that people WILL be social if its in their best interests. The problem has been though, that the game has rewarded socials and antisocials roughly equally since LFG was introduced.

    It used to be, if you were a dick... people didnt want to do dungeons or raids with you... which meant you couldnt get gear, or got it more slowly than those who were nice/social. *regardless of 'skill'*. Granted, this created a huge problem for guilds that got sick of running new recruits through old raids and such in order to 'catch them up', and the changes in quality of life over the last expansions have largely cured this... what fell by the wayside though, is the communities' ability to selfcorrect itself by avoiding toxic players.

    Which is why we need modifications to existing game mechanics that encourage positive play.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    The most surprising thing in this thread has to be how many people are actually indirectly defending the toxic players somehow believing that they have a right to be toxic. A newsflash for you is that toxic behaviour beyond a certain degree has never been tolerated, and that the only reason why most toxic players are still around is that it's extremely hard to punish everyone, especially when much of the griefing and toxic behaviour happens outside of reportable text.
    It doesn't need to be text though. If players are specific enough in what happened and who was involved and where Blizzard is usually able to check logs to determine what exactly happened and take action from there but unfortunately a lot of players have decided it isn't their "job" to tell Blizzard what happened and for some inexplicable reason Blizzard is obligated to be a mind reader to handle these issues.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    So it takes over a month for anything to be done after being reported every single day for a month? Yeah I give up thinking they do anything.
    There is probably more to this story then. I'm assuming what you reported them for every day for a month was either a shoddy report with no corroborating evidence or it was something that they really didn't care about (i.e. something that happened to offend you but not actually a violation of the ToS).

    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Kinda hard considering you can't ignore someone until after the dungeon/LFR don't ya think?
    Not true at all. The instant you report someone in-game they automatically go on your iggy list for 3 days. That includes mid-dungeon/LFR.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Strakha View Post
    It's not as much as defending the player that is being a douche as it is to decry blizzard for being ignorant of the problem. We all know they won't get banned, and the player that is being a douche knows it as well.

    There have always been asshats on WoW and I've only seen people get banned for cheating indiscriminantly. Never for personal relationships.
    Blizzard is only ignorant when players like you refuse to be part of the solution and expect them to know what exactly players are upset about. There are hundreds of realms with millions of players and dozens upon dozens of ways for players to violate various rules. Again Blizzard isn't a mind reader so if they are "ignorant" it is because players are keeping them in the dark about what it is exactly they are complaining about.

  7. #207
    They have already done all they need to do, and that's give you the tools you need to deal with them how you like whenever you encounter them.

    vote to kick
    /ignore
    report spam
    gm ticket for griefing

    In addition to this they have slowly modified the games mechanics over the years to make 'toxic behavior' harder to do, like the new loot system making ninja looting less of an issue.

    Really what more do you want them to do?

    The only real toxic behavior left that hasn't been sufficiently addressed is botting, especially in BGs, beyond that I see nothing to complain about.

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  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Blizzard has been ineffectual in dealing with the negative elements in the game culture.
    Given how you are no longer able to harass people on official forums I think that you know better than most that just simply isn't the case.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Bullshit, they tell you to use the right click feature and not to open tickets, I have reported the same people over and over and nothing has been done, so again..........they get the money they don't give a shit.
    If you look at the official forums you'll see that over the years one of the things Blizzard doesn't take action about is anything along the lines of "someone being mean to you." They are quite specific that a certain amount of rude behavior is tolerated. Only when it becomes outright harassment (when the victim has placed someone on ignore and the unwanted conduct continues) does Blizzard do anything about it.

    Well, obviously, Blizzard can't make everybody be nice. But on the other hand, the standard could be different.

    If you look at the problem of, say, trolls in LFR/LFD, the problem is that when you report someone and ignore him, that really has no effect on YOU. Even if he is banned from the game, there are thousands of other unpleasant people awaiting your company.

    There really needs to be a way for Blizzard and/or the community to take IMMEDIATE action on someone for a minor infraction. A mild, immediate punishment for a minor offense.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Strakha View Post
    Yep and there is little or no profit margin to placing people on your salary to overcome the loss of a $15 a month customer, better to just let the dice roll. Chances are the person who had a crap time in the game will leave anyways and the toxic player is still willing to pay. So even in the best of scenarios it will result in a loss and an amplified loss if there is specific employees addressing it.
    How can you claim Blizzard won't ban players because they are a subscriber and then in the same breath say Blizzard will lose subscribers due to not punishing players? I'm sorry but that makes no sense and given the fact Blizzard has been in the industry for well over two decades and have had numerous hit games I don't think you or anyone else can realistically claim Blizzard is oblivious in how to retain customers.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-17 at 01:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Descense View Post
    Easy. If player collects too much bad reports their avatar will be put on display for 1 day (even when they are disconected) and other players can trow rotten tomatos into them.

    Implying that all reports are accurate. They aren't. Not even close. I see things constantly reported as harassment on the customer support forums that just simply isn't harassment or against the rules.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Halicia View Post
    Banning players only needs to be done in the most extreme cases, in which players refuse to respond to 'education' and correction. The existing ban system is quite effective.

    Greater enforcement of the ban system will NOT fix the problem with toxic players however. As Riot showed, some basic system changes can help alter the nature of players' interactions, and this may also be possible in WoW.

    Would it be beneficial to WoW if you got say... +5 vp per person you queued with in a dungeon/scenario/LFR ? You'd still hit the same hardcap, but it would encourage socialization again to maximize time & effort.

    Heroic scenarios are an extreme example, as they give a HUGE boost in VP compared to dungeons & raids, and also *require* that you bring 2 others with you... but I think this shows that people WILL be social if its in their best interests. The problem has been though, that the game has rewarded socials and antisocials roughly equally since LFG was introduced.

    It used to be, if you were a dick... people didnt want to do dungeons or raids with you... which meant you couldnt get gear, or got it more slowly than those who were nice/social. *regardless of 'skill'*. Granted, this created a huge problem for guilds that got sick of running new recruits through old raids and such in order to 'catch them up', and the changes in quality of life over the last expansions have largely cured this... what fell by the wayside though, is the communities' ability to selfcorrect itself by avoiding toxic players.

    Which is why we need modifications to existing game mechanics that encourage positive play.
    Even though I disagree that Blizzard needs to do anything further with the game to educate or encourage a certain tone of social behavior, I do believe that the reasons you cited are the most constructive argument in favor of it.

    Unfortunately most of the respondents in this thread wanting "toxic" behavior to be addressed are actually people who just want to see the types of players they don't like in this game punished/banned. Not only do they want to see it happen, they want to be able to dish it out themselves. It's almost like a perverse anti-bullying campaign where the anti-bullies become bullies themselves (there was a good South Park episode about this).

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halicia View Post
    what fell by the wayside though, is the communities' ability to selfcorrect itself by avoiding toxic players.

    Which is why we need modifications to existing game mechanics that encourage positive play.
    I don't think the community policing itself ever really existed. However, when you were only able to run grouped content with a player-formed group, the likelihood that you would run into a random asshole stranger was low. The likelihood that you will run into a random asshole stranger in LFR/LFD is obviously pretty high.

    But I'm not really talking about people who need to be banned from the game. Those people eventually do get banned. It's the people who just make the game tedious and unpleasant when it shouldn't be. Or, looked at it another way, who make a game people play for fun, not fun. They're not demons that need to be banned, but they need to be retrained to make the game fun for everyone.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuna View Post
    And bloody Amen to this. In most mmos with communities that are supportive you can't even LEVEL unless you can be civil and learn to cooperate. WoW was incredibly simple after playing FF11 prior to it, but the new age of gaming just doesn't encourage giving a shit about your fellow gamers until the Normal/Heroic modes, by which time it's too damn late for them to have learned the skills they should have had from the start.
    Again player reputation never mattered. If you were a decent player and enough of an asset to your guild you pretty much had carte blanche to do anything you wanted to do without consequence. Queue systems and cross realm tech allows players to no longer depend on those types of players. Like I said the worst of the worst of this community are threatened by anything that makes them irrelevant such as LFD.

  14. #214
    Blizz has given you multiple ways to deal with toxic players without themhaving to ban their own paying customers. You should probably realise blizz cares more about keeping their playerbase than trying to differentiate the assholes from the whiners. Assholes pay 15$ a month too.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobley View Post
    I don't think you understand.
    There isn't exactly some sort of trauma involved. I "tolerate" toxic players and get the job done. That doesn't mean I like them being there.
    I'd be lying if it didn't impact me on some level though which is usually frustration and annoyance.
    These people introduce increase entropy into the system though. This is bad for -all- of us whether you're aware of the concept of entropy or not.
    You don't have to tolerate toxic players though. This is what I don't get. We have ways of removing people we consider toxic from our game play whereas before we didn't have that ability. I'm very rarely in a LFD/LFR where someone is being toxic and we aren't able to get rid of him. We have more choice now not less.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumash View Post
    Blizz has given you multiple ways to deal with toxic players without themhaving to ban their own paying customers. You should probably realise blizz cares more about keeping their playerbase than trying to differentiate the assholes from the whiners. Assholes pay 15$ a month too.
    Blizzard is more concerned with creating more new subscriptions than with keeping old ones. New players are much more important to the game than old ones. The average age of an active account is a little over 1 year.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Pryre View Post
    Blizz has done plenty to deal with toxic players:
    1. Ban immunity if a toxic is kicked repeatedly from a group it takes longer to kick them next time, have had them join with 3 hour kick immunity from get go.
    2. You can click to ignore/report a toxic player unless they actually say something in chat.
    3. Ignoring someone no longer means you will never get paired with them again in instances. (some point during mop)
    4. Name/faction change gives them a clean slate from your ignore list.
    5. Cannot ignore battle id's (the person) you can only ignore individual toon, allowing for a reroll/change toon harrasment.
    6. If you report someone all messages sent are removed from your log so you cant take screenies to support your case or click to ignore. (I doubt the report claim perma ignores)
    7. Ninja looting is considered acceptable in most cases.
    8. Kicking somone removes their deserter debuff so they can hop right back into trolling, if you leave in disgust you get deserter debuff.

    oh wait...


    The simple fact remains we as players have many ways of dealing with these issues. There are consequences just not the ones you prefer and quite frankly, thank god for that. Far too many people in this community blow things way out of proportion and want punishments that just simply don't fit the crimes.

  18. #218
    This is what this argument/thread reminds me of so much:

    http://southpark.wikia.com/wiki/Buck..._Bully_Buckers

    Highly recommend a viewing if you haven't seen it before. Hopefully it will help everyone realize the awesome power of ignoring things (in-game and IRL).

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Ifeanychukwu View Post
    Something I would like to see Blizzard do is to mute people. If people can't be reasonable then they shouldn't be allowed to talk to anyone in game for a limited amount of time, with that time being increased with consecutive mutes.
    They already do this for trade chat. Again a cursory glance at customer support forums will show Blizzard is doing significantly more than people like the OP would have you believe.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-17 at 01:49 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pryre View Post
    1. There is a dual system of both, I rarely kick (only offline) and have come back from a 6 month break and seen this.
    2. Cant ignore a ninja puller or an afker wanting a carry if they don't say something.
    5. Infraction control is in the eyes of a blizz employee/bot who only is concerned with t&c not QoL.
    6. Screenshots are needed for reporting to guilds directly either my own or another (if their behaviour warrants it) No nee for the few to make the rest look bad
    7. Stealing the healers trinket while you are tanking is perfectly fine.
    8. while you are leveling this is more obvious than @90 and the queues are longer, I dont want to wait an hour+ to meet the same douchebag again.

    Alot of your arguments are just putting words into my mouth, as I recall you are not me. I am surprised at what you consider to viable arguments for these. New players are to be guided, trash is to be ignored, I'm not an elitist I've spent my 9 years of wow in the same casual guild having fun with my wow family. get off you high horse.
    If anyone is on a high horse it is people like you who seem to think just because you don't get vigilante justice that means players aren't punished for their actions. Again there are consequences just not the ones you prefer and yet again thank god for that.

  20. #220
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    Why should Blizzard do something about those players? If you can't handle someone being rude to you online, you shouldn't be online.

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