Bear dps problems (feeling like im holding the raid back) 10man hc

[Viromand]

yes like I said you can use both. They are both really strong.
On Jikun im using it so we dont need a healer on the second and 8 plattform so we have three of our dps with feathers to get feed buff. In terms of DPS HotW maybe a bit stronger but Jikun is a fight were you can keep you vengeance very high with two tanks during the whole fight. You can use NV more often.

On Horridon last phase, maybe i could use HotW but once the war god is dead the fight is over. Its the easiest phase imo. Our start last phase makes using HotW a bit hard to max dps.

But yes both are good now let me explain why I find NV to be much better on Iron Qon:

Once we started trying him on hc, we found the extra dmg we would gain doing the fight with 1 tank would not be that high compared to the extra dmg on the tank. So we start doing it with two tanks. keeping vengeance at a decent lvl is very easy due to the dot.

I started with HotW now like you said you can either heal or dps. Plus during the first phase its not about the group getting high dmg its more about 2-3 people getting alot of dmg. And the hardest part of the fight is the 3dog phase. There you need dps and heal. Berserk and NV are really strong, with our elemnental shaman we found it almost to be enoguh cds for the dog phase and keep the rest for smashes. And dont forget you still ahve you tranq which is more than enough to keep people alive during smash. And you will atleast have NV one more time up for one smash.

You will do more dps during the fire phase cause you are using HotW there and use HotW smash phase to heal and dps. During the last phase youz wuill probalby have 2-3 stacks so when you cast tranq the dmg you take while casting it with HotW is insane during smash.

During smash a normal tranq will heal enough to keep the raid alive. NV gives you DPS increase and heals targets that get bursted by 1-2 abilitys and keeps them alive(which happens alot during dog phase) which is the hardest part of the fight and NV is perfect for that. You can use it more frequently.
Now HotW during first phase will give you a dps increase but the dps phase is more the wind phase so it will not help as much and when you use it during the second phase you can only use it once. Now where you need dps and heal is the dog and smash phase.
During dog phase letting the co tank tank all 4 bosses and you use hotw to dps is a dps loss. Using HotW smash phase will let you take more dmg in % if you have 2-3 stacks, or you let the other tanks get more stacks so you ahve none will result in the other tank getting more dmg. Plus the extra dmg you gain while not in bear for 45seconds. A normal tranq works fine too. And you only need big cooldowns later for 3-4 smashes.

I would even say good usage with NV on iron qon(which im not doing) is about an equal increase to HotW in terms of dps.

[Viromand]

Just went through your newer logs, pretty impressive.

good dps, uptimes on lacerate is alot better now.
Very good uptime on SD, really good.
You are doing more dps than your other tanks except the warrior that is almost 12 ilvl ahead of you.

Really imroved over that short period of time Im impressed.

[lsmf5]

Cheers, couldn't have done it without the help of posters in this thread, so once again I say I am very grateful for help given.

I still have improvements to make, however they are coming with time.

[Tarazet]

If it will help you, this is the log where I ranked on Ji'Kun 10N. I had an ilvl of 523 for this kill and did 125k DPS. I think I did just about everything flawlessly in this particular encounter. I wasn't spamming Maul for the extra damage, btw - I still maintained 50% uptime on Savage Defense.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4d...?s=4152&e=4529

[Odina]

You are doing more dps than your other tanks except the warrior that is almost 12 ilvl ahead of you..

I have to agree looking at the logs it's a really nice step up in dps... however from a prot war POV you should be destroying that war as he is missing / not min maxing allot of things.

parry gems in gear? No heroic leap dmg in H.Jinrohk fight at all, no shattering throw use, low Shield block thus low heavy repercusions glyph uptime (56% of his dmg is from melee so should not be tossing out that many S.barriers), high uptime on Sword and board buff when you want to use it asap, using a Ilv463 exp with strengh on use trinket , no intervene / specking into safeguard to keep veng up etc etc.

I tip my hat off to ya on the improovements but that War should not be able to compete with you on dps at all. I would if possible have the raid lead try getting the two of you swapped in your tanking rotations so that you are tanking most of the time and he offtanks. I would be curious to see how much more dmg you do when you are the one with the high veng most of the time.

[Laurabelle]

I don't think it's a class issue, perhaps skill or gear issue. Though, even in 10m, at the end of the day a bit of tank DPS shouldn't make or break a 10HM jin'rokh kill. With good DPS you should be miles ahead of the enrage timer especially with vp upgrades at this point in the expansion.

[Whitepaw]

As a former bare tank I just have to say: Thx for the pointers about rotation and for the discussion of talents. Was a joy to read!

If only I had the time to raid again...

[Kagonos]

I am not opposed to using swipe in single target rotations. I know that all the good ones out there will say to never touch it, but there are times that I have a dead GCD and I'll hit swipe to fill it, I don't care. I rank pretty often since I outgear normals by an obscene amount without ever even seeing a single heroic, but I was doing it before my gear was where it is, so I guess the odd swipe isn't THAT bad, lol. And I'm pretty lazy and haven't bothered to absolutely min/max my gear or gems and enchants. I generally don't swap talents from fight to fight, either.

As to NV vs HotW, my biggest thing is that HotW has a 6 minute CD, so I can only use it once a fight for the most part and twice on really long fights like Iron Qon, so I find that NV is just a little bit more manageable and provides the extra healing in times of need and plays nice with Incarnation and Berserk. There are definitely times though when HotW DPS can get pretty out of control.

I suppose logs might be in order: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/sprfgg6p45x9epr2/ (I've never posted a log here, so feel free to critique. I know this is not what the thread is about, but I've always wondered what I do wrong, etc...)

[Tarazet]

I am not opposed to using swipe in single target rotations. I know that all the good ones out there will say to never touch it, but there are times that I have a dead GCD and I'll hit swipe to fill it, I don't care. I rank pretty often since I outgear normals by an obscene amount without ever even seeing a single heroic, but I was doing it before my gear was where it is, so I guess the odd swipe isn't THAT bad, lol. And I'm pretty lazy and haven't bothered to absolutely min/max my gear or gems and enchants. I generally don't swap talents from fight to fight, either.

As to NV vs HotW, my biggest thing is that HotW has a 6 minute CD, so I can only use it once a fight for the most part and twice on really long fights like Iron Qon, so I find that NV is just a little bit more manageable and provides the extra healing in times of need and plays nice with Incarnation and Berserk. There are definitely times though when HotW DPS can get pretty out of control.

I suppose logs might be in order: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/sprfgg6p45x9epr2/ (I've never posted a log here, so feel free to critique. I know this is not what the thread is about, but I've always wondered what I do wrong, etc...)

The single-target rotation is GCD locked without using Swipe. The only reason why you wouldn't be is if you take Glyph of Fae Silence (which is a small DPS loss). All you need to use is FF, Thrash, Lacerate, Mangle on single target. If you do use Glyph of Fae Silence, keep in mind it takes a GCD to activate Enrage and Incarnation, so that's a good use of the dead GCD.

[Arielle]

As to NV vs HotW, my biggest thing is that HotW has a 6 minute CD, so I can only use it once a fight for the most part and twice on really long fights like Iron Qon, so I find that NV is just a little bit more manageable and provides the extra healing in times of need and plays nice with Incarnation and Berserk. There are definitely times though when HotW DPS can get pretty out of control.

HotW is much better for fights with large DPS increases like Jin'Rokh, Horridon, and Ji-Kun. But it does require a lot more timing. NV you basically just hit off CD and pair it with Incarnation or Zerk.

[Kagonos]

I'm an idiot, I didn't see HC in the title. I'm just a normal scrub until next week =)