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  1. #21
    High Overlord Gufkys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sre View Post
    This is going to be a lengthy post with some references to tin foil hat articles on wow insider and such but bear with me. I may go back and edit the structure of this post as well to make this easier on the eyes. Also feel free to correct any mistakes in my recollection of the lore, may be wrong with a detail or two but I'll give it my best.

    So in the 5.3 ending quest for the legendary, Wrathion consumes the heart of Lei Shen that has a massive concentration of Titan power, stolen from Ra-den (The titan watcher who was charged with protecting the Engine of Nalak'sha.) During his titan power induced vision, he sees thousands of stars out in the cosmos and mentions that Azeroth is unique. As the OP mentioned, Wrathion states "WE HAVE FALLEN. WE MUST REBUILD THE FINAL TITAN. DO NOT FORGET." This is likely a message intended for all Titan constructs, and it's interesting to say the least, with the mention of having fallen (at this point nearly every titan construct we've run into has succumbed/failed their job) I want to focus on the "rebuilding" of this final Titan.

    Creation of Azeroth:
    Azeroth was originally ruled by the old gods and the elementals, but at some point Azeroth attracted the attention of the Titans, a race of all powerful beings that wielding the powers of creation and order. Why? Why would Azeroth attract the attention of the Titans? Although they are all powerful, why would the Titans risk war with the Old Gods/Elementals over a single planet? I believe it's because Azeroth meets the rare requirements for the creation of a Titan. The Old Gods were defeated and imprisoned beneath the ground and the Titans set about creating life on the planet, creating watchers/titan cities/aspects and bestowing the seed of creation on the planet to create the new Titan deep within the planet. Why would the Titans imprison the Old Gods instead of killing them? It always falls back to the corruption being so deep that Azeroth would be destroyed along with them, but why would you be concerned about a random planet (The Titans create life on thousands of planets mind you) when you had the chance of destroying pure evil/chaos? Because again, the planet met the rare requirements to be suitable to create a Titan.

    In Wrathions statement as well it mentions rebuilding this Titan, but why would we have to rebuild this Titan? Wouldn't the Titans set everything up in order for this Titan baby to naturally be created/grow and eventually depart the planet to join its brethren? Perhaps it was, until the misuse of the Well of Eternity's powers by the Night Elves which attracted the Burning Legion. Now the reckless misuse of the Wells power apparently sent out ripples into the Cosmos, eventually garnering the attention of Sargeras himself but why? Why would Sargeras care about this planets power use in particular? The Burning Legion is pure destruction, a wave that consumes all planets in its path so why would he suddenly move towards Azeroth? The Well of Eternity was a massive body of mysterious liquid which allowed the night elves to use magic. It's even said that the Night Elves evolved from Trolls who had resided on the shores of the well and mutated over time. But what if the Well was meant as a power source for something else? What If the well was the power source for the creation of this new Titan? With the Wells Destruction, the leaking of the Old Gods to the surface and the Cataclysm, it's no wonder this Titan has to be rebuilt, he's severely damaged. Now this job would fall upon the Titanic watchers/constructs, but they've succumbed to the curse of flesh and/or forgotten their initial assignments. So what do we have? We have a damaged, possibly corrupted inactive Titan inside Azeroth, waiting to be completed.

    Now Sargeras has been interested in Azeroth from the moment he sensed the Wells ripples in the cosmos, even after being defeated multiple times and at this point having no physical body he continues to push onward, rumored to be returning with the Legion in the next expansion, why? Because if Sargeras is able to get his hands on Azeroth, this Titan Engine with its Titan Infant could be influenced/corrupted by Sargeras himself, or even worse Sargeras could once again have a body, destroying what soul this Titan could have possibly had and replacing it with his own.

    This is a rough theory, and it could use some polishing but this was the best I could do on short notice.
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  2. #22
    Eh, wouldn't read too much into it at this stage. Sounds like a cool fight though.

    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    it's not confirmed, but ra-den may be a titan, not a keeper. he's indirectly called a "titan" (his powers = "the powers of a titan") and directly called a "god" quite a few times.
    I sincerely doubt it. A titanic watcher/keeper/etc would seem godlike to any mortal race. And the old Titanic Watcher model used to be called a "Titan" in the game files. And given Ra-Den's role he seems very much like the other Titanic Watchers.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-17 at 04:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarl Balgruuf View Post
    Norushen is a keeper, like Ra'den, Hodir, Freya, and the rest of the Ulduar keepers.
    I assumed he was a lower tier of titanic watchers, like Maiden of Grief, Maiden of Virtue, Ironaya etc etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  3. #23
    One, he is not a titan. Two, we cannot rebuild what is not taken apart.

  4. #24
    Great theory Sre. I'm wondering how the "final" part plays in.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    it's not confirmed, but ra-den may be a titan, not a keeper. he's indirectly called a "titan" (his powers = "the powers of a titan") and directly called a "god" quite a few times.
    But Ra-den was no more powerful than Thorim was, if you think about it. Ra-den was bested, in way or another, by a single, above-average Mogu called Lei Shen. Thorim had supposedly leveled a continent in his wrath, was arguably the most powerful of the 6 Watchers (Thorim, Tyr, Hodir, Freya, Mimiron and Loken) in place around Yogg-Saron's prison and only another Watcher, fueled with Old God power stopped him. Tyr fought a Dragon and lost a hand, Hodir was... Hodir. Freya was a healer, Mimiron was an inventor and Loken seemed to have weaker powers than Thorim with the addition of being Prime Designate.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Jshadow View Post
    Spoiler for those who haven't got past the titan runestones or haven't heard the Wrathion PTR files.
    Upon bringing Wrathion the Thunder King's Heart, he eats it, at which point he gets posessed and speaks in mogu voice:

    WE HAVE FALLEN. WE MUST REBUILD THE FINAL TITAN. DO NOT FORGET.
    Just a guess but that intergalactic battle between Sargeras and the Titans started without us. Any agents of Azeroth who could have slowed them down from the inside such as Illidan have been killed so all lines of communication have been cut off. Our only clue was that the Doomguard who was questioned in the Warlock quest was already preoccupied with a vendetta against the Titans and that the Legion "freed" them. So they have had more reason to attack the Big fish than bother with little old Azeroth. Long theory short Sargeras:1 ; Titans:0

    WE HAVE FALLEN.
    I have noticed Blizzard seems to build on previous successes in storytelling. The Pantheon may have fallen to the Burning Legion already. In Diablo 3 Heaven itself was under complete Siege and corruption by Diablo 3 and it's effect on the Angels of Truth, Valor etc. once they were defeated was felt world wide. Valor fell so Fear was unleashed; Hope was captured so despair was everywhere If when the Pantheon or just it's leader fell/were corrupted/destroyed all of the Titan fail-safes(Watchers) may have gone offline giving Yogg and every other Imprisoned entity of evil a get out of jail free card. Old God's being the Pros they are made sure any employees that didn't get the memo stayed uninformed and here we are. "DO NOT FORGET" was a message only a disoriented Titan Watcher could remember.

    WE MUST REBUILD THE FINAL TITAN.
    "WE HAVE FALLEN" may be a distress signal sent out from Homebase of the Titans. The "Final" Titan could be Aman'thul himself. may have been cracked in half or simply mortally damaged this would be the most important message that would effect the Universe itself. Not being made of flesh and blood could mean his demise is just that he was "Broken" and left for dead. The question is HOW would they repair him. If Aman'thul is a deity of Magic and Steel (Aesir Alloy whatever) the secrets to his recovery may lie within Azeroth.

    Why Azeroth is special, I dunno maybe because of the Gigantic Titan made Engines of unfathomable power they left lying in Pandaria and Northrend whose true purpose was never been fully justified yet. These Titanic engines could generate enough for a decent defibrillator like blast for possibly planet sized diety. Not to mention the various fonts of power in the world left by the Titans. Would Sargeras let that happen, probably not. Which may result in Sargeras paying personal interest in Azeroth.

    On on my last Titan Runestone which I pray frops this week and you lay this hot pillowtalk on me. Now I can't sleep.
    Last edited by Lastlivingsoul; 2013-06-17 at 08:03 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    I'm interested in figuring out why Ra-den looks like your typical "Norse-ish" Titan watcher, while Norushen looks like a Titanic Mogu.

    So far we've seen three 'breeds' of Titan watchers: The watchers of Ulduar who guard Yogg-Saron, which seem related to the watchers of Uldaman as well, are 'Norse/Dwarf' looking. The watchers in the Halls of Origination in Uldum are Egyptian-style. And now Norushen, which is Mogu-shaped.

    What do the Titans -themselves- actually look like?

    I still hold on to my pet theory that the Mogu (being Titan devices for battle) are somehow related to Sargeras pre-fall-into-darkness.
    Ra-Den doesn't look Norse'ish - he looks greek or roman.

    Also, all the ones you mention aren't Titans, they are titanic creations - created to suit the environment and the denizens in the area, we know what the Titans look like from official art.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-17 at 07:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    it's not confirmed, but ra-den may be a titan, not a keeper. he's indirectly called a "titan" (his powers = "the powers of a titan") and directly called a "god" quite a few times.
    "Lei Shen's life changed forever when he stumbled into a dark chamber below what are now the Mogu'shan Vaults. Legend has it he found an ancient titan keeper guarding a miraculous device known as the Engine of Nalak'sha. No one knows what transpired between the two beings, but Lei Shen later emerged from the site bristling with the power to forge an empire. The keeper's fate -- and his current whereabouts -- remain a mystery."

    ... It's confirmed, he's a keeper, not an actual Titan, and obviously a titanic keeper has titanic powers.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  8. #28
    Titanic involvement in the affairs of Azeroth is certainly interesting, but I'm starting to feel like we need an expansion dedicated to them. Just explaining everything else with Titans or Old Gods sort of diminishes the relevance of those events...


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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Sre View Post
    Creation of Azeroth:
    Azeroth was originally ruled by the old gods and the elementals, but at some point Azeroth attracted the attention of the Titans, a race of all powerful beings that wielding the powers of creation and order.
    No. They came to Azeroth, left, the Old Gods came, then the Titans came back. If there had been an infant titan, it would be corrupted already. Not to mention that leaving it alone with the Old Gods, even if they're subdued, wouldn't be the best of ideas(they've clearly shown that they were far from powerless in that state).

    Once the planet was infested with Necrophotic parasites, it was useless for this purpose, so if that was the important part, they'd just have cleansed it and hoped it still worked.

    As for why the Legion would be interested? Well, they feed on magic. They're basically trying to break into the larder.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No. They came to Azeroth, left, the Old Gods came, then the Titans came back. If there had been an infant titan, it would be corrupted already. Not to mention that leaving it alone with the Old Gods, even if they're subdued, wouldn't be the best of ideas(they've clearly shown that they were far from powerless in that state).

    Once the planet was infested with Necrophotic parasites, it was useless for this purpose, so if that was the important part, they'd just have cleansed it and hoped it still worked.

    As for why the Legion would be interested? Well, they feed on magic. They're basically trying to break into the larder.
    Incorrect, http://www.wowpedia.org/The_Old_Gods...ing_of_Azeroth, with an in-game source explicitly states that Pre Titan Arrival, Azeroth was ruled by the old gods and the Elemental Lords.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I'm not seeing any connection between Wrathion's quote and Norushen(who is a Titan Watcher, not a Titan). The Mogu might just as well not have known about him in the first place, since it wouldn't have helped them with their mission.

    That aside, why would anybody bother taking him along to "cleanse" Garrosh? Neither side has any interest in keeping him alive anyway.
    Garrosh, while a threat on his own, is not the threat that everyone ought to be worried about. The real danger in all this is a reborn and pissed off Y'Shaarj. Purging Y'Shaarj would both weaken Garrosh and stop the Old God cold. Win-win.

  12. #32
    Azeroth will give birth a giant Orc-looking titan. Thrall will pilot it like a megazord.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    Titanic involvement in the affairs of Azeroth is certainly interesting, but I'm starting to feel like we need an expansion dedicated to them. Just explaining everything else with Titans or Old Gods sort of diminishes the relevance of those events...


    That's what I believe will be the other side of Azeroth, a titan continent, which might be a giant facility rebuilding the rumored titan, which might explain why the watchers themselves don't have any images of it on their holograms.

  14. #34
    If all the Titans fell and in turn that frees the Old Gods from their prisons, that would make one hell of an expansion. I'm not sure how or where this final Titan would be created, but the story and game play potential is certainly there. Imagine if the Old Gods were resurrected and the Legion came to stake their claim on the planet. Being caught in the middle of a battle between the two would be epic.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by kolston View Post
    If all the Titans fell and in turn that frees the Old Gods from their prisons, that would make one hell of an expansion. I'm not sure how or where this final Titan would be created, but the story and game play potential is certainly there. Imagine if the Old Gods were resurrected and the Legion came to stake their claim on the planet. Being caught in the middle of a battle between the two would be epic.
    "We cannot hope to stand against the Legion. Our only option is to unleash the greatest of evils in the hope that they fight the Legion, perhaps then will we stand a chance if we fight the survivor..."

    Our job would then be to prevent the Titans from unleashing the Old Gods from their prisons. Sounds almost plausible lol.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 01:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kolston View Post
    If all the Titans fell and in turn that frees the Old Gods from their prisons, that would make one hell of an expansion. I'm not sure how or where this final Titan would be created, but the story and game play potential is certainly there. Imagine if the Old Gods were resurrected and the Legion came to stake their claim on the planet. Being caught in the middle of a battle between the two would be epic.
    "We cannot hope to stand against the Legion. Our only option is to unleash the greatest of evils in the hope that they fight the Legion, perhaps then will we stand a chance if we fight the survivor..."

    Our job would then be to prevent the Titans from unleashing the Old Gods from their prisons. Sounds almost plausible lol.

    Edit - I read that as the Titans releasing the Old Gods. Oops ;p
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Sre View Post
    Incorrect, http://www.wowpedia.org/The_Old_Gods...ing_of_Azeroth, with an in-game source explicitly states that Pre Titan Arrival, Azeroth was ruled by the old gods and the Elemental Lords.
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Tribunal_of_Ages

    The book you refer to is an ingame source, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily a correct source. In regards to this topic, the Tribunal is more likely to be correct, since they were actually built by the Titans, not written by some guy who is only born several thousand years after the fact. Not everything you're being told ingame is true. It's always from the PoV of the person doing the telling.

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer Moon Blade's Avatar
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    The Well of Eternity was a massive body of mysterious liquid which allowed the night elves to use magic. It's even said that the Night Elves evolved from Trolls who had resided on the shores of the well and mutated over time
    This has only been said by fans. In story its written that the Night Elves were Night Elves when they began to build around the Well and tap into it for power. Trolls have lived around Hyjal for 10000 years following the Sundering, near the new Well, and they are still as ugly, simple and dumb as ever anyways, not even the slightest improvement.

    Also

    A sense of magic ancient and powerful flooded through Vol'jin, providing him the key to why he was seeing the Zandalari. Titan magic predated even the Zandalari. It was more powerful than they were. As high as the Zandalari had been above things that slithered and stung, so were the titans above them—likewise their magic.
    Titans are older than the Trolls, so that's set to rest in the new book

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/101...eview-6_6_2013

    Titans probably made Night Elves from trolls, just as they made Aspects and Dragons from primitive protodrakes.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Sre View Post
    This is going to be a lengthy post with some references to tin foil hat articles on wow insider and such but bear with me. I may go back and edit the structure of this post as well to make this easier on the eyes. Also feel free to correct any mistakes in my recollection of the lore, may be wrong with a detail or two but I'll give it my best.

    So in the 5.3 ending quest for the legendary, Wrathion consumes the heart of Lei Shen that has a massive concentration of Titan power, stolen from Ra-den (The titan watcher who was charged with protecting the Engine of Nalak'sha.) During his titan power induced vision, he sees thousands of stars out in the cosmos and mentions that Azeroth is unique. As the OP mentioned, Wrathion states "WE HAVE FALLEN. WE MUST REBUILD THE FINAL TITAN. DO NOT FORGET." This is likely a message intended for all Titan constructs, and it's interesting to say the least, with the mention of having fallen (at this point nearly every titan construct we've run into has succumbed/failed their job) I want to focus on the "rebuilding" of this final Titan.

    Creation of Azeroth:
    Azeroth was originally ruled by the old gods and the elementals, but at some point Azeroth attracted the attention of the Titans, a race of all powerful beings that wielding the powers of creation and order. Why? Why would Azeroth attract the attention of the Titans? Although they are all powerful, why would the Titans risk war with the Old Gods/Elementals over a single planet? I believe it's because Azeroth meets the rare requirements for the creation of a Titan. The Old Gods were defeated and imprisoned beneath the ground and the Titans set about creating life on the planet, creating watchers/titan cities/aspects and bestowing the seed of creation on the planet to create the new Titan deep within the planet. Why would the Titans imprison the Old Gods instead of killing them? It always falls back to the corruption being so deep that Azeroth would be destroyed along with them, but why would you be concerned about a random planet (The Titans create life on thousands of planets mind you) when you had the chance of destroying pure evil/chaos? Because again, the planet met the rare requirements to be suitable to create a Titan.

    In Wrathions statement as well it mentions rebuilding this Titan, but why would we have to rebuild this Titan? Wouldn't the Titans set everything up in order for this Titan baby to naturally be created/grow and eventually depart the planet to join its brethren? Perhaps it was, until the misuse of the Well of Eternity's powers by the Night Elves which attracted the Burning Legion. Now the reckless misuse of the Wells power apparently sent out ripples into the Cosmos, eventually garnering the attention of Sargeras himself but why? Why would Sargeras care about this planets power use in particular? The Burning Legion is pure destruction, a wave that consumes all planets in its path so why would he suddenly move towards Azeroth? The Well of Eternity was a massive body of mysterious liquid which allowed the night elves to use magic. It's even said that the Night Elves evolved from Trolls who had resided on the shores of the well and mutated over time. But what if the Well was meant as a power source for something else? What If the well was the power source for the creation of this new Titan? With the Wells Destruction, the leaking of the Old Gods to the surface and the Cataclysm, it's no wonder this Titan has to be rebuilt, he's severely damaged. Now this job would fall upon the Titanic watchers/constructs, but they've succumbed to the curse of flesh and/or forgotten their initial assignments. So what do we have? We have a damaged, possibly corrupted inactive Titan inside Azeroth, waiting to be completed.

    Now Sargeras has been interested in Azeroth from the moment he sensed the Wells ripples in the cosmos, even after being defeated multiple times and at this point having no physical body he continues to push onward, rumored to be returning with the Legion in the next expansion, why? Because if Sargeras is able to get his hands on Azeroth, this Titan Engine with its Titan Infant could be influenced/corrupted by Sargeras himself, or even worse Sargeras could once again have a body, destroying what soul this Titan could have possibly had and replacing it with his own.

    This is a rough theory, and it could use some polishing but this was the best I could do on short notice.
    And what if the new titan is Elune and she uses the moon to communicate to those on the surface of Azeroth........
    "I just wanted them to hand us our award! But they were just talk!, talk!, talk!......" - Wrathion

  19. #39
    Ah warcraft, the one fictional universe where fan speculation is consistently 10x better than the actual story.

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  20. #40
    The Lightbringer Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landin55 View Post
    And what if the new titan is Elune and she uses the moon to communicate to those on the surface of Azeroth........
    Elune probably is a Titan. She could be a daughter of Eonar and Amanthul (whom Eonar is Amanthul's consort) and thus draws from Eonar's Life magics and Amanthul's arcane magics. Eonar empowered Ysera and Alexstrasza, Aman'thul empowered Nozdormu, the three aspects closest tied with the Night Elves and responsible for blessing Nordrassil. Ysera knows Elune. Elune has created creatures, the Moonkin, to guard places she deemed worthy of guarding, the idea she copulated with Malorne might be a simplistic explanation for her creation of the Dryads and Keepers of the Grove, and she may well have been the one who moulded Night Elves from Trolls.

    This is all highly speculative fan canon but it can make sense.

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