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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by hitandruntactic View Post
    This has only been said by fans. In story its written that the Night Elves were Night Elves when they began to build around the Well and tap into it for power. Trolls have lived around Hyjal for 10000 years following the Sundering, near the new Well, and they are still as ugly, simple and dumb as ever anyways, not even the slightest improvement.

    Also



    Titans are older than the Trolls, so that's set to rest in the new book

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/101...eview-6_6_2013

    Titans probably made Night Elves from trolls, just as they made Aspects and Dragons from primitive protodrakes.
    It would also explain why there are no 'stone trolls' or 'stone elves'. dwarves / gnomes / humans / troggs were originally 'earthen' races directly created by the titans that got inflicted with the curse of flesh by the old gods. We have seen no evidence that Trolls or Elves have ever been anything but flesh races, implying they were either here before the titans intervened on azeroth or are the result of titans interfering with the existing races when they got here.

    The same can be said about all non-earthen races really (tauren, pandaren, the bug races).

    Indeed the only races we know were original creations by the Titans are Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Troggs, Mogu, and the various sentient constructs and watchers they left behind. Every other race was either 'uplifted' from an existing race by the titans or 'evolved' on their own.
    Last edited by Redmage; 2013-06-18 at 03:10 AM.

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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    It would also explain why there are no 'stone trolls' or 'stone elves'. dwarves / gnomes / humans / troggs were originally 'earthen' races directly created by the titans that got inflicted with the curse of flesh by the old gods. We have seen no evidence that Trolls or Elves have ever been anything but flesh races, implying they were either here before the titans intervened on azeroth or are the result of titans interfering with the existing races when they got here.

    The same can be said about all non-earthen races really (tauren, pandaren, the bug races).
    But it makes you wonder what kind of hell they lived in if they did live during the old god's reign. Explains how they became great survivalists at least.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    It would also explain why there are no 'stone trolls' or 'stone elves'. dwarves / gnomes / humans / troggs were originally 'earthen' races directly created by the titans that got inflicted with the curse of flesh by the old gods. We have seen no evidence that Trolls or Elves have ever been anything but flesh races, implying they were either here before the titans intervened on azeroth or are the result of titans interfering with the existing races when they got here.
    I think Titan intervention played a role in the creation of Night Elves. Its canon that the Titans empowered the Aspects which gave rise to the Five Dragonflights. Now we know it's canon they were all *proto-drakes* millennia ago, way before the Sundering. Dragons look nothing like proto-drakes beyond superficial comparisons, just as with Night Elves and Trolls, Titans empowered them, I haven't read all of the Dawn of the Aspects but it doesn't seem like a stretch this is what they are getting at. Titans shaped everything.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 03:08 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Landin55 View Post
    But it makes you wonder what kind of hell they lived in if they did live during the old god's reign. Explains how they became great survivalists at least.
    or did they? Where did trolls come from is a damned good question too. They are not as old as everyone thought since Titans pre-date them.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by hitandruntactic View Post
    I think Titan intervention played a role in the creation of Night Elves. Its canon that the Titans empowered the Aspects which gave rise to the Five Dragonflights. Now we know it's canon they were all *proto-drakes* millennia ago, way before the Sundering. Dragons look nothing like proto-drakes beyond superficial comparisons, just as with Night Elves and Trolls, Titans empowered them, I haven't read all of the Dawn of the Aspects but it doesn't seem like a stretch this is what they are getting at. Titans shaped everything.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 03:08 AM ----------


    or did they? Where did trolls come from is a damned good question too. They are not as old as everyone thought since Titans pre-date them.
    Well what does that mean "Titans predate them" Titans could be here from the beginning of time. But its never said when Trolls did come into existence. There could be a few things for trolls, they were created by the old gods from their own flesh, or they are the natives of Azeroth evolved on the planet with maybe help from old gods or titans or just damn perseverance. Also looking at the other non-titan races we know most beast races come from an ancient and if the Elune thing matches up we could say titanspawn, as for the Bug races we know they come from one race that have been the old gods thralls for quite some time, this could mean created by old gods, raised from some kind of Azerothian naitve. We might never know it could just be titans they could be Azeroth's true children /shrug.
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  5. #45
    Ever consider that the old gods weren't so bad before the titans starting waring with them?

    They were here first, way before the titans came to azeroth.

    Yes things were likely a lot less ordered before the titans reshaped everything, but that doesn't change the fact that the titans were the invaders here.

    The old gods are unquestionably evil now, they plot to destroy all of the Titans creations, but wouldn't you be pissed if somebody invaded your home, bulldozed it, built a new one, and then chained you in the basement forever?

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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    Ever consider that the old gods weren't so bad before the titans starting waring with them?

    They were here first, way before the titans came to azeroth.

    Yes things were likely a lot less ordered before the titans reshaped everything, but that doesn't change the fact that the titans were the invaders here.

    The old gods are unquestionably evil now, they plot to destroy all of the Titans creations, but wouldn't you be pissed if somebody invaded your home, bulldozed it, built a new one, and then chained you in the basement forever?
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Kyurem View Post
    I love the idea but Blizzard would never use something so sensible.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-17 at 12:45 AM ----------



    I assume to weaken him?
    Indeed, as they have shown with Garrosh's entire storyline this expansion, they don't really care about taking cool and sensible choices that make the plot interesting, they apparently have to keep it nice and simple (and boring/predictable).

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by hitandruntactic View Post
    This has only been said by fans. In story its written that the Night Elves were Night Elves when they began to build around the Well and tap into it for power. Trolls have lived around Hyjal for 10000 years following the Sundering, near the new Well, and they are still as ugly, simple and dumb as ever anyways, not even the slightest improvement.

    Also



    Titans are older than the Trolls, so that's set to rest in the new book

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/101...eview-6_6_2013

    Titans probably made Night Elves from trolls, just as they made Aspects and Dragons from primitive protodrakes.
    In-game book:

    However, ancient texts speak of a small faction of trolls that broke off from the Amani Empire and founded their own colony in the heart of the dark continent.

    There, these brave pioneers discovered the cosmic Well of Eternity which transformed them into beings of immense power. Some legends suggest that these adventurous trolls were the first Night Elves, though this theory has never been proven.
    http://www.wowwiki.com/The_Twin_Empires

    Also, it was confirmed in issue 5 of the Warcraft magazine.
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  9. #49
    My working theory:

    Azeroth's existence is a form of gestation for the final Titan who is to end Sargeras.
    Before it is completed the Titan must be purged of all natures ailments.
    Each Old God represents an aspect that must be purged: Chaos, Emotions, Mortality (Cthun, Yshaarj/Sha, Yoggy). Maybe Fear? (N'zoth?)
    Draenor was the original attempt at a "final titan" but Sargeras's Demons saw to it that it failed and was terminated.
    The Aspects, The Earthen, The Mogu, The Watchers: All part of the natural growth and immunity of a baby Titan.
    The mortal races are not truly "free willed", being used to purge the corruption.
    The birth of the final Titan will see the Titans reveal they care nothing for their "tools" - mortal and immortal, alike.
    The mortal races combine to infiltrate Titan technology to use for their own purposes. Destroy the Titans.
    Parallax shows up and re-ignites the sun, reciting his oath, going out in a blaze of glory.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesmall001 View Post
    Before it is completed the Titan must be purged of all natures ailments.
    Each Old God represents an aspect that must be purged: Chaos, Emotions, Mortality (Cthun, Yshaarj/Sha, Yoggy). Maybe Fear? (N'zoth?)
    .
    Fear is an emotion (there IS a Sha of Fear) so if your theory were to be correct N'zoth would have to represent something else. Maybe Madness? Plain old evil?


  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    It would also explain why there are no 'stone trolls' or 'stone elves'. dwarves / gnomes / humans / troggs were originally 'earthen' races directly created by the titans that got inflicted with the curse of flesh by the old gods. We have seen no evidence that Trolls or Elves have ever been anything but flesh races, implying they were either here before the titans intervened on azeroth or are the result of titans interfering with the existing races when they got here.

    The same can be said about all non-earthen races really (tauren, pandaren, the bug races).

    Indeed the only races we know were original creations by the Titans are Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, Troggs, Mogu, and the various sentient constructs and watchers they left behind. Every other race was either 'uplifted' from an existing race by the titans or 'evolved' on their own.
    Aren't humans descendants of the Vrykul; who were original creations of the titans?
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Tribunal_of_Ages

    The book you refer to is an ingame source, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily a correct source. In regards to this topic, the Tribunal is more likely to be correct, since they were actually built by the Titans, not written by some guy who is only born several thousand years after the fact. Not everything you're being told ingame is true. It's always from the PoV of the person doing the telling.
    Like I mentioned, the lore isn't 100% and it's based off of what I could recall from memory. Blizzard obviously has no problem changing lore when they feel like it, just refer to the Draenei/Eredar debacle.

    Quote Originally Posted by hitandruntactic View Post
    This has only been said by fans. In story its written that the Night Elves were Night Elves when they began to build around the Well and tap into it for power. Trolls have lived around Hyjal for 10000 years following the Sundering, near the new Well, and they are still as ugly, simple and dumb as ever anyways, not even the slightest improvement.

    Also



    Titans are older than the Trolls, so that's set to rest in the new book

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/101...eview-6_6_2013

    Titans probably made Night Elves from trolls, just as they made Aspects and Dragons from primitive protodrakes.
    Pretty sure it's documented that trolls broke off from the main empire and settled near the mysterious waters and over time changed into pre-sundering Night Elves. Trolls have been living/settling near the new Well (I assume you mean the pool beneath Nordrassil) but we're talking a massive difference between the two, the former being the size of a small ocean and the latter being a small lake.

  13. #53
    I think Norushen funcacts like keeper for Y'Shaarj like others mentioned

    Norushen seems like he has the power to purify any negative emotion within the host

    perhaps Norushen IS the creation of the Mogu (since both raden and Norushen looks similar),maybe Norushen is Mogu's God


    also gets me thinking maybe Mogu were actually affected by sha of pride and the purpose of Norushen was to purify the Pride of the Mogu. which might lead to why there hasnt been any sha of pride running around in pandaria since Norushen is guarding both sha of pride and Y'Shaarj's heart

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Sre View Post
    This is going to be a lengthy post with some references to tin foil hat articles on wow insider and such but bear with me. I may go back and edit the structure of this post as well to make this easier on the eyes. Also feel free to correct any mistakes in my recollection of the lore, may be wrong with a detail or two but I'll give it my best.

    So in the 5.3 ending quest for the legendary, Wrathion consumes the heart of Lei Shen that has a massive concentration of Titan power, stolen from Ra-den (The titan watcher who was charged with protecting the Engine of Nalak'sha.) During his titan power induced vision, he sees thousands of stars out in the cosmos and mentions that Azeroth is unique. As the OP mentioned, Wrathion states "WE HAVE FALLEN. WE MUST REBUILD THE FINAL TITAN. DO NOT FORGET." This is likely a message intended for all Titan constructs, and it's interesting to say the least, with the mention of having fallen (at this point nearly every titan construct we've run into has succumbed/failed their job) I want to focus on the "rebuilding" of this final Titan.

    Creation of Azeroth:
    Azeroth was originally ruled by the old gods and the elementals, but at some point Azeroth attracted the attention of the Titans, a race of all powerful beings that wielding the powers of creation and order. Why? Why would Azeroth attract the attention of the Titans? Although they are all powerful, why would the Titans risk war with the Old Gods/Elementals over a single planet? I believe it's because Azeroth meets the rare requirements for the creation of a Titan. The Old Gods were defeated and imprisoned beneath the ground and the Titans set about creating life on the planet, creating watchers/titan cities/aspects and bestowing the seed of creation on the planet to create the new Titan deep within the planet. Why would the Titans imprison the Old Gods instead of killing them? It always falls back to the corruption being so deep that Azeroth would be destroyed along with them, but why would you be concerned about a random planet (The Titans create life on thousands of planets mind you) when you had the chance of destroying pure evil/chaos? Because again, the planet met the rare requirements to be suitable to create a Titan.

    In Wrathions statement as well it mentions rebuilding this Titan, but why would we have to rebuild this Titan? Wouldn't the Titans set everything up in order for this Titan baby to naturally be created/grow and eventually depart the planet to join its brethren? Perhaps it was, until the misuse of the Well of Eternity's powers by the Night Elves which attracted the Burning Legion. Now the reckless misuse of the Wells power apparently sent out ripples into the Cosmos, eventually garnering the attention of Sargeras himself but why? Why would Sargeras care about this planets power use in particular? The Burning Legion is pure destruction, a wave that consumes all planets in its path so why would he suddenly move towards Azeroth? The Well of Eternity was a massive body of mysterious liquid which allowed the night elves to use magic. It's even said that the Night Elves evolved from Trolls who had resided on the shores of the well and mutated over time. But what if the Well was meant as a power source for something else? What If the well was the power source for the creation of this new Titan? With the Wells Destruction, the leaking of the Old Gods to the surface and the Cataclysm, it's no wonder this Titan has to be rebuilt, he's severely damaged. Now this job would fall upon the Titanic watchers/constructs, but they've succumbed to the curse of flesh and/or forgotten their initial assignments. So what do we have? We have a damaged, possibly corrupted inactive Titan inside Azeroth, waiting to be completed.

    Now Sargeras has been interested in Azeroth from the moment he sensed the Wells ripples in the cosmos, even after being defeated multiple times and at this point having no physical body he continues to push onward, rumored to be returning with the Legion in the next expansion, why? Because if Sargeras is able to get his hands on Azeroth, this Titan Engine with its Titan Infant could be influenced/corrupted by Sargeras himself, or even worse Sargeras could once again have a body, destroying what soul this Titan could have possibly had and replacing it with his own.

    This is a rough theory, and it could use some polishing but this was the best I could do on short notice.
    It's an interesting read, one thing to add is that Sargeras was a titan, a titan who was corrupted.

    The other point I'd make is that the reason blizz's storyline is ofttimes not so cohesive, is they don't actually have a preplanned storyline to begin with. They are writing like "Lost", which sometimes appears to have a cohesive backbone, but really doesn't. By that I mean they try and work stuff into the framework of things they set in motion, but there is no true plan.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    I think Norushen funcacts like keeper for Y'Shaarj like others mentioned

    Norushen seems like he has the power to purify any negative emotion within the host

    perhaps Norushen IS the creation of the Mogu (since both raden and Norushen looks similar),maybe Norushen is Mogu's God


    also gets me thinking maybe Mogu were actually affected by sha of pride and the purpose of Norushen was to purify the Pride of the Mogu. which might lead to why there hasnt been any sha of pride running around in pandaria since Norushen is guarding both sha of pride and Y'Shaarj's heart
    I don't believe Norushen was guarding the Sha of Pride, as the Emperor states that Pride was the one thing he couldn't conquer, and his Pride cloaked Pandaria itself. Leads me to believe that the Sha of Pride, feeding off of the Emperors pride, was the actual mists surrounding Pandaria and hiding it from the rest of the world.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by oblivionx View Post
    It's an interesting read, one thing to add is that Sargeras was a titan, a titan who was corrupted.

    The other point I'd make is that the reason blizz's storyline is ofttimes not so cohesive, is they don't actually have a preplanned storyline to begin with. They are writing like "Lost", which sometimes appears to have a cohesive backbone, but really doesn't. By that I mean they try and work stuff into the framework of things they set in motion, but there is no true plan.
    They have some kind of plan, as they at some point said that they plan ahead expansions. But since it's an MMO and they want to keep it running as long as possible, driving the story into an end isn't favorable, and as such they just plan ahead a few years but never touch the "end" of warcraft. While Warcraft's lore might not be the best at times, people seriously need to give these guys more credit, just look at all the speculation threads created thanks to the interesting things they come up with.
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Sre View Post
    Like I mentioned, the lore isn't 100% and it's based off of what I could recall from memory. Blizzard obviously has no problem changing lore when they feel like it, just refer to the Draenei/Eredar debacle.
    It's not even a retcon, the ingame books are only as reliable as the people that, lorewise, wrote them. The book was simply bullshitting you.

    You made no mention of it not being 100%, though.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarles Malarkey View Post
    Azeroth will give birth a giant Orc-looking titan. Thrall will pilot it like a megazord.
    And thus Orc Jesus will ascend into the heavens leaving his Horde of Disciples with his last great commission. Go forth and end up as slaves under the boot of the Alliance because you're too pathetic to lead yourselves.

    On topic, I think your post is quite cool OP and raises some questions.
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  19. #59
    Titan -> Next MMO -> Illuminati!

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarles Malarkey View Post
    Azeroth will give birth a giant Orc-looking titan. Thrall will pilot it like a megazord.
    I think we already saw the final Titan. It's the model used by http://www.wowhead.com/npc=46692 but scaled up to like Deathwing or greater size.

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