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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    Actually, they "devolved" from Vrykul. lol.
    Such term doesn't exist.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Id be fine with letting all your alts in as long as you completed the legendary questline with at least 1 toon. Make it account wide attunement
    Its a great model if you want to keep new players from experiencing content, "Thanks for buying wow, please feel free to do anything but the final portion of the storyline because it will be over beore you can see it. "

    Is LFR really worth keeping people from seeing a boss you can't loose against?

    Attunements are gone for a reason, they sucked for all but the top 1%. There is enough of a gate as it is, you have to progress through every LFR with required gear gating to get to the final gate.

    When someone in the past needed to get attuned and asked for help it was a run on the exit button because no one wanted to spend time doing that painful attunement run and then when somone was attuned they got poached by another guild because it was better to poach attuned players than to attune them yourself.

    Its one thing to put a castel/moat/dragon/chastity belt around a virgin princess and another thing entirely to protect the village harlot in the same mannor.
    Last edited by DeadmanWalking; 2013-06-18 at 04:15 PM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    I dont think anyone who hasn't completed the legendary quest line should even be able to do the SoO raid (neither in regular or LFR) until they do complete it so they know the backstory and why they are about to raid Orgrimmar. Kind of like an attunement
    You're contradicting yourself there. The Legendary quest does not give the backstory of SoO, so requiring it for the Raid would make no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    Actually, they "devolved" from Vrykul. lol.
    Evolution has no direction. "Devolution", as a term, is nonsensical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xylev View Post
    Just as a tip to you: get exalted with the Klaxxi and do the final quest chain. This will explain their presence in SoO. As to the attacking: this has nothing to do with the Klaxxi, just with the corrupted mantid empress (sha of fear).
    Should really be pretty obvious why they are there. Though i'm kinda wondering what their purpose there is. Do they want the heart back? Are they following Garrosh?

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I personally think Elune is an Old God and not a Titan. Most pantheons have a mixture of Good and Evil Gods, most have more good than evil (dragon lance requires a balance of good, neutral and evil) but I think Elune may of been one of the few if not sole 'Good' Old Gods.

    In the book where Rhonin/Krasus/Brox go back in time Tyrande worships and trains at a temple that has a mural of Elune standing in a mural with several other dieties of which thier features are blurred or non-distinct to put the viewers attention on Elune. Which means that she is a diety among other Dieties.

    Titans are not invested in the future of any one planet and the races upon it. Elune is very invested in several races and Azeroth.

    It seems to me that she was not imprisoned because she was not a threat to the Titans order, and in fact she kind of reinforces their order by maintaining order against the agents of chaos while they are gone. It may also be a condition for not being imprisoned.

    In Greek mythology the Titans were over thrown because the Gods of the Pantheon (children of the Titans) were joined by a few Titans to over throw Chronos's Titan forces. This would be a reversed version of the story, where the Titans over threw the gods because an Old God changed sides to help the Titans.
    As to Titans not being invested in the future of any one planet or its races, I'd say that Azeroth is still well above average on their radar, just not their only concern. Azeroth is where Old Gods exist and present a threat to an otherwise omnipotent race, aside from the Burning Legion. The Legion itself was also defeated here after at least the two main invasions I know of, 10,000 years ago and WC3. Perhaps most importantly of all, this is where Sargeras fell.

    Unless you want to go full Mass Effect 3 and call this a repeating cycle that happens on every planet, Azeroth is at least somewhat special. I think a lot of people rightly expect Sargeras to be the final boss of WoW. So much build-up should eventually result in fighting him. Sure, they've said they can create more lore, just as Pandaria was kind of made out of nothing (and worked much better than I thought it would), but they also want Titan to be the next great thing. A fresh start may be a better place to allocate resources for creating new lore.

  5. #85
    I am Murloc! Orlong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Its a great model if you want to keep new players from experiencing content, "Thanks for buying wow, please feel free to do anything but the final portion of the storyline because it will be over beore you can see it. "

    Is LFR really worth keeping people from seeing a boss you can't loose against?

    Attunements are gone for a reason, they sucked for all but the top 1%. There is enough of a gate as it is, you have to progress through every LFR with required gear gating to get to the final gate.

    When someone in the past needed to get attuned and asked for help it was a run on the exit button because no one wanted to spend time doing that painful attunement run and then when somone was attuned they got poached by another guild because it was better to poach attuned players than to attune them yourself.

    Its one thing to put a castel/moat/dragon/chastity belt around a virgin princess and another thing entirely to protect the village harlot in the same mannor.
    First of all the legendary questline will most likely always be there. Secondly it isnt hard at all to complete it so far, you only have to run 4 LFRs a week. Anyone can complete it. It just takes time. The reason I think it should be completed before you move on, is ironically the same reason you think everyone should waltz right in. They should experience all of the content. The difference is I think they should be FORCED to experience the previous stuff so they understand the lore and story and understand why they are raiding Orgrimmar, instead of log in herp derp Im gonna kill Garrosh with rhyme or reason

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 02:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    You're contradicting yourself there. The Legendary quest does not give the backstory of SoO, so requiring it for the Raid would make no sense.

    Well I havent finished it yet myself. Im still working on the 4th part but I wont go to SoO until I do finish it. From as far as Ive gotten it seems to be connected in some way to the Orgrimmar power struggle

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    I'm interested in figuring out why Ra-den looks like your typical "Norse-ish" Titan watcher, while Norushen looks like a Titanic Mogu.

    So far we've seen three 'breeds' of Titan watchers: The watchers of Ulduar who guard Yogg-Saron, which seem related to the watchers of Uldaman as well, are 'Norse/Dwarf' looking. The watchers in the Halls of Origination in Uldum are Egyptian-style. And now Norushen, which is Mogu-shaped.

    What do the Titans -themselves- actually look like?

    I still hold on to my pet theory that the Mogu (being Titan devices for battle) are somehow related to Sargeras pre-fall-into-darkness.
    There is another breed. Uldaman itself has a very Roman/Greek feel to it, and all of the old "titan" models, which are other keepers, have a very ancient Greek look about them as well. It just doesn't show that well compared to the lore and designs later on.

    As for what the Titans look like, there is official art from the Warcraft magazine. http://www.wowpedia.org/File:Pantheon.jpg
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
    1.) If you have an opinion, someone will say that it is wrong
    2.) If you have a source, there will be people who refuse to believe it
    3.) If you use logic, it will be largely ignored
    Btw: *Tanaan, *Farahlon, *Arakkoa. Not that hard.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    First of all the legendary questline will most likely always be there. Secondly it isnt hard at all to complete it so far, you only have to run 4 LFRs a week. Anyone can complete it. It just takes time. The reason I think it should be completed before you move on, is ironically the same reason you think everyone should waltz right in. They should experience all of the content. The difference is I think they should be FORCED to experience the previous stuff so they understand the lore and story and understand why they are raiding Orgrimmar, instead of log in herp derp Im gonna kill Garrosh with rhyme or reason

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 02:30 PM ----------



    Well I havent finished it yet myself. Im still working on the 4th part but I wont go to SoO until I do finish it. From as far as Ive gotten it seems to be connected in some way to the Orgrimmar power struggle
    Why should they be forced to experience it? Will it make them better players? No. Is it required to understand any wing of the LFR? Nope. Theres not a bit of any LFR that requires knowledge of whats going on in the wrathion quest.

    The only thing that gating and attunement will do is ensure that less people do the content ensuring that queues are longer and the queues are long enough as it is. The last thing we need is less people doing content that requires random queueing.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 07:24 PM ----------

    90% of the wrathion quest is Wrathion sending us on meaningless collection quests. In fact I wouldnt be surprised if he turned to Wrynn and said, "Well that ought to keep that idiot busy, lets finish our chess game now."

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It's not even a retcon, the ingame books are only as reliable as the people that, lorewise, wrote them. The book was simply bullshitting you.

    You made no mention of it not being 100%, though.
    You would be correct, but these in game books in particular were just the in game source for lore that was published on the old Official WoW Website. As evidenced by http://www.wowpedia.org/Sargeras_and_the_Betrayal the link is the source to the in game book which yet again, was just the in game source to official lore published on the Official site stating that the Eredar corrupted Sargeras, but after the Draenei Retcon we know this is false and it was the other way around.

  9. #89
    I would like to just reiterate that the burning legion was created by Sargeras to "undo" what the titans had done (which in his mind was not correct.) So the entire burning legions forte if you must is to destroy planets and anything they feel the titans have had their hand in.

    Another thing is that the old gods (if ever killed fully by some small crazy chance) are killed Azeroth will be obliterated so they could if they wanted do away with Azeroth, my theory is that the old gods and titans are fighting about something we don't know yet due to the fact we are under the impression that the old gods want to kill the titans creation.

    Nouroshen (I probably butchered his name) is from what I gather a watcher he was placed there to guard the heart. Ra'den on the other hand really doesn't have a classification we just know he has titanic powers that Lei'shen was able to harness.

    I believe Elune is part of what hodir thorim and all the other goons in ulduar are part of.

    But yes I do believe Azeroth may have been used by the pantheon to make a Titan that would one day take on sargeras. But there is another Titan out there who's only mission in life is to eliminate the burning legion and anything that represents sargeras. His name is aggramar the avenger (look him up)

    Blizzard is going to do what they want with the in-game story we can only speculate..

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by dyverite View Post
    I would like to just reiterate that the burning legion was created by Sargeras to "undo" what the titans had done (which in his mind was not correct.) So the entire burning legions forte if you must is to destroy planets and anything they feel the titans have had their hand in.

    Another thing is that the old gods (if ever killed fully by some small crazy chance) are killed Azeroth will be obliterated so they could if they wanted do away with Azeroth, my theory is that the old gods and titans are fighting about something we don't know yet due to the fact we are under the impression that the old gods want to kill the titans creation.

    Nouroshen (I probably butchered his name) is from what I gather a watcher he was placed there to guard the heart. Ra'den on the other hand really doesn't have a classification we just know he has titanic powers that Lei'shen was able to harness.

    I believe Elune is part of what hodir thorim and all the other goons in ulduar are part of.

    But yes I do believe Azeroth may have been used by the pantheon to make a Titan that would one day take on sargeras. But there is another Titan out there who's only mission in life is to eliminate the burning legion and anything that represents sargeras. His name is aggramar the avenger (look him up)

    Blizzard is going to do what they want with the in-game story we can only speculate..
    The new lore sections added to the site state that Lei Shen explored Mogu'shan vaults and found Ra-den defending the Engine of Nalak'sha, and as far as we can tell, the Engine can create life. (This is an assumption, but I assume Elegon is "alive" and that the engine also fuels the will of the emperor machine. I think Azeroth is still in the process of making a Titan, and this process has been interrupted countless times due to the activity on the surface. If things had happened on schedule I believe the Titan would have been born and eventually emerged from Azeroth and been on its way to join its brothers/sisters.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Therougetitan View Post
    What about where it says he's a keeper without mentioning storms?

    Dungeon jornal:


    Wrathion during runestone quest:
    It's his title when you face him in ToT. "Ra-den <Fallen Keeper of Storms>".

    It seems pretty odd for a titan construct to have actual titan blood which can bring life to creations and give such vast powers to the thunder king.

    Either way journal and wrathion mentions keeper, even though I don't think he's a keeper, it must be
    ----

    WoD Launch date on 28/10 OR 11/11 OR 18/11. Updated on 01/08/2014.

    ----

  12. #92
    I am Murloc! Descense's Avatar
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    What if:
    *Old gods are just a power source to born a titan
    *Titan is a size of a small planet

    Kinda like this:
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_O4G4eDMs84...00/unicron.jpg

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Descense View Post
    What if:
    *Old gods are just a power source to born a titan
    That wouldn't make any sense whatsoever. Why would the Titans fight them then? Why don't they already have control systems for them in place prior to them popping up?

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Sre View Post
    This is going to be a lengthy post with some references to tin foil hat articles on wow insider and such but bear with me. I may go back and edit the structure of this post as well to make this easier on the eyes. Also feel free to correct any mistakes in my recollection of the lore, may be wrong with a detail or two but I'll give it my best.

    So in the 5.3 ending quest for the legendary, Wrathion consumes the heart of Lei Shen that has a massive concentration of Titan power, stolen from Ra-den (The titan watcher who was charged with protecting the Engine of Nalak'sha.) During his titan power induced vision, he sees thousands of stars out in the cosmos and mentions that Azeroth is unique. As the OP mentioned, Wrathion states "WE HAVE FALLEN. WE MUST REBUILD THE FINAL TITAN. DO NOT FORGET." This is likely a message intended for all Titan constructs, and it's interesting to say the least, with the mention of having fallen (at this point nearly every titan construct we've run into has succumbed/failed their job) I want to focus on the "rebuilding" of this final Titan.

    Creation of Azeroth:
    Azeroth was originally ruled by the old gods and the elementals, but at some point Azeroth attracted the attention of the Titans, a race of all powerful beings that wielding the powers of creation and order. Why? Why would Azeroth attract the attention of the Titans? Although they are all powerful, why would the Titans risk war with the Old Gods/Elementals over a single planet? I believe it's because Azeroth meets the rare requirements for the creation of a Titan. The Old Gods were defeated and imprisoned beneath the ground and the Titans set about creating life on the planet, creating watchers/titan cities/aspects and bestowing the seed of creation on the planet to create the new Titan deep within the planet. Why would the Titans imprison the Old Gods instead of killing them? It always falls back to the corruption being so deep that Azeroth would be destroyed along with them, but why would you be concerned about a random planet (The Titans create life on thousands of planets mind you) when you had the chance of destroying pure evil/chaos? Because again, the planet met the rare requirements to be suitable to create a Titan.

    In Wrathions statement as well it mentions rebuilding this Titan, but why would we have to rebuild this Titan? Wouldn't the Titans set everything up in order for this Titan baby to naturally be created/grow and eventually depart the planet to join its brethren? Perhaps it was, until the misuse of the Well of Eternity's powers by the Night Elves which attracted the Burning Legion. Now the reckless misuse of the Wells power apparently sent out ripples into the Cosmos, eventually garnering the attention of Sargeras himself but why? Why would Sargeras care about this planets power use in particular? The Burning Legion is pure destruction, a wave that consumes all planets in its path so why would he suddenly move towards Azeroth? The Well of Eternity was a massive body of mysterious liquid which allowed the night elves to use magic. It's even said that the Night Elves evolved from Trolls who had resided on the shores of the well and mutated over time. But what if the Well was meant as a power source for something else? What If the well was the power source for the creation of this new Titan? With the Wells Destruction, the leaking of the Old Gods to the surface and the Cataclysm, it's no wonder this Titan has to be rebuilt, he's severely damaged. Now this job would fall upon the Titanic watchers/constructs, but they've succumbed to the curse of flesh and/or forgotten their initial assignments. So what do we have? We have a damaged, possibly corrupted inactive Titan inside Azeroth, waiting to be completed.

    Now Sargeras has been interested in Azeroth from the moment he sensed the Wells ripples in the cosmos, even after being defeated multiple times and at this point having no physical body he continues to push onward, rumored to be returning with the Legion in the next expansion, why? Because if Sargeras is able to get his hands on Azeroth, this Titan Engine with its Titan Infant could be influenced/corrupted by Sargeras himself, or even worse Sargeras could once again have a body, destroying what soul this Titan could have possibly had and replacing it with his own.

    This is a rough theory, and it could use some polishing but this was the best I could do on short notice.


    Behold! Long story short:

    Azeroth is kind of an ovum, maybe breeding out a super titan!

    And Sargeras is coming for abortion...
    Last edited by Noctim; 2013-06-19 at 10:30 AM.

  15. #95
    sounds good except for 1 thing: I don't want garrosh to be redeemed. I want to kill him, jam my silvermoon banner in his skull and dance on his corpse.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

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