View Poll Results: Should Warlocks receive a fully supported tanking specialization?

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  • Yes, even if demonology dps will be removed in the process.

    33 20.50%
  • Yes, but only implemented in an additional fourth spec.

    42 26.09%
  • Maybe, i'm interested but it may harm the class/game as a whole.

    9 5.59%
  • Maybe, i have no interest but more options are always good.

    3 1.86%
  • No, developer ressources should be invested elsewhere.

    18 11.18%
  • No, this is not the proper direction for the game/class.

    56 34.78%
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  1. #181
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    2) The only arguments I've heard against having pures in the game at all are: a) I like having 3 DPS specs, and b) I don't want to be pressured to tank/heal.
    I would say the only arguments (save you) that I hear FOR hybridization is either a) I want to be able to do X, or b) I don't want to reroll Y. Now, I personally want to say that ingame, there's options to facilitate those who want hybrids and those who don't, while changing it would take away one of those options without really adding anything the currently doesn't exist.

  2. #182
    Banned Junblat's Avatar
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    Why stop at warlocks, why not mages, they can get a glyph and have tanking abilities?
    hunters too, oh and shamans!

    You go down that road, there is no coming back.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Junblat View Post
    Why stop at warlocks, why not mages, they can get a glyph and have tanking abilities?
    hunters too, oh and shamans!

    You go down that road, there is no coming back.

    We're not asking for a Glyph. We're asking for a tank spec for a class that's been tanking at least 1 boss every tier since BC.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    We're not asking for a Glyph. We're asking for a tank spec for a class that's been tanking at least 1 boss every tier since BC.
    Which I'd argue is worse, since then you open the door to everyone asking for a 4th spec, which is like adding what, 4 new classes at once, while also getting them to mesh into existing classes?

  5. #185
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    We're not asking for a Glyph. We're asking for a tank spec for a class that's been tanking at least 1 boss every tier since BC.
    But, equally, has never been said to be a true tank class, and has been unable to tank the majority of bosses. I think having an off-tank capability is far more likely than a full-on tanking spec (honestly, right now I'd prefer DA to have a cooldown comparable to Heart of the Wild for Druids to off-tank to end this debate once and for all).

  6. #186
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen Ultima View Post
    But, equally, has never been said to be a true tank class, and has been unable to tank the majority of bosses. I think having an off-tank capability is far more likely than a full-on tanking spec (honestly, right now I'd prefer DA to have a cooldown comparable to Heart of the Wild for Druids to off-tank to end this debate once and for all).
    What's the point of that? Might as well just have an actual tanking spec if that's the case. And an off-tank cooldown for the DPS specs.

    (and that non-tank-looking DA graphic could become a cosmetic glyph for all specs)

  7. #187
    Dreadlord Pisholina's Avatar
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    When Blizzard changed Death Knights to give them a proper tanking spec, they removed the ability for Unholy and Frost to tank, and for Blood to DPS. I like the change overall but, as a DPS Blood in WotLK, I was upset. Do you really want another change like that?

    Also, if Blizzard implemented Warlock Tanks, they'd also have to implement Shaman tanks because they were also requested a lot, and some players acually managed to pull it off. Then, Hunters would be asking for a tanking spec, as well as Rogues and Mages. After that, healers would QQ about there obly being 5 healing and 10 tanking classes, so we would also get healing Death Knights with blood magic, Warriors with bandages, Blood Mages, Hunters shootong fruits and veggies at allies to heal them etc.
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  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Pisholina View Post
    Also, if Blizzard implemented Warlock Tanks, they'd also have to implement Shaman tanks because they were also requested a lot, and some players acually managed to pull it off. Then, Hunters would be asking for a tanking spec, as well as Rogues and Mages. After that, healers would QQ about there obly being 5 healing and 10 tanking classes, so we would also get healing Death Knights with blood magic, Warriors with bandages, Blood Mages, Hunters shootong fruits and veggies at allies to heal them etc.
    I'm so sick of hearing this childish logic. Seriously, everyone who is against Warlock tanks spits out this same line of dribble about how "everyone will want a tank spec for their class". Shamans finally having an Earth based tanking spec is logical. Warlocks having a Tank spec is logical for the 765849 reasons listed in this thread. Hunters healing and Mages tanking isn't logical, and people need to stop trying to make it a valid argument.

  9. #189
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    We're not asking for a Glyph. We're asking for a tank spec for a class that's been tanking at least 1 boss every tier since BC.
    What bosses have we "tanked" in the last 3 tiers? Im all for Tanking Spec for warlocks, im just interested if what your saying is true or not.
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  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Pisholina View Post
    When Blizzard changed Death Knights to give them a proper tanking spec, they removed the ability for Unholy and Frost to tank, and for Blood to DPS. I like the change overall but, as a DPS Blood in WotLK, I was upset. Do you really want another change like that?

    Also, if Blizzard implemented Warlock Tanks, they'd also have to implement Shaman tanks because they were also requested a lot, and some players acually managed to pull it off. Then, Hunters would be asking for a tanking spec, as well as Rogues and Mages. After that, healers would QQ about there obly being 5 healing and 10 tanking classes, so we would also get healing Death Knights with blood magic, Warriors with bandages, Blood Mages, Hunters shootong fruits and veggies at allies to heal them etc.
    dawg you just went full slippery slope

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    And most people forget that changing a pure to a hybrid doesn't stop you from dps'ing at all.
    But it does change one thing that matters to pure dps classes. Rogues, Hunters, Mages, and Warlocks usually are the top dps in raids. Maybe not on every fight but on most. Taking that pure dps thing away and warlocks dps will go down to be balanced with the hybrids.

  12. #192
    Herald of the Titans crakerjack's Avatar
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    I guess im down for Warlock tanks, as long as their damage is nerfed beyond shit when they are a tank. there's no logical reason to have a huge tank minion and still be able to put out the same dps. Massive reduction in damage to compensate for the tank minion... sure, i'm down with that. It's still a stupid idea... it's more stupid than shaman tanks or any other ideas people have suggested. Warlocks will be casters, deal with it, you want to tank... reroll.

    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  13. #193
    Stood in the Fire
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    Last thing we need are more specs. Game is already watered down enough. If locks get a 4th spec then everyone will want one, and we already have 5 classes that can tank.

  14. #194
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    But it does change one thing that matters to pure dps classes. Rogues, Hunters, Mages, and Warlocks usually are the top dps in raids. Maybe not on every fight but on most. Taking that pure dps thing away and warlocks dps will go down to be balanced with the hybrids.
    Now I know you play a shaman, so let me ask... is this a bad thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    I guess im down for Warlock tanks, as long as their damage is nerfed beyond shit when they are a tank.
    Why would it be, if anything, it would be buffed.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    With the recent addition of AV giving a vengeance like effect, the only thing preventing warlocks from being full-fledged tanks with Dark Apotheosis is the artificial removal of Crit Immunity from DA form, as well as the change of Provocation to an actual taunt, and a numbers pass.


    You can downplay how close warlocks are to being actual tanks as much as you want with a false slippery slope argument, but at this point warlocks could easily tank with a few, extremely easy, basic changes (which are essentially reverting old changes).
    And so can every other spec.

    Shamans- Frostshock rockbiter shields
    Hunters- Say hello to your new main tank Cuddles the cat.
    Mages- Buff that Iceward. Make that ice armor the shit.
    Rogues- Combo points=longer lasting evasions! Kinda like how tanks are now with needing something to activate Shield block savage defense blah blah blah


    New class Demon Hunter......Well hell you have Demon in your name and hunter so shouldnt you be able to be both tanks....Like cmon Cuddles can be main tank and I can be offtank with my demon range powers of immense whining.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-22 at 02:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Now I know you play a shaman, so let me ask... is this a bad thing?
    In terms of the large amount of the community that is crying because how KJC nerf will affect their precious dps....Then yes it would seem that it will be a bad thing for most avid pure dps players.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    And so can every other spec.

    Shamans- Frostshock rockbiter shields
    Hunters- Say hello to your new main tank Cuddles the cat.
    Mages- Buff that Iceward. Make that ice armor the shit.
    Rogues- Combo points=longer lasting evasions! Kinda like how tanks are now with needing something to activate Shield block savage defense blah blah blah


    New class Demon Hunter......Well hell you have Demon in your name and hunter so shouldnt you be able to be both tanks....Like cmon Cuddles can be main tank and I can be offtank with my demon range powers of immense whining.

    In terms of the large amount of the community that is crying because how KJC nerf will affect their precious dps....Then yes it would seem that it will be a bad thing for most avid pure dps players.
    I'll add that, in regard to the simple changes Brusalk mentions insofar as reverting the changes that were made in Beta - those changes were made, because they were grossly overpowered, and they were so, because they bore no relation to the active mitigation model of tanking that the other tanking specs use and which the game was balanced around. Those changes really aren't that simple.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    What bosses have we "tanked" in the last 3 tiers? Im all for Tanking Spec for warlocks, im just interested if what your saying is true or not.
    Spirit Kings and Lei Shi were both Warlock tanked last tier. I've kited on Heroic Tortos, and tons of Warlocks Meta tank nests on Heroic Jikun. Thinking more about it, we didn't tank anything in Dragon Soul, unless you count Meta tanking the big add on Heroic Zon'ozz. In Firelands we Meta tanked the birds on Alysrazor (500k dps anyone?) and in T11 I tanked Heroic Whelps and tanked adds on normal Maloriak. In T10 it was Blood Council, T9 we didn't tank anything that I can think of, but I'm sure we could have tanked adds on a fight or two. Naxx, we Hateful Strike tanked (Can't really count that) and pet tanked something (I can't remember what, I just know we did it.). Sunwell it was the Twins, Tempest Keep it was the Astromancer. That's as far back as I care to go, but there's probably more, and there's probably much better examples than the ones I gave.



    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    And so can every other spec.

    Shamans- Frostshock rockbiter shields
    Hunters- Say hello to your new main tank Cuddles the cat.
    Mages- Buff that Iceward. Make that ice armor the shit.
    Rogues- Combo points=longer lasting evasions! Kinda like how tanks are now with needing something to activate Shield block savage defense blah blah blah

    UGH, I have to respond to this argument for a 2nd time in a few hours...
    Shamans- again, viable argument, they should get an Earth based tanking spec. They almost deserve it as much as we do.
    Hunters - Pet tanking is never, EVER a good argument. A Pet doesn't move or think properly, and it simply doesn't make any sense at all with the structure of this game.
    Mages - No, just no.
    Rogues - Oh, you mean Monks? Yeah, they already have combo points for evasion. Not going to happen again.



    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    I guess im down for Warlock tanks, as long as their damage is nerfed beyond shit when they are a tank. there's no logical reason to have a huge tank minion and still be able to put out the same dps. Massive reduction in damage to compensate for the tank minion... sure, i'm down with that. It's still a stupid idea... it's more stupid than shaman tanks or any other ideas people have suggested. Warlocks will be casters, deal with it, you want to tank... reroll.

    We're not looking to pet tank, bro. Also, our current tank form has the dps of a wet noodle. It would be buffed dramatically.


    Quote Originally Posted by tangers58 View Post
    Last thing we need are more specs. Game is already watered down enough. If locks get a 4th spec then everyone will want one, and we already have 5 classes that can tank.
    People said this when Druids got a 4th spec, yet the only class verbally rallying for a 4th Spec is Warlocks. Probably because we rightfully should already have one.
    Last edited by Teye; 2013-06-22 at 07:59 PM.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    We're not asking for a Glyph. We're asking for a tank spec for a class that's been tanking at least 1 boss every tier since BC.
    What did we tank in Naxx? Ulduar? ToC? BOT? ToT4W? etc.etc.etc.

    You should say, we tanked a boss in SSC, in TK, in BT, in Sunwell and in ICC. Narrows it down to 4 tiers, out of 16. 5 bosses out of lolhowmany

  19. #199
    Banned Junblat's Avatar
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    tanking nest for 5 sec isnt tanking teye, nor is kitting considered tanking, jsut casue u can survive more than other classes running away doesnt mean you are a tank.

    Also we should get a tank spec and mages is "No, just no"

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Spirit Kings and Lei Shi were both Warlock tanked last tier. I've kited on Heroic Tortos, and tons of Warlocks Meta tank nests on Heroic Jikun. Thinking more about it, we didn't tank anything in Dragon Soul, unless you count Meta tanking the big add on Heroic Zon'ozz. In Firelands we Meta tanked the birds on Alysrazor (500k dps anyone?) and in T11 I tanked Heroic Whelps and tanked adds on normal Maloriak.
    I'm not sure any of those can be even remotely put in the same catagory as Leotheras / blood council / twin emps, there's a difference between tanking something and it being intended.

    As Filth nicely posted, it's been a grand total of 5 or so bosses that we've been intended to tank, if we start including fights we've kited or tanked for a few seconds, then hell - hunters have been doing that since UBRS.

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