View Poll Results: Should Warlocks receive a fully supported tanking specialization?

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  • Yes, even if demonology dps will be removed in the process.

    33 20.50%
  • Yes, but only implemented in an additional fourth spec.

    42 26.09%
  • Maybe, i'm interested but it may harm the class/game as a whole.

    9 5.59%
  • Maybe, i have no interest but more options are always good.

    3 1.86%
  • No, developer ressources should be invested elsewhere.

    18 11.18%
  • No, this is not the proper direction for the game/class.

    56 34.78%
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  1. #301
    I think it would be awesome to add, Warlocks do feel like the most "tanker'ish" caster, and there are some "logic" behind in lore wise, about powering yourself in a demon form. But i wont happen, For then all other also want a new "role" mages want healering since Time spells, Rogues want to be a tank, Hunters, i think also a tank(a super defensive bm) shamans, already have DPS and healer, but sure also tank, and the same for priest. It would start a wave of whine not seen since Hordes players acually for ones lost a npc
    (i am 20 and dyslexic so yes i suck at spelling)

  2. #302
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post
    - Druids. Blizzard has recently split feral into 2 specs and does not like 1 spec having two roles. They will 100% not repeat this mistake unless they decide to split demo into two specs. Two different specs revolving around metamorphosis? Can't see it happening myself they would be too similar.

    Being able to change from DPS to Tank DURING A BATTLE and on the fly is a hell of a lot different than making a Lock Tank dependent on Glyph Switching which cannot be changed in combat or in BGs that are active

  3. #303
    I don't know...
    I would like warlock-tanking, even as demonology, but I would not want Demonology DPS to go away. I would rather have the option to "go tank" (via glyph or spell) and lose my dps while I'm in that "tank-mode".

    What should i choose from the poll?

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyand1337 View Post
    I don't know...
    I would like warlock-tanking, even as demonology, but I would not want Demonology DPS to go away. I would rather have the option to "go tank" (via glyph or spell) and lose my dps while I'm in that "tank-mode".

    What should i choose from the poll?
    If you still want Demo DPS then I think the 4th spec option is what you are looking at. If Blizzard ever decides to do it I think that's the best solution too.
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  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyand1337 View Post
    I don't know...
    I would like warlock-tanking, even as demonology, but I would not want Demonology DPS to go away. I would rather have the option to "go tank" (via glyph or spell) and lose my dps while I'm in that "tank-mode".

    What should i choose from the poll?
    I don't think a combined dps/tanking spec is a realistic option, actually i believe GC already stated they nerfed DA because they don't want people to change roles just by applying a specific glyph or switching into another stance.

  6. #306
    Epic! Skayth's Avatar
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    Well lets begin with hybrids and their introduction to Wow Hybrid came into wow close to the end of Burning Crusade, and gained superiority in WoTLK where they became full fleged dps with Healing and Tanking.

    So lets explain. In the original WoW, vanilla, They created Dps, Healers, and Tanks. They created offspecs for the tanks and healers. so they could attempt to level faster, but in the end, they really didnt. If you were a Shadow priest, you were doing it wrong. If you were a Ret Pally, you were doing it wrong. You leveled as Healer and as Tank. And this is what you did in end game, You tanked or you healed as any of these "Hybrid" classes. You could not dps at all. These Hybrids did not exist in wow. So, when the changes came around, the "true" pure classes were left out on most everything, and as a lock, you stil shadowbolt spammed through Burning crusade, even though you watched other classes getting buffs to survivability or damage, cause they were hybrids, but as a warlock, all you did was spam Shadowbolt. Then Wotlk came, and with it, Hybrids became full fledged Hybrids, and even at the end of the expansion, the Hybrid taxed was taken away, so you could see hybrids passing pures in the meters. The truth of the matter is, with the taking away of the Hybrid tax, pures died as well.

    Why be a pure Dps, when a Druid could do the same damage as you, if not more, pending the nerfs at the time, and you can heal and tank if you really wanted to? The hybrids by this point can do, if not the same dps as a pure, or more. Then they can also do things on the side if they want too, like heal or tank. Pures were left behind in the OLD VANILLA MODEL. Their will never be a new "pure" class added to wow, as it does not fit the new Blizzard logic, where Paladins SHould Just Heal, Druids should just Heal, Warriors should Just TANK. The truth is, Pures are a dated class concept that should be abolished, as one of the last remaining things of vanilla. It would increase the population of the Dying Pure Classes.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by chaotus View Post
    I don't agree with your belief. Allowing evolution of a class into something more then it originally was conceived as is not in of itself a terrible concept. You pull facts out of your arse about fringe of fringe when in reality the novelty of it alone would be attractive to the vast majority of general consumers attracted to shiny things. Human nature and what not.



    I am intrigued by the concept of just tanking in demon form, it's fresh and new.



    Properly explain to the multiple people who have asked you now why warlock tanking in some way removes your ability to enjoy the game by causing you to suddenly not be "PURE" as you have stated. I'm not sure what gaming cred you try to roll around with about your "pure" dps class but where do we apply to get this stupid "pure" license as well to flaunt to the other players for gaming cred? I'm interested.
    Most likely blizzard will redesign one of the specs for tanking, mostly demonology. You deny people who enjoy demonology as a dps.

  8. #308
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    I would love that, but I think Locks have had a bit too much recently, wait awhile before flooding the official forums lol, theres still a bunch of other classes that are still 7 or so years old.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfen View Post
    Why be a pure Dps, when a Druid could do the same damage as you, if not more, pending the nerfs at the time, and you can heal and tank if you really wanted to? The hybrids by this point can do, if not the same dps as a pure, or more. Then they can also do things on the side if they want too, like heal or tank. Pures were left behind in the OLD VANILLA MODEL. Their will never be a new "pure" class added to wow, as it does not fit the new Blizzard logic, where Paladins SHould Just Heal, Druids should just Heal, Warriors should Just TANK. The truth is, Pures are a dated class concept that should be abolished, as one of the last remaining things of vanilla. It would increase the population of the Dying Pure Classes.
    On the contrary, with healers and tanks now able to effectively quest and perform in almost all aspects of the game in those specs, the need for a DPS spec has gone. I think it was GC who even said that dual spec "fixes a problem that no longer exists" because of that. And so, I'd contest that the need for a class to have a fully fledged DPS spec is what is truly outdated.

  10. #310
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    I would love that, but I think Locks have had a bit too much recently, wait awhile before flooding the official forums lol, theres still a bunch of other classes that are still 7 or so years old.
    Case in point, it says something that I do think locks (again, both mains, alts, and non-players) would benefit from this.

    By contrast, I don't think that shaman tanking fits the toolkit of the class as much as warlocks nor do I think it would be as beneficial to the game (as a player who plays a shaman alt). I don't think that paladins "need" a ranged DPS spec despite the fact that I'd get a lot of quality of life from it (as a player who plays a paladin main) as much as warlocks would benefit from a tanking spec considering that paladins already can perform every role in the game. Don't get me wrong, I "want" the spec, but objectively I don't think it's as "needed." This can go on.

    I don't think death knights should be healers, plain and simple. Nor, for that matter, do I think warlocks should be healers despite the fact that I would play both specs if introduced. I think a much better "fun" glyph would be one where death knights and warlocks got some hybrid healing ability similar to DPS priests (perhaps a "rogue medic" glyph also). That would be much more useful compared to a "pseudo-tanking" glyph and one which would be much easier to balance. Most of the "hybrid tax" (or better yet, "utility") drama/bullshit is because of hybrid healing in raids. Allowing all classes some hybrid-type heals in raids would actually make DPS balancing a lot less painful. Allowing all classes some simple healing ability increases leveling quality of life a lot more than "Dark Apotheosis" does.

    Face it, in today's day and age there's no point to a "pseudo-tanking" glyph, might as well make it a real tanking spec (since it works, just needs balance and a few but not many additional tools), a 4th spec if need be. Benefits extend past lock mains, so "it only benefits the warlock main population" is not an argument against it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-24 at 11:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    And so, I'd contest that the need for a class to have a fully fledged DPS spec is what is truly outdated.
    And no one would be happy if you took away class abilities to perform roles, and by a similar (not exactly the same logic) adding class abilities to perform roles only tends to better the game.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-06-24 at 11:53 PM.

  11. #311
    Epic! Skayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    On the contrary, with healers and tanks now able to effectively quest and perform in almost all aspects of the game in those specs, the need for a DPS spec has gone. I think it was GC who even said that dual spec "fixes a problem that no longer exists" because of that. And so, I'd contest that the need for a class to have a fully fledged DPS spec is what is truly outdated.
    true, at this point, if they added a class without a dps spec, I would not be surprised. But the statement I was trying to make is entirely different. It is the fact that we are the remnants of a dead design, and are showing it in the numbers. I just cannot comprehend why people cling to it. It is like they are the people in denial that Mists of Pandaria was not the expansion. Progression is needed to our design. It is needed in the rogue design more so. But right now, we are a dying breed. Will their be people who play a warlock till the end? yes. I am one of those, for better or for worse. Yet, if us pures dont get a design soon, we will be like the minifernal pets, or my grunty pet, where people say "omg thats so rare whered you get that?" or even the zulian tiger... that i never got =(. We will be that rare thing.

  12. #312
    Legendary! Rorcanna's Avatar
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    No thank you. I don't like the thought of warlocks doing stuff like that. They're damage dealers, enjoying melting faces of enemies from a distance and sacrificing their demons to save themselves.

    That feeling when there's a new expansion out and you sit in a Garrison wondering what the hell to do because you are stuck on an entire continent like Timeless Isle, only with flightpaths to encourage afk travel coz "immersion".

  13. #313
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfen View Post
    true, at this point, if they added a class without a dps spec, I would not be surprised. But the statement I was trying to make is entirely different. It is the fact that we are the remnants of a dead design, and are showing it in the numbers. I just cannot comprehend why people cling to it. It is like they are the people in denial that Mists of Pandaria was not the expansion. Progression is needed to our design. It is needed in the rogue design more so. But right now, we are a dying breed. Will their be people who play a warlock till the end? yes. I am one of those, for better or for worse. Yet, if us pures dont get a design soon, we will be like the minifernal pets, or my grunty pet, where people say "omg thats so rare whered you get that?" or even the zulian tiger... that i never got =(. We will be that rare thing.
    Wolfen I completely agree as someone who (finally) up and left with a good portion of the reason due to this. It's the reason I haven't even "re-activated" my lock to be an alt in favor of other classes, I just see no reason to have pure alts (again, especially given the time investment required for alts now compared to Cataclysm, so "play for fun" isn't as easy as it sounds) except to farm Junkboxes and be bank alts.

    Adding more classes, as if there aren't already enough now, will honestly only compound the problem and it is the last thing the game needs. You're reducing class representation of the existing classes, especially the "low-pop" ones, even more and that's going to lead to smaller and smaller class communities. A big reason often given for why rogues are almost dead as the class is because monks appeared and were able to "steal" a lot of the rogue population due to being so similar, but with modern quality of life and ability to heal and tank.

    Do I think a "new" Demon Hunter class will be cool? Hell yeah, I would play it in an instant. It also means I will probably never touch my warlock again. It would be the outdated Blingtron 3000, and who the fuck needs that when the 4000 is out (with working legs... oh, I mean, a tank spec).
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-06-25 at 12:00 AM.

  14. #314
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    There is nothing more ironic and laughable about lock tanking than a paladin telling a lock to 'go roll a tank'.
    Vanilla paladin would like a word with you...paladin come lately lol
    Let the locks tank, promise, you won't get benched, if you aren't a bad player....
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  15. #315

  16. #316
    Epic! Skayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    If pures are dying, why are hunters the second most played class in the game, according to warcraftrealms.com?
    why are warlocks rogues at the bottom of the list with mages going down in population. Hunters are the most played right now because they are freaking op in arena. or did you forget? Plus their numbers are going down as well.

  17. #317
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    If pures are dying, why are hunters the second most played class in the game, according to warcraftrealms.com?
    They've traditionally been strong since Day 1, and they are typically easy to pick up and solo the game with. That said mage population despite usually being good has declined a lot. Hunters also have a lot of problems in raids (low DPS) with a completely dead spec (they are a 2 spec class). Also Hunters are doing really well in PvP... almost too well.

    I actually disagree with wolfen's arena argument simply because arena representation is pathetic overall and only going to go down more with their ruinous changes ("crowd chose you buff") unless that is removed from 5.4.

    They also take the "pet class" niche over warlocks, easily.

  18. #318
    Druids, the most hybrid of hybrid have also always been strong, but their numbers have slipped too.

    Also, interesting you say arena rep is overall low, yet your arguments are very 'hardcore' raid-centric, which is similarly lowly representative.

  19. #319
    We did sorta tank Leo (ssc) and Illidan. Fun times~

  20. #320
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Also, interesting you say arena rep is overall low, yet your arguments are very 'hardcore' raid-centric, which is similarly lowly representative.
    They aren't. The only "hardcore-raid centric" argument I have is the unpopular one that no class should have 3 DPS specs because it makes balance a bitch and tends to lead to "dead" specs both in PvE and PvP. It's also the suggestion I believe is the best "in theory" but the one I acknowledge will be almost impossible to implement in practice.

    The quality of life arguments are actually far from "hardcore-raid centric." For starters, most people in hardcore raiding guilds are the least "hurt" by playing a pure. They will steadily have people to queue with when needed, they maintain tons of alts (instant reroll if they want), and they aren't generally queuing much at all except the start of an expansion (usually in their groups).

    No, the people hurt most by playing pures with the quality-of-life issues are people who primarily pug trade chat or queue LFD/LFR and those who have limited in-game time to wait forever to find a pug/queue. That is the group I'm really centering around with my arguments, who have high representation, and are arguably the target audience.

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