Okay. Blizzard needs to really make Warlock Tanks a 100% reality

[Aeula]

Shaman's and warlocks should be able to tank, that way every armor type can tank, heal and DPS.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

The belief that we're running out of tanks in LFG / LFR because we don't have sufficient classes capable of doing it is total nonsense and everyone here with an ounce of common sense knows it. The reason there is a shortage of tanks, is because much like healing, it is a niche role that appeals to a niche group of players.

No.

The problem is the community. Particularly those self-entitled little twerps who've forgotten to take their Adderall and run around, either screaming at the tank to GO GO GO or pulling prematurely. Doubly so, those same self-entitled little twerps who then act like it's their job to do it, and that it's okay because it's LFR/5-man/other random group of choice.

Lots of people have tanks. Lots of people play tanks. Most of them avoid the random-grouping interface at all costs, preferring to go in with their crappy DPS gear and spec just to get the job done simply so they don't have to be the ones that have to deal with them.

Don't blame Blizzard. Don't blame the tanks. Blame the community.

[Amnasty]

What i find funny is the hypocrisy, i DO think warlocks should be able to tank, as a spec, making then NOT like every other caster dps spec.

Blizzard show us its possible, the bounce the idea around, then say no, cant happen because of pvp.

BUT THEN they give demo locks TANK DEBUFFS in PVP BG's.... we aren't tanks according to you... dont give us debuffs MEANT for tanks... unless you want to give us a relevant tank spec.

[Count Zero]

Even as a proponent of Warlock tanking I think it has to be looked at in terms of cost/benefit. Would it be worth the development time ? Blizz doesn't seem to think so.

I really wonder how many locks would tank if they could. I know I would. I already maintain a DK tank in case my guild ever needs me to tank. I'd much rather just do that on my main. Don't get me wrong, I'd always prefer to dps, but if we need a tank I'm not gonna say "sorry, but nope". Maybe it's because I'm an officer, but I see it as "guild's needs > my wants". My guild has helped me achieve all the WoW goals I set for myself, and more, and I repay loyalty with loyalty. (which is not to say that if the guilds needs completely did not align with my goals anymore that I'd feel obligated to stay)

And at least on my main, I don't have to go through the hassle of grinding out rep / valor / LFRs on my alt to keep it viable as a fill-in. Even at the extreme of needing a completely separate gear set, I'd rather do that than gear out another character completely.

But, again, I can see where Blizz is coming from. Just seemed so close to actually happening when when we had the full toolkit (minus Vengeance + non-mastery mitigation/avoidance) in beta. Maybe time will tell.

[ComputerNerd]

No offence, but why is the role unattractive to warlocks? if its simply "because I dont want to be forced to tank" when in reality, not every warrior tanks, and refuse to do so. Or is simpy the fact "im a pure class, and it should stay that way," and to this I say pures are a dead idea and should be forced out of peoples heads, as it is a total let down on the possibilities.

I am not saying that, try reading a bit more carefully.
I am saying that the tank role in general does not remain attractive, irrespective of class.
If people are playing tanks, then they sure aren't coming in random groups with them.

The community is unforgiving of inexperience, and is way too harsh on someone trying to learn a new role and making mistakes while doing it.
That is why there is a lack of tanks, and adding more options will never solve the issue.
Whether this proving ground really is a good teaching tool remains uncertain at this point, but ultimately its an attempt to fix what cannot be fixed, by taking players out of the environment in which they really should be learning, but rarely got the chance to.

[nightfalls]

I am saying that the tank role in general does not remain attractive, irrespective of class.
If people are playing tanks, then they sure aren't coming in random groups with them.

Right, because tanking random groups needs a reward, and without said reward nobody's gonna want to do it. That said if you want to do a run, perhaps if you had a tank spec you'd find being able to do the run itself is a reward.

The community is unforgiving of inexperience, and is way too harsh on someone trying to learn a new role and making mistakes while doing it. That is why there is a lack of tanks, and adding more options will never solve the issue.

Perhaps more people having the ability to tank (even as an experiment) instead of over half of the classes in game unable to tank (and over a third unable to do anything but DPS) might increase the amount of people who give it a try.

That in turn might make said players more forgiving of others who are learning.

[NoiseTank13]

I was so stoked at the prospect of tanking Warlocks at the end of Cataclysm.


And so crushed when it did not come to pass.

[Deleted]

Know what? Give me back the wotlk/cata design of affliction and you can have a tank spec.

[Deleted]

No, because the "shadowy guy who has selfhealing and tanks" niche is already taken.

Stealing/using the exact same niche as another class's identity is no more, no less than a slap in the face and the one and only reason I'll never be in favor of such an idea.

I'm not sure that's justification enough to bar tanking, as long as they could thematically and mechanically set it aside from the other classes, and just because you couldn't think up a way to do that in a few minutes doesn't mean blzizard couldn't considering they've had more than 10 years of designing the indisputable top dog of MMO gaming couldn't.

That said, I do agree that warlocks shouldn't end up just becoming tanks - there are plenty of tank classes to roll if you want one, we certainly shouldn't become one through the glyph interface, and I have major problems with the idea of 4th specs.

[barrsftw]

I like the current state of warlock tanking. Maybe give them a niche tank role that could be viable in "a few" raid encounters as a tank similar to TBC and I'd be happy. They are almost there.

[kendro1200]

Well that Ghostcrawler you all talk about must be the most powerful man alive. Do you really think that one person makes all the decisions?

He has a strong influence over the decisions. There was a serious design shift on warlocks from TBC and Vanilla to WotLK, and WotLK is when he took major control over development. In Vanilla and TBC lock tanks were acceptable to the devs, IN FACT, lock tanks were needed for a handful of fights. In WotLK and onwards, any time a lock tank popped up, things were nerfed. MoP is the first time a warlock has even published the capability of tanking raid content and we didn't get all around earth shattering nerfs/redesigns on every ability used in the following patch since TBC.
To top it off, in MoP beta when warlocks were turning into legit tanks thanks to dark apoth glyph GC stated they were going to nerf the glyph because they weren't comfortable with warlock tanks, nor did they like warlock tanking be accessible through a glyph.

[Tapzer]

or we could have Warlock tanking become a reality through the glyphing interface that trades damage for survivability passively so it's not super op in pvp but viable in pve.

I hate the argument "just roll a tank", I have played all 4 tanking classes (pre-monk) at level cap at least a little bit, and have a druid dk and warrior at level cap atm all which can tank (and a paladin that's almost 90), but my warlock is still my favorite to tank stuff on because the mechanics are just more fun I think.

edit: another thing is, if warlocks were given the 6% crit immunity and just a slight bit more passive damage reduction, they'd be as viable as any other tank.

I think you have more fun tanking on your warlock because warlocks are not tanks, Once they become tanks its not as cool cause any warlock can do it.

[nightfalls]

No, because the "shadowy guy who has selfhealing and tanks" niche is already taken.

Stealing/using the exact same niche as another class's identity is no more, no less than a slap in the face and the one and only reason I'll never be in favor of such an idea.

Surprisingly, I agree with your statement.

But I don't think if warlocks got a tank spec (or if a new class in an Outlands/Burning Legion expansion got a similar tank spec), that the DK niche would actually be stolen. For one, DK's in general have more of a plague/shadowfrost theme, while Warlocks have a chaos/shadowflame theme.

Also, all most/all tanks have some form of self-healing now with it being a major part of druid/paladin tanking.

[Count Zero]

No, because the "shadowy guy who has selfhealing and tanks" niche is already taken.

Stealing/using the exact same niche as another class's identity is no more, no less than a slap in the face and the one and only reason I'll never be in favor of such an idea.

Says the DK to the Warlocks ...
*cough*Deathcoil*cough*

:P

[Deleted]

Right, because tanking random groups needs a reward, and without said reward nobody's gonna want to do it. That said if you want to do a run, perhaps if you had a tank spec you'd find being able to do the run itself is a reward.



Perhaps more people having the ability to tank (even as an experiment) instead of over half of the classes in game unable to tank (and over a third unable to do anything but DPS) might increase the amount of people who give it a try.

That in turn might make said players more forgiving of others who are learning.

I agree that the lack of tanks is probably due to the relative lack of rewards vs larger responsibility (are there any numbers on how Call to Arms: Tanks, the LFR/D additional reward for low-pop roles, affected the tank population?)

Personally, I don't think you can rely on players being nice to learning players in random dungeons, especially during the 90-95 range. Thinking back to DKs, you've got people who were levelling their class up to Outlands and so knew how to heal/dps with that class, meanwhile DKs had limited (infact, n the context of the Acherus zone, there's practically zero chance to learn tanking) experience, and so that friction created the infamous Hellfire Ramparts Dumb Knight that didn't know how to tank and wiped. Of course, some DKs did know, but the combination of DKs being ideal for someone who levelled a cloth or DPS class and didn't want to level a warrior, and people who had little patience for Outlands levelling made a bad combination, I remember tanking (and often DPSing) Death Knghts having a stigma around them. It's part of the reason why Monks are made at level 1.


EDIT: On the idea of "being too close to another class' flavor", I think we need to wait and see if they're going to create a Demon Hunter class or not. If they are, I honestly think we'd be too similar to them. If definitley not, then I could understand the cries for Warlock tanks more, though I still would not agree.


---------- Post added 2013-06-22 at 01:31 PM ----------

Even though people say "all the people that want to tank are already playing a tank class", sorry but im not, and I want to tank.

A survey of one is not a census.

[ComputerNerd]

Right, because tanking random groups needs a reward, and without said reward nobody's gonna want to do it. That said if you want to do a run, perhaps if you had a tank spec you'd find being able to do the run itself is a reward.

People play as dps without some extra reward to play that role, so there should not need to be some extra one for tanking or healing.
If there is the need to bribe players, then you should take a good look at why.

Perhaps more people having the ability to tank (even as an experiment) instead of over half of the classes in game unable to tank (and over a third unable to do anything but DPS) might increase the amount of people who give it a try.

That in turn might make said players more forgiving of others who are learning.

That player attitude is hurting the desire to tank, and no extra amount of options will solve that.
Greater responsibility, and the expected responsibility to deal with the shortcomings or downright stupid behaviour of others. Not unlike healers.

If a dps facepulls, tanks are expected to save them. If a dps stands in bad stuff, the healer is expected to save them.
Why is there no expectation for the dps to not take that damage in the first place.

A role described as dps or damage is taken too literally and should be about a lot more than humping the meters, but in your share of the responsibility.
Tanks and healers play their role in mitigating, or neutralising the bad stuff coming your way.
So why can you not do that for them, by reducing your upkeep.

[jani1805]

I would love to tank on my warlock.

Too bad blizz doesn´t want it to happen

[brirrspliff]

no. mages should be able to be tanks. with magic shields. not warlocks.

[Deleted]

no. mages should be able to be tanks. with magic shields. not warlocks.

Proposal
Evidence/Contributing Factors
Outcome, and Suggestions...


Sorry, just putting in the definition of a full argument for people incase it's helpful. I'd love to know the reasoning why, if any, Mages have an arbitrary reason to be tanks where Warlocks don't (and I'm on the anti-hybridization side!)

[Deleted]

I would be happy to be able to use my warlock as a main tank. I was instantly amazed by the idea the minute these things came to the MoP-Beta.

I do want to emphasize though, that the ability to tank should come with using normal cloth caster gear or wearing other types of armor thats already available with tank stats. Nobody would be happy about further bloated loot tables only because locks need cloth with parry and dodge. In my opinion there should be a conversion of caster stats to defensive stats/abilities, so regular cloth gear could be used. Maybe spirit would be a good option for that, so tank-locks need to obtain at least another set of gear to be able to fit both roles, dps and tank.

However, I don't really see that coming.