[Ele] Good reasons to NOT make Crit viable

[Nebria]

they can change the proc rate for Unerring Vision of Lei Shen for us like they do it for moonkins already. when it is ok for moonkins why shouldn't it be ok for us? isn't starsurge damage also higher than lavaburst damage?
also the trinket will not last forever.

I like the idea of crit = proc because we would have a scaling for the chance. even if it won't force us to stack crit you automatically gain more crit if you gear level raises and so we would automatically get an effect from it. if we start raiding in 20% crit and end raiding in 25% crit is might not be a huge jump but in the end we got 5% proc chance from "nothing" and they "fixed" the lavaburst does not benefit from crit in some "minor" way.

[Laere]

So basically this thread turned into OP getting butthurt over people not praising him for being 13/13H, so he's resorting to harassing those who are trying to have a civilized discussion over the topic at hand. Man this generation of kids.

[BlissfulBlithe]

• Lava Burst: Lava Burst will always deal a critical strike and its damage is increased by your critical strike rating.

• Lava Surge (Passive): Your Flame Shock periodic damage ticks have a (10% + Critical%) chance to reset the cooldown of Lava Burst and make it instant cast.

(10% + Critical%) so that we wouldn't fall short of our original 30% and end up having it result in a nerf.

Fixed.

[Vanisara]

I think we're getting a little heated over something that may never come to fruition. Not because of the standard "It's PTR!" but because as far as I can tell the Devs are not convinced it's the right thing to do. See Ghostcrawler's Tweet from yesterday (easy to miss given all the flare ups over 'lock changes)

Ghostcrawler, JusAnotherTotem This will mean a direct nerf since we have such low base crit now, plans for compensation?

christofalee, JusAnotherTotem We don't even know if we're going to make the change. It was just an idea.

twitter.com / Ghostcrawler / statuses / 346708368079085569

(my apologies for the broken up link. I'm not past the threshold yet)

[Deleted]

What about lowering the intervals between Flame Shock ticks to two seconds, instead of three? Would that make up for the low crit rating at lower gear levels?

[demoncleaner]

I always like it when they bring up a stats scaling. That being said, I wish they would give it the chaos bolt treatment instead.

[Volitar]

So basically this thread turned into OP getting butthurt over people not praising him for being 13/13H, so he's resorting to harassing those who are trying to have a civilized discussion over the topic at hand. Man this generation of kids.

As soon as I read the whole hey guys I'm 13/13 look at me thing I went downstairs and made some popcorn before I read the rest of the thread. Perhaps Mr. Perfect wouldn't mind posting logs so we can see how god plays?

Also the title "Good reasons NOT to make crit viable" is hilarious, It's a good reason not to buff a stat that has been bottom of the barrel for the entirety of the game because you feel like trying to get the maximum mathematical dps out of your character would be too hard?

[binkenstein]

And btw, I prefer to listen to people who cleared the content, rather to someone who didnt even raid this expansion. Sounds hyperbole and hilarious in some ears, but thats reality.. :/

Given that we're not talking about current content, I'm not sure how it's relevant. Oh, and regarding clearing current content, yeah, I'm totally not doing that, right?

Perhaps change Lava Surge procs so they also increase the damage of Lava Burst. It means that crit rating will indirectly increase the average damage of your Lava Bursts.

The thing with changes like that is that they increase the burst factor, which is already problematic in PvP. The suggested change actually reduces that burst since there isn't much crit on current PvP gear, but I'm still on the fence about whether it would be a good change overall.

[Recom]

Should crit stay inferior to mastery/haste ? No. As some stated the difference would be minimal and frankly I don't bother optimizing my gear to perfection anymore since the difference is <1%

Is the proposed change the one we do not deserve but the one we need ? I don't know, we'll have to see to be sure.

In any case it would be totally insane with UVoLS and I must say I want to test it !

[Deleted]

I've read the recent interviews how they want to make Lave Surge proc from FS crits instead of normal ticks, this would add significant value to our crit rating.

I dont know about you, but I already feel doing too much for my min/maxing than most other classes like warriors (stacking crit), fire mages (crit), shadows (crit), boomkins (crit...) and I could go on and on.. I've to run so many SimCrafts to find out the perfect point where I have balanced Haste/Mastery, always keeping in mind when Haste/Mastery x2 is > Int, this goes for reforging, gemming and enchants. I simply dont want to care about a third secondary stat, which again takes time from my actual game time, which I've to put into SimCraft.

In fact, I hate SimCraft for being so slow (and I'm already using 8 cores) and that you've to run multiple different settings after every new item. Sadly that its a requirement in this chart/rank based WoL community what WoW currently (or the upper raiding scene) is.

--

TL;DR (Oo?): 13/13H Elemental shaman says that WoW is becoming too complicated/time consuming... trolololol..

i don't want to sound rude, but i browse these forums from time to time, and i see people saying stuff without backing it up all the time, and it generally annoys me, because where i'm from, starting facts without backing them up is pretty much worth northing, and yes, maybe you are 13/13, it's not really an impossible feat to have accomplished at this time of the tier, but with no armory link or whatever, the statement itself is worth nothing.

i'm also interested in you saying that it's a must to use simcraft after every new item you get, i personally used simcraft 2-3 times in all of MOP, but i still think my performance in raids is decent, not only because simcraft results has to be taken with a big pile of salt, but because i'd rather use my time to know the fights im about do progress on from one end to the other rather than use 8 hours on a 5k dps increase that's gonna depend on RNG anyway because of rppm trinkets, because atm, that's what's fucking the logs, the amount of procs and the timing of them. now that's obvs. my personal opinion, but i dont personally care about rankings, i noly care about my guilds rank, because that's what really matters, and i'd personally rather spend my time researching fights than using simcraft because i feel the gain is so much bigger.

[Deleted]

I would work if they removed the always crit of Lava Burst and increases its damage by 150%. So a normal hit would still be something like 150k but a crit would be 375k(250%).
This will make crit useful and bring back the danger of LvB it self.

ye lets make lavaburst hit harder than chaosbolts and be instant proc, able to copy itself twice, great ideas xD

In PVP? You still need to think about the resilience then. So it's like: 150k*0.35(65%Resi)=52.5k / 375k*0.35(65%Resi)=131.25k Thats not more than a Chaos bolt.
Also you need to factor in the crit chance so lets say in pvp you have 17% Crit or so. That isn't too Bursty imo.

Granted i don't PVP as Ele, so i could be totally wrong here.

[Deleted]

In PVP? You still need to think about the resilience then. So it's like: 150k*0.35(65%Resi)=52.5k / 375k*0.35(65%Resi)=131.25k Thats not more than a Chaos bolt.

It's much easier to counter a chaos bolt.

[whyabadi]

The thing with changes like that is that they increase the burst factor, which is already problematic in PvP. The suggested change actually reduces that burst since there isn't much crit on current PvP gear, but I'm still on the fence about whether it would be a good change overall.

It is an idea for a change of a somewhat mechanical nature; numbers can be adjusted later.
Why I personally think of it as a bad change, referring to GC's revelation here, is purely for how the players will likely perceive it: gearing for crit rating so I cast more Lava Bursts which do not benefit from all that extra crit may feel a bit unnatural to the average player. Now this is just a guess.

[Socialhealer]

It is an idea for a change of a somewhat mechanical nature; numbers can be adjusted later.
Why I personally think of it as a bad change, referring to GC's revelation here, is purely for how the players will likely perceive it: gearing for crit rating so I cast more Lava Bursts which do not benefit from all that extra crit may feel a bit unnatural to the average player. Now this is just a guess.

thats the main issue i have with it, changing it is a clear buff for me with over 20% crit in raids so any buff is welcomed, but knowing that lava burst doesn't get affected by crit in anyway always feels so retarded compared to say a moonkin where crit works on their dots to proc starsurge, then has a chance to make starsurge crit. starsurge also crits for over double the damage of a lava burst so you can really see the value of it on all spells.

[Deleted]

As for the topics you've mentioned, you should really go back and re-read them, since your memory doesnt serve you well in most of the cases.

I actually did, the primordius one is pretty obvious, it was like what, 2 months ago? You claimed that elementals always would be sat out for warlock alts, and then got disproven quite quickly by some advantage chain lightning spam logs.

Stormlash and pull rotation:

Potion > EB (2 secs before pull)
FE > FS
LvB > Asc > LvB... ...

STT is used after Asc generally. People simmed it to be a DPS lose in 5.0.. doubt anything changed since then.

Followed up with this when i discredited you on the stormlash issue

Spreading half knowledge is even worse than a rogue not using tricks. You come on this forum without evidence for your claims and insult a general standard we had going on for over half a year now... yep, so pro.

After that when i sent the true facts about stormlash you ofcourse became quiet and didn't say anything more in the topic. Point proven? Let's get back to ontopic i guess.

It's fine to post your own opinion, but then you will get others opinions also. I don't know if you've noticed yet, but a few people on the MMOC forums are fairly harsh and have fairly strong opinions when it comes to different subjects. They A: maybe didn't agree with you or B: got mad because of your OP and started to flame you instead.

[Trollfat]

Lava surge change would completely kill Ele in PvP. No thanks.

[Deleted]

naa changing it would be baaaaaad