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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    Obviously Blizzard disagrees with you. LFR is easy mode, people who want it to be harder are running the wrong mode. But soon you'll have Flex raids. If Flex raids don't work for you either, then just accept that you are the exception to the LFR crowd and stop fighting it.
    And this is why LFR should have been 493 gear max, instead of 502 gear.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by OrionAntares View Post
    And this is why LFR should have been 493 gear max, instead of 502 gear.
    I imagine people would still complain if they were blues. LFR is 20 levels behind normal, why are we complaining about what it drops ? LFR is also intended to help people catch up to be ready for normals, great for alts. Our guild has benefitted greatly from bringing in someone at 502+ilvl versus someone at 490+ and we're all happy that we don't have to keep running TOES and HOF for the undergeared folks.

  3. #23
    Dunno, I saw the typical bunch of wipes the first couple of weeks but recently I've oneshot or two shot him in early week and late week groups. I think people bail more on the memory of how it used to be. They also perhaps bail because he drops no tier whereas the two before him do. I know on my hunter I only want the bow of Iron Qon in that wing and on my druid I just want tier from IQ and Twins. I need nothing off Lei Shen. If it's a good group I'll stick around but even if it's a group that's doing well people leave. Now, if he dropped, say, the Tier helm...

    The main reason I stick around though is that he's my fave fight in that place.

  4. #24
    The Patient
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    I don't remember the last time I wiped to Lei Shen more than once.

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire
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    The most painful thing about Lei Shen now is when the tank(s) leave after Twins. I was sat on his platform yesterday for over 20 minutes waiting for the last tank to join. It took us longer to go from the trash before him and killing him than it did for us to get from the start and down Twins.

    Mind you, the current tank shortage is far more reaching than just this fight.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Outofmana View Post
    I guess you can just stack up in the middle now? The first fight in LFR to take at least 30seconds of doing tactics, setting up marks and it gets nerfed to beyond retardation level again. I felt like Lei-Shen was just right for LFR and all LFR fights should work like that one.
    Ummm... have you been in LFR? 30 seconds of "you go here, I'll go there" is about 40 to 50 times the amount of effort that the average LFR player is willing to put forth. In fact, anything other than standing in place and shooting a boss is too much effort for them.

    I'm perfectly okay with LFR becoming a bunch of Patchwerk fights that I can just tunnel-vision on my alts. It's less painful for good players like myself, and less frustrating for terrible players like... well, most of the people in LFR.

  7. #27
    I wonder where you guys play, really. I haven't wiped on Lei Shen since the first week it was opened. The only think I need to do is place 4 marks and click a /RW macro.
    Works like a charm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    I don't do math, blind assumptions work so much better for me.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    Ummm... have you been in LFR? 30 seconds of "you go here, I'll go there" is about 40 to 50 times the amount of effort that the average LFR player is willing to put forth. In fact, anything other than standing in place and shooting a boss is too much effort for them.

    I'm perfectly okay with LFR becoming a bunch of Patchwerk fights that I can just tunnel-vision on my alts. It's less painful for good players like myself, and less frustrating for terrible players like... well, most of the people in LFR.
    Thus the argument of why even introduce the mode. You could replace it with an in-game YouTube player and show a boss kill video, after which you rolled for loot.

    Sure "everyone" can do LFR... but everyone could collect free loot from a mailbox too, and it would be popular.

    Bandaid fixes for all.

  9. #29
    High Overlord Etherius's Avatar
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    Yeah, bouncing bolt will be pointless...

    But we'll see just how many people keep stacked up for diffusion chain.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by arel00 View Post
    I wonder where you guys play, really. I haven't wiped on Lei Shen since the first week it was opened. The only think I need to do is place 4 marks and click a /RW macro.
    Works like a charm.
    I haven't had any issues either. First week took us 5 wipes (way less than durumu), second week it was a guild group and after that never had an issue. Someone always sets up marks and does a RW. Everyone knows what to do, 1 shot the boss with typically 0-2 deaths.

  11. #31
    This is a bit of a joke, but it's LFR. Having mechanics that require eye sight is apparently too difficult. I might try doing LFR blindfolded this week. Wonder how many times I would die.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by arel00 View Post
    I wonder where you guys play, really. I haven't wiped on Lei Shen since the first week it was opened. The only think I need to do is place 4 marks and click a /RW macro.
    Works like a charm.
    It's entirely up to the tanks, really. When the tank does not even realize a pillar is gone and kites him there, a wipe is much more likely

  13. #33
    I know that what I'm about to say is going to sound like anathema to most of you, but if you have a boss in LFR which requires you to plan out what is going to happen by things like groups, marks, moving healers around, etc, then it's overtuned.

    You guys have this weird thing going on where you're upset because people in LFR want good gear, so you say "well LFR is just to see the fights, you don't need gear/mounts/achievements/etc, if you just want to see the fights, let the real raiders have those", but then when Blizzard makes the content easy in LFR, you get upset because it's too easy and "all you're doing is seeing the fight and facerolling the keyboard, you're scrubs who get stuff handed to them for free". Well yeah, that's what you guys just said LFR is for!

    There are players in this game who, like it or not, simply are not skilled to how you'd want them to be. We all know that Pandaria normal difficulty raids are considerably harder than WotLK and Cat normal difficulty raids - the players who could just scrape by in WotLK are obviously going to hit a brick wall here in Pandaria in normal mode difficulty, and you can't expect that all of them are going to suddenly get better. Some people simply won't, and that's what LFR is designed for.

    This is just the reality of the game. There are some really good players who are cruising through heroics, some average players who are doing normal, and some bad players who are doing LFR. You've got the entire gamut of abilities, and Blizzard is trying to make a game that works for everyone. Cutting bad players off from a gametype that is designed for them doesn't help anything.

    So yeah, of course its going to seem silly to nerf Lei Shen, for players who are doing it on normal and heroic. For LFR players however, the expectation of 25 random people, some of who barely know their own rotations, to all work as a cohesive fine tuned unit is not realistic - this demand for them to be a cohesive, fine tuned unit who can exercise strategies like this... well, that's not a LFR, that's a guild raid - and there is a reason those people are not in a guild.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    Ummm... have you been in LFR? 30 seconds of "you go here, I'll go there" is about 40 to 50 times the amount of effort that the average LFR player is willing to put forth. In fact, anything other than standing in place and shooting a boss is too much effort for them.

    I'm perfectly okay with LFR becoming a bunch of Patchwerk fights that I can just tunnel-vision on my alts. It's less painful for good players like myself, and less frustrating for terrible players like... well, most of the people in LFR.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flayrot View Post
    I know that what I'm about to say is going to sound like anathema to most of you, but if you have a boss in LFR which requires you to plan out what is going to happen by things like groups, marks, moving healers around, etc, then it's overtuned.

    You guys have this weird thing going on where you're upset because people in LFR want good gear, so you say "well LFR is just to see the fights, you don't need gear/mounts/achievements/etc, if you just want to see the fights, let the real raiders have those", but then when Blizzard makes the content easy in LFR, you get upset because it's too easy and "all you're doing is seeing the fight and facerolling the keyboard, you're scrubs who get stuff handed to them for free". Well yeah, that's what you guys just said LFR is for!

    There are players in this game who, like it or not, simply are not skilled to how you'd want them to be. We all know that Pandaria normal difficulty raids are considerably harder than WotLK and Cat normal difficulty raids - the players who could just scrape by in WotLK are obviously going to hit a brick wall here in Pandaria in normal mode difficulty, and you can't expect that all of them are going to suddenly get better. Some people simply won't, and that's what LFR is designed for.

    This is just the reality of the game. There are some really good players who are cruising through heroics, some average players who are doing normal, and some bad players who are doing LFR. You've got the entire gamut of abilities, and Blizzard is trying to make a game that works for everyone. Cutting bad players off from a gametype that is designed for them doesn't help anything.

    So yeah, of course its going to seem silly to nerf Lei Shen, for players who are doing it on normal and heroic. For LFR players however, the expectation of 25 random people, some of who barely know their own rotations, to all work as a cohesive fine tuned unit is not realistic - this demand for them to be a cohesive, fine tuned unit who can exercise strategies like this... well, that's not a LFR, that's a guild raid - and there is a reason those people are not in a guild.
    Pretty much this.

    LFR is suppose to be "minimal coordination". (Having to plan out the whole thing AND explain to everyone what to do AND hope they understand) XOR wipe = a tad bit much.

    Lei Shen has developed quite a reputation I must say. After twins chat fills up with "XXX has left the group" - either from people who don't want to do it or from people who have already done it because they joined mid-dungeon the last time to replace people who rage quit.
    Last edited by SodiumChloride; 2013-06-18 at 08:24 AM.

  15. #35
    Legendary! Asmekiel's Avatar
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    Ohh, so that's why I stand in the puddle. I came back from a break the week before 5.3, never read up on any tactics for ToT, just followed what others did. If moving a few yards to get into a puddle is too hard, why are you even in a raid to begin with?

  16. #36
    Next on the list:
    - Durumu's maze will have no effect whatsoever but the animation will remain in game
    - You can no longer get bad debuffs on Primordius
    - No more damage in Conductive waters on Jin'rokh
    - Horridon will now hug you instead of doing damage if you stand in Double Swipe
    - If Ji-Kun's adds get up they now damage the boss instead of the players, also the pools no longer deal damage, instead they give you a stacking 10% damage buff
    - Megaera will now have only 1 head up
    - Iron'Qon's lines are now only for decoration
    - Twins will now attack each other over some stupid girl stuff

    On a serious note, god forbid any coordination requirement to prepare the new wannabe raiders for real content, or provide even a tiny challenge for those who don't have time to get into a normal group.
    Last edited by kraner; 2013-06-18 at 08:09 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    The failure rate is still too high I would imagine. LFR Lei Shen has always been too complicated for LFR. Beyond retardation level ? is that why I still enter groups with 2-3 stacks ? It's too much for the crowd it's aimed at.
    I'd agree with thet for the first couple weeks. Was a nightmare and whenever you joined a group it was at Lei Shen ;-)

    Last three weeks Lei Shen LFR has been a one-shot in a group that started at Iron for me. Long as someone gets the marks down, assigns healers and groups its easy mode. Nerfs not necessary.

    People can learn.

    J.

  18. #38
    It's a bit late for the fix, it's been a while now since I've wiped more than once there. I even had several first tries without assigning any group to the corners.

    Applying the fix in the first week would have saved me some years of my life.

    But actually I think they nerfed the wrong mechanic. Running into the blue whirls to prevent adds from spawning is straight forward - I would rather have changed diffusion lightning, I have seen 10 adds spawning at once when people were cuddling. This ability is not very obvious (because you cannot really tell where the adds came from when you didn't read the journal or tactics), and is completely random (if it hits someone standing alone, nothing happens even when 15 people are grouped), so again if you don't know about the tactic, and standing in a group worked fine in the last kills, it is hard to realize this was the reason why in this wipe so many adds have spawned.

  19. #39
    Now they need to make electrified floor do no damage, so people who stand near deactivated pillar don't accidentally die. Or maybe implement pushback from phase 3 to move people away from those. Would be hilarious seeing them run right back to stand in void zones. Tactics, gotta follow them - the floor might burn me and there's nothing hapenning, but the raid mark is there.

  20. #40
    You could already ignore it. A strat I have been running for the past few weeks was have literally every single person stack on a marker, and just aoe the adds that spawn. The bouncing kept happening, but the adds stopped spawning in p2 after transition. It's insanely stupid how easy it is to do. I really recommend doing this strat if you are running lfr.

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