Page 10 of 22 FirstFirst ...
8
9
10
11
12
20
... LastLast
  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    KJ was the biggest walkover ever it seems. Let's ignore that prior to the 30% nerf patch only about 100~ guilds were able to kill M'uru. EVERYONE killed KJ. Yes. Totally.
    Why are we still talking about legendaries from TBC as if that's relevant?

    In TBC the difficulty of getting a legendary was entirely due to the horrible inaccessibility of raiding in the first place, the broken bosses, and the fact that the only thing you had to do to get them was pray for good RNG on the drop (and that your raid decided to give the weapon to you and not the other rogue/warrior/hunter/etc). In short, it wasn't difficulty so much as bullshit that stopped most people getting them. When raiding was so inconvenient hardly anyone had the time to commit to do it, it gave the impression the content was hard simply because it was rare...

    In Wrath and Cata when they finally figured out ways to make raiding accessible for more than a tiny handful of people they instead gated them behind long quest chains you had to complete. Again not really gated on difficulty, more on effort put in this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Why are we still talking about legendaries from TBC as if that's relevant?

    In TBC the difficulty of getting a legendary was entirely due to the horrible inaccessibility of raiding in the first place, the broken bosses, and the fact that the only thing you had to do to get them was pray for good RNG on the drop (and that your raid decided to give the weapon to you and not the other rogue/warrior/hunter/etc). In short, it wasn't difficulty so much as bullshit that stopped most people getting them. When raiding was so inconvenient hardly anyone had the time to commit to do it, it gave the impression the content was hard simply because it was rare...

    In Wrath and Cata when they finally figured out ways to make raiding accessible for more than a tiny handful of people they instead gated them behind long quest chains you had to complete. Again not really gated on difficulty, more on effort put in this time.
    TBC bosses (if we exclude Vashj) were hard, not broken.

  3. #183
    Herald of the Titans Kurgath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Draenor
    Posts
    2,847
    I really hope it's a weapon! That's all I hope for, because this was the longest Legendary Quest so far in WoW and if it doesn't reward a legendary Weapon I'm gonna be pissed. Orange gems don't count as a legendary.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Why are we still talking about legendaries from TBC as if that's relevant?

    In TBC the difficulty of getting a legendary was entirely due to the horrible inaccessibility of raiding in the first place, the broken bosses, and the fact that the only thing you had to do to get them was pray for good RNG on the drop (and that your raid decided to give the weapon to you and not the other rogue/warrior/hunter/etc). In short, it wasn't difficulty so much as bullshit that stopped most people getting them. When raiding was so inconvenient hardly anyone had the time to commit to do it, it gave the impression the content was hard simply because it was rare...

    In Wrath and Cata when they finally figured out ways to make raiding accessible for more than a tiny handful of people they instead gated them behind long quest chains you had to complete. Again not really gated on difficulty, more on effort put in this time.
    What you're failing to understand is that killing a boss(es), including the final boss with a traditional raid group is what Blizzard deemed adequate for a legendary in the past. Yes, all you had to do was step into the raid every week and wait for rng to get a legendary. That's because you were already able to kill those bosses, you've already met the difficulty requirements to obtain a legendary. This is not the case anymore in MoP, there are no difficulty requirements.

  5. #185
    Herald of the Titans Kurgath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Draenor
    Posts
    2,847
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    TBC bosses (if we exclude Vashj) were hard, not broken.
    They were broken because they were over tuned. I can make a Hogger boss who only has white attacks that deal 50 DPS and has about 10 trillion HP and set a 10 minute berserk timer and call it hard, because that's what TBC bosses were. Hard bosses are the ones where you have to use your brain most of the time and adapt to the situations. Classic and TBC raids were easy.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Endre View Post
    They were broken because they were over tuned. I can make a Hogger boss who only has white attacks that deal 50 DPS and has about 10 trillion HP and set a 10 minute berserk timer and call it hard, because that's what TBC bosses were. Hard bosses are the ones where you have to use your brain most of the time and adapt to the situations. Classic and TBC raids were easy.
    M'uru was overtuned? Maybe if your tanks sucked, but that's a player issue. Was offensive dispelling too hard? How was M'uru overtuned when guilds were able to kill it? Again, this goes back to "some people are better than you, get over it".

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Endre View Post
    They were broken because they were over tuned. I can make a Hogger boss who only has white attacks that deal 50 DPS and has about 10 trillion HP and set a 10 minute berserk timer and call it hard, because that's what TBC bosses were. Hard bosses are the ones where you have to use your brain most of the time and adapt to the situations. Classic and TBC raids were easy.
    Huge hyperbole, that is also wrong.

    TBC bosses were difficult due in part to a lack of tools in the raid. The actual required DPS/HPS/whatever was quite low relative to the ceilings possible at the time.

    TBC bosses were also difficult, because they were designed around a balanced raid setup, because classes were far less homogenized than they are now (I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, before you start) so unique abilities like Rallying Cry, Smoke Bomb, Revival, that you use these days were far, FAR harder to come across alternatives. Azgalor as an example required soulstone or revive rotations on people who died from Doom. Illidan's Shear essentially required a warrior because shield block was the only ability of it's kind then.

    The TBC bosses were good, and hard in their unique way. You are dumbing them down out of either bitterness or a lack of understanding. Why mask what is essentially a correct viewpoint, that current tier bosses are well designed and difficult, which is good, by bashing past iterations? It's asinine and childish.

    Also, no amount of mechanical design will make low tuned bosses hard. LFR is inherently tuned low, so it will never be hard to the point were anyone who is trying will struggle.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 02:10 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    M'uru was overtuned? Maybe if your tanks sucked, but that's a player issue. Was offensive dispelling too hard? How was M'uru overtuned when guilds were able to kill it? Again, this goes back to "some people are better than you, get over it".
    To add to this, M'uru WAS overtuned. ONE guild killed it before a nerf. Having a passive aura that pushed back spells, in a fight in which you HAD to stack resto shaman for chain heal created situations that were unhealable with an unlucky pushback.

    The fight following this change was probably the best tuned fight in history, but was also highly setup dependant. It could never be done again.
    Enhancement Shaman / Feral Druid

    “All things are subject to interpretation, whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.”

  8. #188
    Herald of the Titans Kurgath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Draenor
    Posts
    2,847
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    M'uru was overtuned? Maybe if your tanks sucked, but that's a player issue. Was offensive dispelling too hard? How was M'uru overtuned when guilds were able to kill it? Again, this goes back to "some people are better than you, get over it".
    It wasn't as complex fight when it comes to abilities, so in my book it doesn't make it hard. And you can't compare people to guilds, I was able to handle everything I had to, but if you don't have the people who can do the same you can't beat the encounter. Not everyone wants to be in a world 1st guild, some stick to guilds because of the social aspect, not bragging rights.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by markdall View Post
    Because how will they feel fulfilled, sitting at the AH on their challenge mode mount in their challenge mode armor with their legendary weapon, if someone from LFR can get it too?
    i think the answer to that is , who gives a flying ducks fuck what they feel? certainly not me and im sure many millions of others.
    If there is players out there that get all green eyed over someone else's achievements they need to go and crawl back under the rock they came from under. Heck how do people cope when there is a millions + people out in the world better than them if thats how they get in game.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Endre View Post
    It wasn't as complex fight when it comes to abilities, so in my book it doesn't make it hard. And you can't compare people to guilds, I was able to handle everything I had to, but if you don't have the people who can do the same you can't beat the encounter. Not everyone wants to be in a world 1st guild, some stick to guilds because of the social aspect, not bragging rights.
    That's true. Everyone in Method hate one another. They're only sticking around so that they can link WoWprogress in /2 and not because they enjoy the game.

    Seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredSausage View Post
    i think the answer to that is , who gives a flying ducks fuck what they feel? certainly not me and im sure many millions of others.
    If there is players out there that get all green eyed over someone else's achievements they need to go and crawl back under the rock they came from under. Heck how do people cope when there is a millions + people out in the world better than them if thats how they get in game.
    So you would be fine removing loot from LFR? I mean after all, if people get green eyed over someone's loot/achievements it must mean they're socially inept. The argument works both ways, don't be stupid on purpose.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Haxlax View Post
    Is something legendary if half the server runs around with it?
    What the fuck does legendary have to do with percentages or quantity? lol seriously...who gave birth to such stupidity?!?

  12. #192
    Herald of the Titans Kurgath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Draenor
    Posts
    2,847
    Quote Originally Posted by wordup View Post
    The TBC bosses were good, and hard in their unique way. You are dumbing them down out of either bitterness or a lack of understanding. Why mask what is essentially a correct viewpoint, that current tier bosses are well designed and difficult, which is good, by bashing past iterations? It's asinine and childish.
    Probably because I'm tired of people saying those raids were hard and today's aren't. I don't remember all the mechanics that well anymore, but I am certain I didn't have to be on alert for everything like I am today. Some bosses yes, but most were very straight forward when you understood what's going on.

  13. #193
    The quests so far have been based on gathering (apart from the Sha kill) I dont see why a legendary thats been obtained in such a way should be less available for LFR raiders, the difference will be the time it take you to get it. If you raid normal/heroics you already complete the quest faster (if you do LFR in addition to normal). the overall effort put into complete the quests is the same for both tier of raiders.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Endre View Post
    Probably because I'm tired of people saying those raids were hard and today's aren't. I don't remember all the mechanics that well anymore, but I am certain I didn't have to be on alert for everything like I am today. Some bosses yes, but most were very straight forward when you understood what's going on.
    ToT is harder than anything this game has ever thrown at the player base (minus Mimiron heroic and yogg-0 IMO) but that's only if you're using heroic mode as the basis for comparison. Normal and LFR are easier than anything in WotLK/Cata.

  15. #195
    Warchief Radio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Straya Karnt
    Posts
    2,110
    I'm fine with giving LFR players legendary items, legendaries come with lore and content to go along with them and I wouldn't mind if LFR players got to do things like the Black Prince scenario and such.

    I would prefer it though if the power of said legendaries were scaled based on particular raid milestones that you had access to.

    Example:

    1. Complete the collection quest
    2. Kill X final Boss to get X final item like usual
    3. If X final Boss was killed in LFR, give lesser power legendary, if normal, give full power legendary
    4. If player with lesser power legendary kills X final boss normal in the future, he is rewarded with an upgrade to a full power legendary

    Examples of lesser power vs. full power VS. possible/unlikely full heroic clear power:
    - 250 stats gem VS. 500 stats gem VS. 600 stats gem
    - 10 stacks Capacitance meta gem VS. 5 stacks Capacitance meta gem VS. 4 stacks Capacitance meta gem
    - 549 cloak VS. 590 cloak VS. 600 cloak (I think 600 cloak by default is a tad extreme lol)


    This means that:
    - legendary power is more appropriate to level of progression
    - all players experience content

    There could be a possibility to give full clear heroic players an even better version but it would only be useful for farm and pushing next tier a little faster.

  16. #196
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Cuthroat Alley, Stormwind
    Posts
    743
    Yes it will. They can't back out of what they've designed this whole expansion around. Gear is such a small point in WoW, but that tiny point is the driving force of the treadmill we're all on. I find other people getting legendary gear a small issue, if my guild is happy just doing what it does, I'm happy enough as it is.

    The debate on immersion and exclusivity is beaten to death though. I guess at the end of the day, if everyone is legendary, no one is.
    Naftc, "Hunters are the cheapest class in game and when played right are more deadly than a train plowing through a field of bunnies covered in napalm"

  17. #197
    Herald of the Titans Kurgath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Draenor
    Posts
    2,847
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    That's true. Everyone in Method hate one another. They're only sticking around so that they can link WoWprogress in /2 and not because they enjoy the game.

    Seriously?
    World First Guilds have to have that synergy indeed, all I'm saying is I wouldn't throw away what I have at the moment (the guild I'm in) for faster clearings of heroics.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post

    So you would be fine removing loot from LFR? I mean after all, if people get green eyed over someone's loot/achievements it must mean they're socially inept. The argument works both ways, don't be stupid on purpose.
    Ok so how many threads do you see on a weekly basis from casuals that run LFR that turn into a complete cock because someone has better gear than them. There is a difference in wanting that better loot (by joining pugs or a raiding guild) than others wanting it removed completely just because they feel the need to piss on others from a great height just becuase they want to feel 'special'. And also, who said anything about removing anything from LFR?!? I was clearly referring to the so called person that is sitting at AH not feeling fullfilled because everyone else has it too in the post i quoted, did you not read nor comprehend the whole post?
    What was that about being stupid again?
    Last edited by BatteredSausage; 2013-06-18 at 01:29 AM.

  19. #199
    Herald of the Titans Kurgath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Draenor
    Posts
    2,847
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    ToT is harder than anything this game has ever thrown at the player base (minus Mimiron heroic and yogg-0 IMO) but that's only if you're using heroic mode as the basis for comparison. Normal and LFR are easier than anything in WotLK/Cata.
    Well Heroics are what matters when it comes to difficulty since WotLK's HardModes, so yeah, it's all about Heroic content. Although, WotLK's Naxx, really? That was way too easy.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Endre View Post
    Well Heroics are what matters when it comes to difficulty since WotLK's HardModes, so yeah, it's all about Heroic content. Although, WotLK's Naxx, really? That was way too easy.
    Indeed, and ToT normal is still easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredSausage View Post
    Ok so how many threads do you see on a weekly basis from casuals that run LFR that turn into a complete cock because someone has better gear than them. There is a difference in wanting that better loot (by joining pugs or a raiding guild) than others wanting it removed completely just because they feel the need to piss on others from a great height just becuase they want to feel 'special'. And also, who said anything about removing anything from LFR?!? I was clearly referring to the so called person that is sitting at AH not feeling fullfilled because everyone else has it too in the post i quoted, did you not read nor comprehend the whole post?
    What was that about being stupid again?
    All I'm reading here is "you broke down my argument and I'm trying really hard to insult you but I'm failing." It's okay junior, daddy's home. Run along and play with your lego. Try not to swallow any this time. *hug*

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •