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  1. #401
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    Right now, running LFR doesn't even "grant" you the 600 cloak, you have to be good enough to complete the solo boss fight, and THAT'S the hard part, not grinding the components.
    20 pages and the answer is already on the first. It is actually a great idea, because when it counts it is about personal skill and the fight is the same difficulty for everyone.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-21 at 09:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Naeny View Post
    If the Celestial Blessing becomes a cockblock for the LFR crowd blizzard will step in with the nerf hammer once the masses reach that part of the quest so they can keep progressing on the 5.4 stage in LFR SoO, Would be naive to think blizzard will not nerf it if a lot of casuals and bads struggle with it and reaching it through LFR.
    ...because there are totally no casuals or bads in normal runs? Hell..if 6 years of raiding have taught me sth...then it is that bads are everywhere. Sorry, but if your guild is now in 1/13 HM or such...you have bads in your guild.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Sqeen View Post
    it will be definitely obtainable through LFR else the quest chain would make no sense at all for LFR raider only. On the other hand if you really want to make legendaries exclusive I would make it for 13/13 HC clear only. All the elitists here who cry for LFR loot nerf are most probably stuck on normal mode only and want there exclusive stuff from there too, isn't that a bit unfair for those who clear the content on heroic? Keep in mind that clearing the content on normal isn't that great of a deal!
    alot of the complaint with LFR nerfs are due to blizz being dumb. Like making LFR the same ilvl as heroic from the tier before, or making PPM trinkets where the LFR versons were a 5% dps increase over Heroic double upgraded trinkets. If I didn't have to go into LFR then I would stop complaining but blizz keeps making decisions that force heroic raiders during progression to do lfr. Like next tier where heroic raiders will have to do LFR for tier/trinkets, and flex for 536 gear which is still higher than last tier's non TF heroic gear.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Vapo View Post
    The solo quest for cloak is joke aswell, so yes, running LFR does grant you the 600ilvl cloak. I dont think LFR should have legendary. heck they shouldnt even have tier. They should just give offset items.
    I disagree, some people only raid LFR, like me and I only do it get upgrades and tier sets and legendary items, LFR is a difficulty just like HC and Normal is. As it is now LFR is gated and Normal is not, so normal has that advantage.
    Removing key item's and benefits from LFR will only please 0.01% of the player base. You must have accepted by now that LFR is just a 3rd difficulty.
    LFR is the best thing in wow since LFD, it means I don't have to spent my whole afternoon looking for a group.

  4. #404
    I think the LFR crowd will get a legendary wether you like it or not, most likely much later than normal/hc raiders. I see it as smarter version of annual pass.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    20 pages and the answer is already on the first. It is actually a great idea, because when it counts it is about personal skill and the fight is the same difficulty for everyone.[COLOR="red"]
    Heck, in a way, the solo fights are more challenging for LFR-geared players, because of worse gear than normal/HC ones.
    (I haven't reached the Celestial part yet, on Titan Runestones now, so my opinion is based on the one to get a Meta gem)

    BTW, how much more difficult is the one for a cloak?
    Last edited by Demoneq; 2013-06-21 at 07:52 AM. Reason: Fixing a typo.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    or making PPM trinkets where the LFR versons were a 5% dps increase over Heroic double upgraded trinkets.
    You forgot to add - trinkets "from previous tier". Eventually you will get much-much better version of trinket from normal/heroic mode. Those who do only LFR - that's the best they can get. You can't get even more greedy than that, can you?
    I think we should get a item "ala original "breath of heaven from 5.0 beta" that increases the ilvl of a weapon by 8-10 and adds a proc and turns it orange. so then LFR gets LFR legendary normal gets normal legendary and heroic gets heroic legendary.
    It goes as with phrasing "everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others". History shows that such approach always ends horribly.

    Meh, that's just another LFR-hateful thread with many people being victims of new religious sect, based on "Others should pray to us, kneel to us and lick our boots, thus noone should get [insert "legendary", "gear with comparable power", etc.] except us". Exaggerated, but many posters have obvious psychopathological disorder megalomania and can't comprehend that if game will go in the direction they want, they will have noone to play with anymore.

  7. #407
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    alot of the complaint with LFR nerfs are due to blizz being dumb. Like making LFR the same ilvl as heroic from the tier before, or making PPM trinkets where the LFR versons were a 5% dps increase over Heroic double upgraded trinkets. If I didn't have to go into LFR then I would stop complaining but blizz keeps making decisions that force heroic raiders during progression to do lfr. Like next tier where heroic raiders will have to do LFR for tier/trinkets, and flex for 536 gear which is still higher than last tier's non TF heroic gear.
    I don't know about you, but I'm not going to replace my 543s with 536s. People who get heroic loot generally upgrade it by 8 ilvls. Having enough valor to do so shouldn't be a problem for someone who takes raiding seriously enough to actually bother with some hcs, no?
    metanoia gone horde!

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  8. #408
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Keep it Civil. Don't attack other posters. Don't judge people by their gear or progress.
    Also stay on topic.
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-06-21 at 08:35 AM.
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  9. #409
    High Overlord Sqeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    alot of the complaint with LFR nerfs are due to blizz being dumb. Like making LFR the same ilvl as heroic from the tier before, or making PPM trinkets where the LFR versons were a 5% dps increase over Heroic double upgraded trinkets. If I didn't have to go into LFR then I would stop complaining but blizz keeps making decisions that force heroic raiders during progression to do lfr. Like next tier where heroic raiders will have to do LFR for tier/trinkets, and flex for 536 gear which is still higher than last tier's non TF heroic gear.
    I agree that LFR loot should not be better than upgraded or non-upgraded heroic loot (maybe on par with upgraded normal loot) since all your effort from the last tier raid will be meaningless. And it should also be tuned that heroic geared people should not have to do the LFR versions of raids they will attend in normal/heroic but had no drop luck or progress on yet.

    On the other hand the items have to have a certain level to fulfill their purpose in granting casuals and alts a possibility to catch up with the rest to get ready for real raiding or at least give casuals the possibility to stay competitive. It does not make sense if the items are below 495 since you won't be able to successfully do a heroic scenario then which should be open to everyone.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Sqeen View Post
    I agree that LFR loot should not be better than upgraded or non-upgraded heroic loot (maybe on par with upgraded normal loot) since all your effort from the last tier raid will be meaningless. And it should also be tuned that heroic geared people should not have to do the LFR versions of raids they will attend in normal/heroic but had no drop luck or progress on yet.

    On the other hand the items have to have a certain level to fulfill their purpose in granting casuals and alts a possibility to catch up with the rest to get ready for real raiding or at least give casuals the possibility to stay competitive. It does not make sense if the items are below 495 since you won't be able to successfully do a heroic scenario then which should be open to everyone.
    You can clear ToT in 490 item level though. If you need 520+ item level for ToT it's not a gear issue holding you back. Last night, in a random shitty 10 man alt run we had a Prot Warrior tank HC Jinrohk (on 10 man) in half PvP gear/half heroic scenario gear. We carried an Ele Shaman in 493 item level too. ToT really is an easy raid. I'm fairly certain 10 half decent individuals could clear the instance in 490~ item level.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeozordon View Post
    Listen here please explain to me where anyone is taking away your enjoyment????

    as a normal/hc raider the items was even faster to collect because of LFR you could get your drops from normal/HC and LFR in one week as where the dudes from LFR only had LFR to get it from so they worked even longer on their legandaries up to now and you just want to take it away from them, that my narrowminded friend is not very nice.

    and your right if the minority does not enjoy the game anymore WHO GIVES A SHIT!!!! its a MASSIVE-MORPG not a MINORITY-MORPG!!!
    I will quote myself, three or four comments above yours.

    Ofcourse it affects everyone. Value (personal and cultural value?) will drop. When everyone is a legend then being a legend is worth less. Maybe in your opinion it doesn't affect you but you can't say it doesn't affect anyone else.

    But anyway. I have a feeling you will be able to get one through LFR.
    You are narrowminded if you think getting a legendary through LFR takes more work. Create a guild that raids heroic mode and get a clue. Obviously some people here have no clue how much work it takes and they never will.

    And read what you are typing. A heroic raider gets it faster because he/she can do LFR and heroic mode. That's faster obviously because they play more but it's still more work than only slacking in LFR and not having to communicate with anyone or organise anything.
    Last edited by Gilian; 2013-06-21 at 09:47 AM.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    ...because there are totally no casuals or bads in normal runs? Hell..if 6 years of raiding have taught me sth...then it is that bads are everywhere. Sorry, but if your guild is now in 1/13 HM or such...you have bads in your guild.
    Never said anything about that and was not my point either, point was that if a lot of people struggle with it and if they could reach it through LFR blizzard will nerf it, there being players not playing perfectly or failing in organised raiding is an entirely different mather.

  13. #413
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    You are narrowminded if you think getting a legendary through LFR takes more work. Create a guild that raids heroic mode and get a clue. Obviously some people here have no clue how much work it takes and they never will.

    And read what you are typing. A heroic raider gets it faster because he/she can do LFR and heroic mode. That's faster obviously because they play more but it's still more work than only slacking in LFR and not having to communicate with anyone or organise anything.
    That's not correct.

    You get one chance at a boss per week. It's irrelevant whether you use your chance in LFR mode or normal/hc difficulties. A heroic raider doesn't have an advantage in this case other than not having been gated during the first few weeks and therefore having had earlier access to more bosses.
    metanoia gone horde!

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  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    That's not correct.

    You get one chance at a boss per week. It's irrelevant whether you use your chance in LFR mode or normal/hc difficulties. A heroic raider doesn't have an advantage in this case other than not having been gated during the first few weeks and therefore having had earlier access to more bosses.
    Sorry, I quit playing a while ago and misunderstood how it worked. But what I said is exactly what the person I quoted said, right?

  15. #415
    I still feel Legendaries should be hard earned by skill and not RNG/shitty collecting quests.

    In a way that Challenge Modes are but not exclusive to a raid group, 5 mans or solo questing. More so, an amalgamation of the three.
    But if you want players to have fleeting interest in a Legendary for a few weeks because it's not special then that's cool too.
    /unsub

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    I don't know about you, but I'm not going to replace my 543s with 536s. People who get heroic loot generally upgrade it by 8 ilvls. Having enough valor to do so shouldn't be a problem for someone who takes raiding seriously enough to actually bother with some hcs, no?
    Itemization much? like paladin tanks if you don't get the ring off ra-den than any hit/haste or expertise/haste or mastery/haste ring 536 will be better than what you have for your 2nd slot first slot being primo ring. I should have phrased it better. If your FULL BIS going into next tier you won't need it. If your not full BIS or your old 4 set was shit. or your new 4 set is fucking amazing ALA brewmaster monk's which I now play. you will have upgrades from flex even if you farmed 13/13hm for 2+ months.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    As much as we like to tell ourselves that all of us who raided in BC were super pro, the fights were not that hard then. I was in a casual raid doing only about six hours a week with a number of "dead weight" people in the group, and we downed Illidan (saw a Warglaive drop on our first or second kill, too). We were working on Twins in Sunwell when Wrath dropped. It can't possibly have been as hard as our memories like to tell us if that is the case.

    As far as the current scenarios, I will concede they're not much of a test of skill but they are a test of effort. That said, I hear the cloak one is a bit tough (I'm still on Runestones myself). But they're still enough of an effort, in conjunction with the dedication required to queue regularly for months and months and months, that I think the reward should be available for LFR raiders. Despite the fact the bosses die a lot easier, it still seems like way more work overall than, for comparison, the warglaive my casual raid got in Burning Crusade, which felt like pure luck.
    Sry for my late response

    I must say that your casual guild was very good since only 1% of ppl saw Sunwell Plateau. And since you got there by raiding only six hours a week then we can say that it didn't involve too much time like many people say it did.
    Anyways, my point was that the effort was spread across multiple tiers and not like many here say only for dumb luck with killing Illidan or Kil'jaiden. It was a journey, which I believe, was much harder then today's LFR or normal journey.
    And before someone jumps to conclusion that I don't want LFR people to get legendaries I am against that everyone who raids gets legendaries - that includes normal and heroic raiders too. They should be rare, hard to get and took quite some time to obtain. After the tier is over, happy hunting for legendaries.
    I believed Blizz shared my PoV since they don't allow xmog of legendaries because you would see hordes of ppl running around with Glaives or maces and that would destroy their legendary status.

  18. #418
    Stood in the Fire Drudatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    would keep arguing with you but armoried you
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Drudatz/simple. 0 normal kills and at least 15+ clears of every place on lfr. so no point in arguing with someone who is already insulting me and who has no idea what raiding is actually about. and will just keep giving me the LFR deserves more bib fed handouts.
    WoW you are able to use the Armory.... you still failed to prove your CLAIM where a HC raider is doing MORE on the legendary questline?
    As others pointed out the quests between the raidfarms are the only solo work and you seriously claim with ilevel535 you work harder as i did with 502?
    ROFLMAO.... btw kiddo I was in Nax when you was a wet dream so come again in 10 years when you have a life afk...

    Quote Originally Posted by momirmaster View Post
    but blizz keeps making decisions that force heroic raiders during progression to do lfr.
    BS YOU DECIDE so NOT Blizzard....

    Oh and you didnt pointed out why this all concerns a young toddler like you? you allways talk about hc raiders like your in the top 3 of hc progress and would count at all but you dont???

    Infracted; Don't attack other posters.
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-06-22 at 10:07 AM.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Drudatz View Post
    WoW you are able to use the Armory.... you still failed to prove your CLAIM where a HC raider is doing MORE on the legendary questline?
    As others pointed out the quests between the raidfarms are the only solo work and you seriously claim with ilevel535 you work harder as i did with 502?
    ROFLMAO.... btw kiddo I was in Nax when you was a wet dream so come again in 10 years when you have a life afk...

    BS YOU DECIDE so NOT Blizzard....

    Oh and you didnt pointed out why this all concerns a young toddler like you? you allways talk about hc raiders like your in the top 3 of hc progress and would count at all but you dont???
    What a mature poster...

    If you don't know what you're talking about you really shouldn't talk about raiding, Drudatz. It's quite clear you have no idea of the current problems/issues the "hardcore" raiding community face so please just stop?

    Also it's really annoying to have some idiots patronise me and say that I don't need to do LFR in t16 or Flex in t16 because I'm fully 543+ geared (2/2 upgrades, et al). That's really insulting because for some classes the new 4 pc is so ridiculously OP that you'll need to be in LFR week in, week out, just to get the absurd bonus that occurs. Not to mention that itemization will most likely be BiS for t16 as well, as well as the extra secondary stat on all items AND more gem sockets. Heroic raiders will be running LFR/Flex next tier. Stop saying we wont. You've no idea what you're talking about.

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    That's really insulting because for some classes the new 4 pc is so ridiculously OP that you'll need to be in LFR week in, week out, just to get the absurd bonus that occurs. Not to mention that itemization will most likely be BiS for t16 as well, as well as the extra secondary stat on all items AND more gem sockets.
    How many copies of each tier piece do you think you'll need before you're optimized? Sounds like you want at least 5 complete sets given the week in week out nature of your plan.

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