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  1. #241
    Garrosh haters gonna hate. He is still awesome! Loving it

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    He don't need to resist anything. The old god said "start a massacre", and Garrosh is like "ok, i'll kill everyone except orcs, good shit that we deserve it as the #1 race in the WoW"
    Think about it like about Eddie Brock and Symbiote.
    Exactly. And Old Gods still keep their followers around when they rule.

    But really, I can't think of a suggestion Y'shaarj could make that Garrosh wouldn't already agree with. He's already intent on gathering worshipers, world conquest and more. And Garrosh is already paranoid and willing to kill his allies before they can turn out to be a threat to him.

    So basically what can you whisper in his ear that would really change him?

    "Kill them all before they can kill you."? Garrosh has already been working on that policy.

    "The world is rightfully yours and only those who will follow you deserve any place on it."? Garrosh already thinks that.

    So really, how could you even corrupt Garrosh? He's already at the same moral level as the Old Gods.

  3. #243
    Dreadlord lavafoxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrakHed View Post
    I can't think of a suggestion Y'shaarj could make that Garrosh wouldn't already agree with.
    Thats the easy one: none, since y'shaarj is dead as a doornail.
    If you can't make fun of something, its probably not worth taking seriously.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    By canon is impossible to actually make an old god dead dead dead unless you want to also make the planet go boom. That's the reason they got imprisoned.
    Canon shmanon I stabbed Cthun and Yogg with my little pointy dagger and now they're both dead.

    To be honest, the canon is pretty vague about whether they're really dead or not, and the whole Titans/Old Gods end of the canon is a royal mess now.

    If mean if they REALLY can't be killed then maybe the next 10 expansions are just us fighting C'Thun over and over and over and over...

    Thought: maybe the Titans killed Y'Shaarj and Azeroth started to get all kaboomey and they thought shit, better not do that again and that's when they developed the whole imprisonment policy. Whooo retcon, delicious retcon.

    Quote Originally Posted by zhero View Post
    "They do not die, they do not live. They are outside the cycle" -- Herald Volazj
    A Lovecraft reference. Like most things Old Gods and their servants say.
    Last edited by Mormolyce; 2013-06-18 at 03:12 AM.
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    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Canon shmanon I stabbed Cthun and Yogg with my little pointy dagger and now they're both dead.

    To be honest, the canon is pretty vague about whether they're really dead or not, and the whole Titans/Old Gods end of the canon is a royal mess now.

    If mean if they REALLY can't be killed then maybe the next 10 expansions are just us fighting C'Thun over and over and over and over...

    Thought: maybe the Titans killed Y'Shaarj and Azeroth started to get all kaboomey and they thought shit, better not do that again and that's when they developed the whole imprisonment policy. Whooo retcon, delicious retcon.



    A Lovecraft reference. Like most things Old Gods and their servants say.
    They are all imprisoned, what we fight is an echo of them, I think....

    But I honestly think that it's the most bad ass way to end a character and end Garrosh, it's just so cool to me that he finally get's what he want's, which is power but at the cost of death by the revolution. Kinda brings a real life feel to it where it's not someone corrupted but instead actually doing whatever it takes to get MORE power. Honestly I think this is going to be one of the top 5 raids in the game.
    I'll tear you apart...
    Once my hand heals,
    I'll rip you apart...
    Tear you to shreds...
    Rip you into tiny pieces...
    And eat you! - Eren Yaeger

  6. #246
    Stood in the Fire unrealeck's Avatar
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    He's a bad man. Don't take sweets from him if he offers. In fact just don't talk to him.

  7. #247
    The Lightbringer Sesto's Avatar
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    I hope Garrosh dies a good death. Even though he has been evil and stuff, I don't want him dying like "OMG you betrayed me! You guys are bad and stuff! The Horde could have ruled the world and shit! I hate you all!" Well, I'd be okay with that, as long as we get some more. Something like how he just wanted to live up to his fathers name, or wanted to make him proud. Then throw in Thrall saying that you did the opposite of making him proud, or something.

    I'm not saying that I want Garrosh to be forgiven or anything, just simply give Garrosh a shred of humanity before he dies. Garrosh could have been a great character, had they actually developed him well. They don't really show his motives at all. All we saw was him wanting to destroy the alliance and make the Horde strong, and he never showed anything other than that. I think a novel from Garrosh's POV, showing the point where he becomes Warchief to his death would be amazing, and it could even make up for all the shitty things Blizzard has done with his character.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    the difference there is? Grom wasn't the racist thug Garrosh is, who segregated the horde and none orcs. He still had redeemable qualities, and even he died for what he did.
    The Draneai might disagree with you on that one he had no cause to go after them. The Horde in his time was exclusively orcs, maybe a few trolls thrown in but none of the others.

  9. #249
    Reason why he's Sha-Infused if because without it he's simply not powerful enough to stand up against a raid. The only way he (and Nazgrim) hold us off is because of a steady influx of grunt reinforcements. When those dry up, he's just a single Orc (and arguably not even an especially powerful or skilled one) - so he needs his superpowers.

    And honestly having a character use power like that is refreshing. Too many possessed and corrupted characters exist, having one free-willed and using such power is interesting.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 06:12 AM ----------

    Blood hell.

    Blizzard writes a new twist on a story and people complain saying its exactly like every other story - even when its not. They argue with the writers about the story despite not having even seen it yet (a double whammy). They don't even understand previous stories.

    And here's the kicker, they demand new things - and when they get them, they complain. Unpleasable fanbase who doesn't even know what it wants.

    Makes me wonder why you all stick around considering how much you badmouth Blizzard. But addiction is a terrible thing.

  10. #250
    Immortal Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Reason why he's Sha-Infused if because without it he's simply not powerful enough to stand up against a raid. The only way he (and Nazgrim) hold us off is because of a steady influx of grunt reinforcements. When those dry up, he's just a single Orc (and arguably not even an especially powerful or skilled one) - so he needs his superpowers.

    And honestly having a character use power like that is refreshing. Too many possessed and corrupted characters exist, having one free-willed and using such power is interesting.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 06:12 AM ----------

    Blood hell.

    Blizzard writes a new twist on a story and people complain saying its exactly like every other story - even when its not. They argue with the writers about the story despite not having even seen it yet (a double whammy). They don't even understand previous stories.

    And here's the kicker, they demand new things - and when they get them, they complain. Unpleasable fanbase who doesn't even know what it wants.

    Makes me wonder why you all stick around considering how much you badmouth Blizzard. But addiction is a terrible thing.
    It's because it's the same 5 people complaining about Blizzard every time.

    They use any ammunition, even when it makes 0 sense, they can find.

    It's a pathetic move.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
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  11. #251
    So now there are three groups of "uncorrupted villains" in Warcraft canon. The Nathrezim, the original corruptors of Sargeras. The Old Gods and Sha, elemental embodiments of corruption both physical, mental and moral. And Garrosh Hellscream. To say that one of these things is not like the others is a bit of an understatement.

    Garrosh's inclusion in this list does not elevate him. It cheapens the others. Severely. This "twist" is so half baked it's still frozen, and opens up enough plot holes to make Swiss cheese out of the existing lore. But hey, so long as it makes that douchebag Garrosh look even worse, no harm no foul, right? I mean, it's not enough that he's turned into a beefy Hitler expy. He has to be Hitler Cthulhu for it to be really interesting.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Canon shmanon I stabbed Cthun and Yogg with my little pointy dagger and now they're both dead.

    To be honest, the canon is pretty vague about whether they're really dead or not, and the whole Titans/Old Gods end of the canon is a royal mess now.

    If mean if they REALLY can't be killed then maybe the next 10 expansions are just us fighting C'Thun over and over and over and over...

    Thought: maybe the Titans killed Y'Shaarj and Azeroth started to get all kaboomey and they thought shit, better not do that again and that's when they developed the whole imprisonment policy. Whooo retcon, delicious retcon.
    I think that the reason the Old Gods are imprisoned rather tham dead is not because they are, somehow, immortal, but because of their ties to the very essence of the planet - it's not by accident that their armies consist of the very elements that the planet is made of - the destruction a war to the end against them would bring to Azeroth would be of such magnitude that pretty much life on Azeroth would end.

    I agree though that Blizzard has made a mess of the lore about the Old Gods. There is a very particular reason that even Lovecraft himself never went to much detail about the specifics of Cthulhu. He wanted to instill a sense of greatness in him; greatness beyond human understanding.

    The Old Gods and the titans started as such larger-than-life beings, but bad writing, blatant fan-service, and depletion of interesting lore concepts led to Blizzard attempting to use them, with the horrible results that this has wrought to the story of the game. Old Gods and Titans belong in WarCraft's pantheon of lesser deities. Not the creator(s) of the universe, but still beings of such cosmic stature that are beyond mortal understanding. By trying to use them directly in stories, you pretty much ruin their uniqueness and purpose in the lore. And jump several sharks, and some whales while you are at it. Because it's just fucking ridiculous. Ten-year olds can come up with better concepts than severed limbs making people hallucinate for a bit, before they snap out of it and stab them in the eye/brain/nostrill/whatever piece was doing the Hallucinatrix spell. Ridiculous. It's exactly what you get when you don't know how to keep from going overboard and lose most sense of proportion. I wish they never involved them in the game other than is a mysterious, vague way.
    Last edited by Drithien; 2013-06-18 at 06:30 AM.

  13. #253
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    So now there are three groups of "uncorrupted villains" in Warcraft canon. The Nathrezim, the original corruptors of Sargeras. The Old Gods and Sha, elemental embodiments of corruption both physical, mental and moral. And Garrosh Hellscream. To say that one of these things is not like the others is a bit of an understatement.

    Garrosh's inclusion in this list does not elevate him. It cheapens the others. Severely. This "twist" is so half baked it's still frozen, and opens up enough plot holes to make Swiss cheese out of the existing lore. But hey, so long as it makes that douchebag Garrosh look even worse, no harm no foul, right? I mean, it's not enough that he's turned into a beefy Hitler expy. He has to be Hitler Cthulhu for it to be really interesting.
    There is no plot hole related to his corruption. You're making stuff up. Garrosh doesn't cheapen the other villains. There are many villains and sources of evil. It does not cheapen the others. Some do evil things differently. Some are utterly obvious and not subtle. You are basically saying it has to be one source and or group of villain or else the others cheapen each other which is asinine.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2013-06-18 at 06:31 AM.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Drithien View Post
    The Old Gods and the titans started as such larger-than-life beings, but bad writing, blatant fan-service, and depletion of interesting lore concepts led to Blizzard attempting to use them, with the horrible results that this has wrought to the story of the game. Old Gods and Titans belong in WarCraft's pantheon of lesser deities. Not the creator(s) of the universe, but still beings of such cosmic stature that are beyond mortal understanding. By trying to use them directly in stories, you pretty much ruin their uniqueness and purpose in the lore. And jump several sharks, and some whales while you are at it. Because it's just fucking ridiculous. Ten-year olds can come up with better concepts than severed limbs making people hallucinate for a bit, before they snap out of it and stab them in the eye/brain/nostrill/whatever piece was doing the Hallucinatrix spell. Ridiculous. It's exactly what you get when you don't know how to keep from going overboard and lose most sense of proportion. I wish they never involved them in the game other than is a mysterious, vague way.
    Sadly, this sums up my feelings about the subject quite well. Back in Wrath I was incredibly excited by the prospect that we would be battling against an Old God (I wasn't really around for C'Thun, so it didn't mean much to me.) But then afterwards I was left feeling awfully confused. "Did we really just march into an Old God's layer and kill it? A being so immensely terrifying that even looking upon it should mean incurable insanity or instant death?" By this point in the story nobody finds Old Gods to be any sort of meaningful threat, let alone mysterious and awe-inspiring.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    What if Garrosh becomes an Old God himself at the end?
    Mod Edit: <img snipped>

    Yeah, uh. Not going to happen.

    [This post was infracted for minor spam.]
    Last edited by Rivelle; 2013-06-18 at 01:38 PM.

  16. #256
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    He's in control up until he hits Phase 3, at which point Y'shaarj takes over.
    I really don't think that will be the case. The whole point of Garrosh this expansion has been to give us a villain that isn't being manipulated by an Old God, because they've received so many complaints about final bosses not being responsible for their own actions.

    His physical form is being corrupted by Y'shaarj's power, yeah, but I'm confident that he's suppressing Y'shaarj's will and acting entirely on his own accord. That's what his development has been building to for the entire expansion: mastering the sha.

    Garrosh Hellscream says: With the Divine Bell, I will burn away any remnants of weakness within us. Fear... despair... hatred... doubt. The lesser races are buried beneath their weight. But WE will control their power.

    Garrosh Hellscream says: Fight the sha - master it! Use it!

    Garrosh Hellscream says: Yes! Feel the power within you. Fight your fears. Conquer your hatred!

    Garrosh Hellsceram says: Doubt is for the weak! Do not question your strength, Ishi. We will survive because we must! The Horde will prevail!

    Garrosh Hellscream says: Our suffering is at an end. When this war is won, our people will see prosperity at last.

    Garrosh Hellscream says: Control your hatred, Ishi. There is killing, and then there is murder. Direct your rage to our enemies.

    Garrosh Hellscream says: Use your fear, Ishi! Turn it on your foes. When death arrives, will you stand and face it or kneel in defeat?

    Garrosh Hellscream says: There is much I do not know about this artifact. The weak-willed cannot control this sha energy, but I WILL master it.
    It's all about Garrosh mastering the power and controlling it, rather than letting it control him. Anything less would be a cop out, and against Blizzard's intention for his character arc.

    Even at the most basic level, the Sha are a manifestation of an individual's emotions, not the other way around, and the Sha of Pride is no different. This whole expansion has been about the Horde and Alliance birthing an enemy from their own actions. The Sha are a result of the doubt, fear, anger, hatred, violence, despair, and pride that the Horde and Alliance have brought to Pandaria. They are not the result of an Old God's plot -- Y'shaarj's heart is little more than an extremely powerful tool which Garrosh is weilding.

  17. #257
    This thread confirms that the Sha of Pride is real.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    So now there are three groups of "uncorrupted villains" in Warcraft canon. The Nathrezim, the original corruptors of Sargeras. The Old Gods and Sha, elemental embodiments of corruption both physical, mental and moral. And Garrosh Hellscream. To say that one of these things is not like the others is a bit of an understatement.

    Garrosh's inclusion in this list does not elevate him. It cheapens the others. Severely. This "twist" is so half baked it's still frozen, and opens up enough plot holes to make Swiss cheese out of the existing lore. But hey, so long as it makes that douchebag Garrosh look even worse, no harm no foul, right? I mean, it's not enough that he's turned into a beefy Hitler expy. He has to be Hitler Cthulhu for it to be really interesting.
    Sargeras is not corrupted in the sense of corruption we are talking about. He changed his philosophy about what this universe should be. That's all.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 09:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    I really don't think that will be the case. The whole point of Garrosh this expansion has been to give us a villain that isn't being manipulated by an Old God, because they've received so many complaints about final bosses not being responsible for their own actions.

    His physical form is being corrupted by Y'shaarj's power, yeah, but I'm confident that he's suppressing Y'shaarj's will and acting entirely on his own accord. That's what his development has been building to for the entire expansion: mastering the sha.



    It's all about Garrosh mastering the power and controlling it, rather than letting it control him. Anything less would be a cop out, and against Blizzard's intention for his character arc.

    Even at the most basic level, the Sha are a manifestation of an individual's emotions, not the other way around, and the Sha of Pride is no different. This whole expansion has been about the Horde and Alliance birthing an enemy from their own actions. The Sha are a result of the doubt, fear, anger, hatred, violence, despair, and pride that the Horde and Alliance have brought to Pandaria. They are not the result of an Old God's plot -- Y'shaarj's heart is little more than an extremely powerful tool which Garrosh is weilding.
    This makes me think that the reason Garrash is not corrupted is not because he is already bad but more like he conquers it all. quite badass actually.

  19. #259
    Nearly time to bring old garrosh behind the woodshed and put him out of his misery

  20. #260
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    Makes me wonder why you all stick around considering how much you badmouth Blizzard. But addiction is a terrible thing.
    I fear you stroke the right point. In the official forums is a common view crying complainers saying that Blizzard has gone too far, that is doing only bullshit and just days and they'll quit...too bad that they say it every time, every expansion and keep playing. God, that is amusing to death, really.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-18 at 03:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    It's all about Garrosh mastering the power and controlling it, rather than letting it control him. Anything less would be a cop out, and against Blizzard's intention for his character arc.
    This is the main point that some smart individuals have a so hard time to understand; Garrosh manipulated, twisted and corrupted by the "real big bad" behind everything, plotting on Garrosh's back, is excatly the crap twist that would throw shit to the character, because would prove that all his development and his blatant will and desire to use the Sha for his own ends was nothing but a pathetic whim of a crybaby. And would be a disgusting development for the supposed final villain of the expansion.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-06-18 at 03:35 PM.

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