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  1. #1

    lei shen 10 man heroic

    So, after one of night only we manage to get Dark Animus and we will start Lei Shen on our next raid.
    From the hunters that already killed him is there any pointers that i could use for this fight? I thinking of going BM with the standard DB and GT.
    Will appreciate any help I could get.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    No personal experience, but people have said BM with GT and Fervor is the best due to addinational Multi-shots for AoEing in P2.

    For the Heroic ability, Helm of Command, I would probably go for Posthaste, unless you have a few priests in your raid that can possibly do PW:Shield during it.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    No personal experience, but people have said BM with GT and Fervor is the best due to addinational Multi-shots for AoEing in P2.

    For the Heroic ability, Helm of Command, I would probably go for Posthaste, unless you have a few priests in your raid that can possibly do PW:Shield during it.
    Going post haste reduces the amount of deterrence you can get, wich is crucial for the fight -- atleast for a 25m stand point.

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire Caribald's Avatar
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    I wouldn't recommend posthaste, you should do fine with good positioning and Disengage. Of course, I've been used to having Rocket Jump (goblin) and Nitro Boosts (engineering) as backups, but honestly it's just important to learn to stand close to the middle of the platform before Helm of Command. Personally I played surv but I never really bothered with BM this tier, and BM aoe is possibly better now in bursts I guess. Sucks they removed Binding Shot but if you only spawn 3 Ball Lightnings each time it should be easy enough without.
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  5. #5
    I only have 25 man experience so I'm not 100% sure what does and doesn't apply, but here goes.

    For as far as I'm aware you are able to choose or manipulate who is getting Helm of Command so there isn't really a need to change your build for that. If your raid wants you to take all the Helms (provided what I said actually applies) you should be set with Aspect of the Cheetah and a Warlock portal. You can't disengage the Helm of Command in any way so Posthaste isn't going to matter much. I've heard that you don't get dazed from the damage with it active but I never really had the chance to try this myself.

    You also want to minimize as much raid damage as possible by solo-soaking the static shocks. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimera will help you much more throughout the fight. The lower Disengage cooldown is nice but I personally never really made full use of it. You might do if you are designated to soak the bouncing bolts on different platforms (again a 10 man thing I've heard from someone else, don't know exactly how it works). Use the Disengage glyph as well and remove Glyph of Deterrence, you deflect everything in the fight with Deterrence anyway so the damage reduction is pointless.

    I don't see a reason to use a non-Beast Mastery spec but the focus regen talent is something you need to mess with yourself. In 25 man, the balls die in seconds so saving a Fervor for an extra Multi-shot is pointless. I probably do recommend Fervor for the reason that your Dire Beast will miss attacks when Lei-Shen is moving between platforms. I've stuck with Dire Beast so far, and I've regretted my decision every time.

    As always stick with Glaive Toss unless you need more ball lightning damage assuming they are spread out and unable to be gripped in. If you do it right, you can have a Bestial Wrath for most of them as well up till the final phase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caribald View Post
    but if you only spawn 3 Ball Lightnings each time
    Wait, are there really only 3 ball lightning on 10 man?
    Why would you even bother to AoE if you can just have 3 raid members single target burst one down each before they even do anything?
    Last edited by Bovan; 2013-06-18 at 08:57 AM.

  6. #6
    SV with DB, Glaive, Blink works for me.

    Absolutely do not use Posthaste, you need the 1m deterrence.
    Use Pathfinding and Cheetah when you get the helm unless you have rocket boots.
    You want to glyph your disengage so that you can travel farther.

    Take Intimidation for the lightning adds, they hit like Tyson in the second transition.
    Worth keeping an eye on any big adds that may spawn on quadrants that have 2 people in them (assuming you are on a DPS only quadrant). Distracting Shot them over so your DPS can reach them.


  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    I only have 25 man experience so I'm not 100% sure what does and doesn't apply, but here goes.

    For as far as I'm aware you are able to choose or manipulate who is getting Helm of Command so there isn't really a need to change your build for that. If your raid wants you to take all the Helms (provided what I said actually applies) you should be set with Aspect of the Cheetah and a Warlock portal. You can't disengage the Helm of Command in any way so Posthaste isn't going to matter much. I've heard that you don't get dazed from the damage with it active but I never really had the chance to try this myself.

    You also want to minimize as much raid damage as possible by solo-soaking the static shocks. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimera will help you much more throughout the fight. The lower Disengage cooldown is nice but I personally never really made full use of it. You might do if you are designated to soak the bouncing bolts on different platforms (again a 10 man thing I've heard from someone else, don't know exactly how it works). Use the Disengage glyph as well and remove Glyph of Deterrence, you deflect everything in the fight with Deterrence anyway so the damage reduction is pointless.

    I don't see a reason to use a non-Beast Mastery spec but the focus regen talent is something you need to mess with yourself. In 25 man, the balls die in seconds so saving a Fervor for an extra Multi-shot is pointless. I probably do recommend Fervor for the reason that your Dire Beast will miss attacks when Lei-Shen is moving between platforms. I've stuck with Dire Beast so far, and I've regretted my decision every time.

    As always stick with Glaive Toss unless you need more ball lightning damage assuming they are spread out and unable to be gripped in. If you do it right, you can have a Bestial Wrath for most of them as well up till the final phase.



    Wait, are there really only 3 ball lightning on 10 man?
    Why would you even bother to AoE if you can just have 3 raid members single target burst one down each before they even do anything?
    there are 3 if you do it correctly, as in only 3 ranged stand out, only 3 ranged get it. I'm sure you could do something of the same in 25 man to cut down on ball lightnings, not sure how many even spawn there though.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Redtusk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loadstar View Post
    Going post haste reduces the amount of deterrence you can get, wich is crucial for the fight -- atleast for a 25m stand point.
    Even more so in a 10 man.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Caribald's Avatar
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    Disengage does help vs Helm of Command, not sure what you're talking about. Can you really decide who gets Helm of Command? I never knew that, how does that work? I don't know about Cheetah dazing (or putting aspects on 4 sec cd with minor glyph) either, but you'll probably want to use Iron Hawk for the damage reduction. If you have to use Cheetah you were positioned badly when Helm of Command was cast. Either way, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimera is definitely the talent to pick for Lei Shen.

    Does Deterrence actually deflect damage from Thunderstruck? I used Glyph of Deterrence in case of low health the last few %, and I'm not really sure what to use in place of it (5% disengage heal?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Wait, are there really only 3 ball lightning on 10 man?
    Why would you even bother to AoE if you can just have 3 raid members single target burst one down each before they even do anything?
    3/10 = 0.3
    7/25 = 0.28

    only?

    And because AOEing 4 targets is usually better than everyone single targeting (target swapping being bad due to ramp up etc.).
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by hareu View Post
    there are 3 if you do it correctly, as in only 3 ranged stand out, only 3 ranged get it. I'm sure you could do something of the same in 25 man to cut down on ball lightnings, not sure how many even spawn there though.
    7 or 8 minimum, but I'm assuming they have more health compared to 10 man. And yes, assuming is always a bad thing to do.
    I'm just thinking out loud here.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    7 or 8 minimum, but I'm assuming they have more health compared to 10 man. And yes, assuming is always a bad thing to do.
    I'm just thinking out loud here.
    mm, I doubt they have more health, just because having 8 adds instead of 3 for 10 to 25 man sounds about an equal conversion.

    3/10 = 0.3
    7/25 = 0.28

    only?

    And because AOEing 4 targets is usually better than everyone single targeting (target swapping being bad due to ramp up etc.).
    what he said.




    edit- they actually do have more health, 3mil more health each.
    Last edited by hareu; 2013-06-18 at 09:14 AM.

  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire Caribald's Avatar
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    They do have more health but you have more people damaging all of them (higher damage potential per player on 25).
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  13. #13
    Yea sorry guys, nothing against 10 man or anything. It just surprised me how few ball lightning there are. Don't worry I fully understand that 10 and 25 man are completely different, and I'm not saying one is better or worse or anything like that. It just caught me by surprise.
    Last edited by Bovan; 2013-06-18 at 09:25 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Yea sorry guys, nothing against 10 man or anything. It just surprised me how few ball lightning there are. Don't worry I fully understand that 10 and 25 man are completely different, and I'm not saying one is better or worse or anything like that. It just caught me by surprise.
    If you have 3 people standing at range in 10m you get only 3 balls.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Caribald View Post
    Does Deterrence actually deflect damage from Thunderstruck? I used Glyph of Deterrence in case of low health the last few %, and I'm not really sure what to use in place of it (5% disengage heal?)
    Yes.. not that you ever need to, since we're 100% mobile dps.. But if for some ungodly reason you don't move with the group (again dunnu why one wouldn't) then yea you can just pop deterrence and deflect it entirely..

    For glyphs i'd just use animal bond, disengage and liberation..

    Fervor is terrible though.. especially in a 10m.. the transition from platform to platform shouldn't take long in the first place.. as long as you use a monk to provoke and/or lifegrip etc.. You can simply delay DB by a few seconds if it happens to line up with transitions and still outdps fervor by miles.. The extra multi's aren't needed since beast cleave is a 4 sec duration.. Even on 25m you only need max 2 multi shots.. and that's the soft enrage on the balls neways (8 secs).. so fervor is useless..

  16. #16
    Cheers for all the comments, will give everything you said a shot

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Saoron View Post
    Yes.. not that you ever need to, since we're 100% mobile dps.. But if for some ungodly reason you don't move with the group (again dunnu why one wouldn't) then yea you can just pop deterrence and deflect it entirely..

    For glyphs i'd just use animal bond, disengage and liberation..

    Fervor is terrible though.. especially in a 10m.. the transition from platform to platform shouldn't take long in the first place.. as long as you use a monk to provoke and/or lifegrip etc.. You can simply delay DB by a few seconds if it happens to line up with transitions and still outdps fervor by miles.. The extra multi's aren't needed since beast cleave is a 4 sec duration.. Even on 25m you only need max 2 multi shots.. and that's the soft enrage on the balls neways (8 secs).. so fervor is useless..
    Yes fervor is useless...please shut up. A) You obviously do not know how Beast Cleave works B) Delaying Dire Beast makes it even more worse on the fight.

    Go with fervor, time it with balls spawning, pre-cast multi-shot so the adds land into the cleave , Fervor+Multi - enjoy raping adds. Also 1 min. deterrence is a must on Lei-Shen.

  18. #18
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    Few tips of mine for the lei shen 10m hc.
    1 minute detterence is a must.
    glyph of detterence is very useful if you are on platform that someone cannot solo soak but more or less it's not mandatory.
    glyph of disengage - very useful especially with helm and p3.
    As for the spec i have tried both and bm is definitelly ahead of sv (Even od ball of lightning because the live like 10s and dots dont even have time to fully roll on them) and you might time BW on them very well. They have like 50s timer or so, so its not that easy, but doable
    Sv is only good for padding metters when someone messes up (usually on purpose) with the chains in p1/p2. But ele shamans are just better for this job
    Fervor vs DB -> DB form me, there is only 1 time where actually DB is timed with tank moving boss with our tactics and i just dont like fervor with BM.
    If you are playing right with your focus and will have around 80 before adds then you will be able to just MS,Barrage,CS,MS,KC,CS,MS with 100% Beast cleave uptime.
    Barrage - GT -> it all depends of your raid composition, and how fast the adds dies, and dps needed on the boss. For me barrage was a minimal dps loss on single target, but on adds it just rocks. I have tested both, but barrage was definitelly better for my raid and my overall dps, with almost no loss on single target dps.
    Intimidation is very useful on diffusion chains coz they hit hard as truck as someone mentioned, keeping them stuned and slowed is a good thing.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Hucio View Post
    Few tips of mine for the lei shen 10m hc.
    1 minute detterence is a must.
    glyph of detterence is very useful if you are on platform that someone cannot solo soak but more or less it's not mandatory.
    glyph of disengage - very useful especially with helm and p3.
    As for the spec i have tried both and bm is definitelly ahead of sv (Even od ball of lightning because the live like 10s and dots dont even have time to fully roll on them) and you might time BW on them very well. They have like 50s timer or so, so its not that easy, but doable
    Sv is only good for padding metters when someone messes up (usually on purpose) with the chains in p1/p2. But ele shamans are just better for this job
    Fervor vs DB -> DB form me, there is only 1 time where actually DB is timed with tank moving boss with our tactics and i just dont like fervor with BM.
    If you are playing right with your focus and will have around 80 before adds then you will be able to just MS,Barrage,CS,MS,KC,CS,MS with 100% Beast cleave uptime.
    Barrage - GT -> it all depends of your raid composition, and how fast the adds dies, and dps needed on the boss. For me barrage was a minimal dps loss on single target, but on adds it just rocks. I have tested both, but barrage was definitelly better for my raid and my overall dps, with almost no loss on single target dps.
    Intimidation is very useful on diffusion chains coz they hit hard as truck as someone mentioned, keeping them stuned and slowed is a good thing.
    It doesnt matter how high your focus is, the main damage comes from Beast Cleave and pet having high enough focus for Wild Hunt to kick in. This is the main point of using Fervor.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kibu View Post
    It doesnt matter how high your focus is, the main damage comes from Beast Cleave and pet having high enough focus for Wild Hunt to kick in. This is the main point of using Fervor.
    ppl dont get it, fervor as bm isnt about your focus is about you pet focus, you have no clue how much damage your pet does when you have fervor.

    basic attacks are 2nd for me when using DB
    basic attacks are 1st for me when using fervor.

    the damage loss on DB is ... the focus gain for you AND your pet is higher while using fervor even when you get to waste the opener 1 time, fervor is off gcd so you gota count either an extra KC not being pushed or DB delayed or an arcane shot, u get 2 gcd every min, on a 10 min fight thats 20 extra arcane shots you can weave, not to mention that fervor is good even when you have nothing to fight because u can dump all your focus on adds an as soon as the boss come up every transition you will have full focus and all your cds ready to go on him while direbeast will give you some damage.

    we started this week on him and i did a whole night with DB, post haste (changed that mid raid because i didnt really need to go further since our priest is using spirit Shell on thunterstruck and going 5 yard further does nothing since i just get full absorbs with and without posthaste) and glaive toss, i really dislike the 2-3 sec channel of barrage as bm (it just delay too much my opener and dont allow me to precast that cobra shot before poping BW) and i dont think i need it for just 3 adds. today since we staying on him im going to give fervor a try and then compare at the end of the day the logs.

    the only thing i hate about BM in this fight is also adds, i have macro specials into arcane shot and KC and for this fight if you leave your pet on him you gota take every macro on KC so the pet dosnt switch. either that or just dont dps adds wich i will also ask because as bm the pet is full retard after the blink strikes change. but the brust, CDs as bm and now brust cleave is way too good to let it pass.

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