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  1. #1

    10H Council, appreciate tips before attempt.

    Hey guys! We are about to attempt 10H Council tomorrow. As usual I'm trying to gather some infomation before attempt.

    So apparently without Fatboss, things are harder to learn From the videos I found, all of them hero at start and burn Sul before he empowered. I take it as the usual strat to do? If we are supposed to do that, like how much dps we should be putting on Sul the whole time? Our melee group is like 2 blood dk, 1 ret pally and 1 MW monk, doesn't look very hard as I see it.

    Another thing is I'm guessing we have 2 groups rotate for frost bite? I saw in one video, the person who get frostbite actually stack to melee group, I'm not sure if that would make it easier or worse?

    And I appreciate if there is any detail tips for classes or strat. Our group is:

    Tanks: dk x 2 (........)
    Healer: monk, druid, shaman
    Dps: SV hunter, aff lock, destr lock, ret pally, boomkin

    Thank you very much!

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by jasonleekungfu View Post
    Hey guys! We are about to attempt 10H Council tomorrow. As usual I'm trying to gather some infomation before attempt.

    So apparently without Fatboss, things are harder to learn From the videos I found, all of them hero at start and burn Sul before he empowered. I take it as the usual strat to do? If we are supposed to do that, like how much dps we should be putting on Sul the whole time? Our melee group is like 2 blood dk, 1 ret pally and 1 MW monk, doesn't look very hard as I see it.

    Another thing is I'm guessing we have 2 groups rotate for frost bite? I saw in one video, the person who get frostbite actually stack to melee group, I'm not sure if that would make it easier or worse?

    And I appreciate if there is any detail tips for classes or strat. Our group is:

    Tanks: dk x 2 (........)
    Healer: monk, druid, shaman
    Dps: SV hunter, aff lock, destr lock, ret pally, boomkin

    Thank you very much!
    Burn Sul at start, multi-dot all targets throughout the fight, make sure you are pushing each boss before they empower (so cleave onto Frost-King if its a dps gain, and make sure ranged are hitting both). Have an interrupt rotation for Sul so that he doesn't rape people.

    Frostbite is the hardest mechanic in the fight, unfortunately your comp has no immunities (except the ret paladin which wont get it anyways), this means you'll get 2-3 frostbites and need to deal with at least 1-2 of them.

    The best way to deal w/ frostbite is to just heal bomb him and use cds on him to keep him up, shaman can spirit link him in melee w/ out him stacking, druid can iron bark, etc. They should also be using all of their personals to survive and stacking into melee for last 7 seconds. This is the hardest mechanic to deal w/ and getting past it means you aren't too far off from a kill.

    The other hard part is splitting dmg properly, make sure you are stunning and killing the loa spirits (Destro lock chaos bolts + shadow burn are great, aff lock can put up 70% slow and 2 shadowfury stuns = win).

    Make sure to interrupt the priestess when she empowers and bring her into the group so you can cleave off her to kill her. When Kazra empowers its better to kill Sul before switching to Kazra if he isnt dead yet, then stacking on Frost King (loosely) inside a healing rain and burning kazra that way.

    Obviously keep priestess away from frost king / kazra while shes unempowered, dont let adds heal its brutal.

    Make sure healers know to really watch tanks during frost kings assault.

    The debuff is passed with a extra action button, so when a dps gets it they should pass it to the tanks generally, after tanks send it to one of the warlocks w/ your comp. If you get a rogue at some point send it to rogue and he keeps feint up full time once he has it.

    If you have high dps, and people put the dmg where it is needed then this boss isn't super hard; healers need to learn to deal w/ frostbites and it can be done.

  3. #3
    Organizing groups for frostbite just complicates the fight, its much easier to just spam heal the person who gets it, with them popping any personal CDs they have chained with externals.

    You will only get 2 empowered frostbites before empowerment switches over, so use CDs willingly, by the time frost king gets re-empowered, he'll be pretty much dead if your DPS is decent.

    Just cleave everything as much as you can, the faster Sul and Frost king the better, after their dead its pretty much a free win. Just do super slow DPS on the last 2 if you need, berserk is super long, just dont kill yourself on Khaz reflect and make sure you drop them the necessary 25% before Dark Power reaches 100.
    Last edited by Durahal; 2013-06-11 at 04:26 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Durahal View Post
    You will only get 3 empowered frostbites before empowerment switches over, so use CDs willingly, by the time frost king gets re-empowered, he'll be pretty much dead if your DPS is decent.
    Three!? We only get one before Malakk's first empower transfers, and we smokebomb it to nullify it completely.... I doubt very highly that groups progressing on this fight can handle 3. Unfortunately the OP doesn't have the luxury of smoke bomb, but I would advise aiming to not get more than 1.

    Organizing groups really isn't that hard, but doing it any other way is better if you can do it consistently and reliably.

    Should you need groups (remember that the ideal Frostbite soaking # is 3 total people, including the debuffed player), just assign 3 groups of 3 with each group having a designated person to step out if the frostbite that goes out is not part of their group. So for example:

    G1: P1, P2, P3(*)
    G2: P4, P5, P6(*)
    G3: P7, P8, P9(*)

    Frostbite goes out, P4 gets it. P3 and P9 step out of their groups for the duration of the frostbite. P4 waits 4-6 seconds, moves to G1 (soaking with P1/P2), another 4-6 seconds, moves to G3 (soaking with P7/P8), then back to their original group and rinse repeat until it goes away.

    Reduces the damage from 300k per second to 180k per second, split amongst 3 people. It's far easier to heal. It looks slightly complicated but it really isn't. You could even do it without having people "step out" and it would still reduce the total damage (300k to 240k). People have done it just spam healing the person standing alone, people have done groups. Whatever works for you.

  5. #5
    Thank you for reply. About frostbite there are 2 things I was wondering. First can pally BoP it off? Second does it split among ppl? I mean is it possible that we just have a group stand with them split damage, and ignoring body heat debuff?

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Winkle's Avatar
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    You cannot BoP it off.

    The frostbite will only be shared between 3 people maximum, i.e. the target and 2 others, when they have soaked for 8 seconds they receive body heat and will take the full damage (i.e. die)

    Solo soaking the debuff and rotating CD's is the easier solution to manage, however you'll probably find you initially lose a lot of people until you get a feel for the damage.

    On our attempts we had 2 healers full time spamming the person plus constant coverage from CDs usually something like:
    0- 6 seconds personal CD
    6 -18 sec - Hand of Sac 1
    18- 30 sec - Hand of Sac 2

    plus a few other random ones thrown in for good measure like healing stream totems, safe guard, sacred shield etc.

    We do have the luxury of a rogue which means we 100% immuned the 1st one.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Winkle View Post
    The frostbite will only be shared between 3 people maximum, i.e. the target and 2 others,
    Sort of true, but misleading. That could make people think that going over 3 people is a death sentence for the 4th person (like they'd take full damage or something, which isn't true), or that the 4th person will be ignored (also not true). Mechanics summed up below:

    So for Frostbite, it's 60,000 AoE DPS per stack with 5 stacks on the affected player, each nearby player with body heat reduces stacks by 2 (can't drop below 1). So:

    1 Player: 300k DPS per person / 300k DPS total
    2 Players: 180k DPS per person / 360k DPS total
    3 Players: 60k DPS per person / 180k DPS total
    4 Players: 60k DPS per person / 240k DPS total
    5 Players: 60k DPS per person / 300k DPS total

    Body heat lasts 8 seconds (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=137084 ) and then is "recharged" over another 8 seconds (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=137085 ).

    Obviously, 3 people is ideal, but having a 4th around isn't the end of the world (as in my strategy above, but without the "step out" person).

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiralphoenix View Post
    Three!? We only get one before Malakk's first empower transfers, and we smokebomb it to nullify it completely.... I doubt very highly that groups progressing on this fight can handle 3. Unfortunately the OP doesn't have the luxury of smoke bomb, but I would advise aiming to not get more than 1.
    Whoops I meant 2, sorry (Not even possible to get 3 before dark power reaches 100). The strat that we use invovles doing bare minimum DPS to Frostking at the start and cleaving everything else down - meaning Sul is dead after the empowerment swaps for the first time, while the other two are missing a fair amount themselves.

  9. #9
    Would appreciate a response from anyone who has done this fight in the current reset with a rogue in group - did you find that the smoke bomb on Frost King was no longer stopping the frostbite from going out (i.e. has it been stealth fixed)?

  10. #10
    Brewmaster Kiry's Avatar
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    We did heroic yesterday, smoke bomb still works. Our rogue does the 1st one of each set.

    We purposely let 2 frostbites go out. This lets more dps time on Sul. Once Priestess gets empowered, there's a lot of dps focus on her and her adds. We have one melee, so the ranged is on the empowered bosses.

    suggest looking up the list of classes that can "cheese" the Frostbite mechanic. I know Pallys can do something our holy pally does. The key is, the immunity mechanic MUST be done BEFORE the frostbite actually hits the person. That moment between the blue arrow and the actual hit. Ex: Mages can Ice block.
    Doing this makes the fight much easier for your healers.

    We also watch the soul shard stacks. i.e. our healers get it during Kazzak empower. This allows the dps go without having to manage both damage mechanics.
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  11. #11
    you can indeed bop/hop the debuff, you just have to pre cast it when the blue arrow is on a player bop him and he wont even get the debuff, if you bop him after its to late and the bop wont remove the debuff.

    we have 3 paladins and a mage so we ignore the first debuff with pro boping priest, hunter, shaman and the 2 holy paladins bobbel if thay see the blue arrow, the mage iceblocks if he ses the blue arrow, for 2nd debuff we stack in smokebomb

  12. #12
    If you have a rogue, that takes care of 2 of 3 of the frostbites. Just make sure to drop the smoke bomb ON malakk. Paladins can pre-clemency BoP two casters, and bubble themselves to prevent the debuff. Mages have ice-block, druids have ice block or cloak from symbiosis. If your healers are stressed, you can just let the 3rd one die assuming its not immuned, you really don't need the battle-rez anywhere else. Once malakk is dead, the dps check falls greatly, you can push through with 1 or 2 dps dead.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by NesQuek View Post
    If you have a rogue, that takes care of 2 of 3 of the frostbites. Just make sure to drop the smoke bomb ON malakk. Paladins can pre-clemency BoP two casters, and bubble themselves to prevent the debuff. Mages have ice-block, druids have ice block or cloak from symbiosis. If your healers are stressed, you can just let the 3rd one die assuming its not immuned, you really don't need the battle-rez anywhere else. Once malakk is dead, the dps check falls greatly, you can push through with 1 or 2 dps dead.
    Do you read posts before replying. He doesnt have a rogue or a mage, so the symb note is completely irrelevant.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Devboy's Avatar
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    Hoping to possibly get some advice from everyone.

    We've spent roughly 40 wipes on this, and we've barely got to the point where we get Sul down consistently.

    Raid comp

    Prot pala
    Prot War

    Hunter
    Ele Sham
    Fire mage
    DK
    feral druid (optional)
    Aff warlock

    Resto Sham
    Resto Druid
    Holy pala.


    Here are logs from last night, as well as my recorded stream, you can see how we are trying to deal with the frost bite. I really want to know if we can do it better at all, as it seems to be causing us issues.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/nljlmrbhqoiua6p9/

    http://www.twitch.tv/devboy_/b/416466689 - skip the first 30-45 mins as I was testing the stream and doing Archaeology which would be boring to watch :P.

    I'd really like to know if we would be able to do the solo soak of frostbite with spam heals and CD's. Some of my raid believe that you HAVE to have either a disc priest, or MW monk to even attempt that.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Devboy View Post
    I'd really like to know if we would be able to do the solo soak of frostbite with spam heals and CD's. Some of my raid believe that you HAVE to have either a disc priest, or MW monk to even attempt that.
    Our guild killed this last night. We don't have a lot of similarities with our raid comp but we did use the Frostbite method used in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W0TkHJZ78M This Frostbite strategy is a mixture of the group soak and the solo soak strat which ultimately makes movement less of a problem and healing a bit easier. It's good if your guild is sloppy about doing a group rotation but also doesn't want the stress of healing the person through the entire duration of the 5stack Frostbite. I'm a Disc priest and though I can heal through a solo soak it works better for us to have me DPSing Sul and only shielding/healing the Frostbite target as needed.

    Basically what you do is to have two people stack with the Frostbite target initially until their body heat expires and then before they get chilled to the bonehave them spread (if a healer was the frostbite target, the soakers moved away; if it was a DPS the DPS just moved away from the soakers). From there, you chain cds on them to survive the remaining duration of the Frostbite. There are a couple ways to do this with your comp: Ironbark, Hand of Sac (x2), and Safeguard. We chain hand of sacrifice in our raid and usually never get more than one Frostbite during the first empower thanks to immunities.

    Edit: Make sure your Mage, Holy Pally, and Resto Druid all know how to immune Frostbite (druid gets ice block via symbiosis). When they get the blue arrow above their heads they need to immune immediately.
    Last edited by meddle; 2013-06-14 at 09:39 AM.
    Meddle of <Surprise Cuttlefish> Kilrogg-US

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire Winkle's Avatar
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    You can definitely do the frostbite solo soak without a disc or mw. You just have to bomb heals into the target and use CDs.

    You have 2 paladins so that means that with clemency you can roll 24 seconds of hand of sac. The prot war can use vigilance or safeguard to provide even further dmg reduction. Prot paladin can also drop sacred shield on the FB target, with large amounts of vengeance the shield is very nice. Shaman can drop HS totem. Couple with each players individual cds and the healers throughput cds the targets should survive.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jasonleekungfu View Post
    Thank you for reply. About frostbite there are 2 things I was wondering. First can pally BoP it off? Second does it split among ppl? I mean is it possible that we just have a group stand with them split damage, and ignoring body heat debuff?
    A paladin can bubble it yes, but he needs to do it as soon as the arrow appears over his head. Then again, melee never get it and your paladin is ret isn't he?

    No point in stacking, heal through it and use defensive cooldowns. I got a tip from the monk forum and spamming healing sphere is pretty good for that.

    If it helps, here are our logs and video of our kill last night, we had experience from 25 man so it went fast, I was the monk healer.

    Our boomkin got the 2 frostbites, usually that's bad, but he survived both, so I guess we found a right way to do it.
    Last edited by Spotnick; 2013-06-14 at 08:51 PM.
    Karuzo, mistweaver monk | Macphisto, discipline priest

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Miscam View Post
    Do you read posts before replying. He doesnt have a rogue or a mage, so the symb note is completely irrelevant.
    See... that's the cool thing about the internets!! Not everybody coming into this thread for information on the fight is the OP. Any and all relevant information to the fight, mechanics, and what different classes can do to mitigate them is welcome in any "asking for help" thread.

  19. #19
    At first we tried to do the solo soak frostbite. After about 50 attempts we moved to a new group based soaking strat which worked much much better for us. We had 3 groups set up close to each other and the person with frostbite simply ran from one group to the other as each group was about to get chilled to the bone. This strat had much less errors than the solo soak strat for us but you will most likely just have to experiment. Good luck.

  20. #20
    Dealing with Frostbite with your comp :

    You have 6 ppl who can get it :

    Resto druid / Resto sham / Lock / Lock / Hunter / Boomkin. Unless i'm mistaken, monk healer is considered melee and won't get it.

    Boomkin can use AMS with a DK-symbiosis (i'm not 100% sure it works but i don't see why it wouldn't) before the debuff is applied.

    Have your ret paladin spec for double BoP. If he is really good, he can BoP the first two frostbite (use a mouseover macro). He needs to use BoP before the debuff is applied (you have ~1sec with a bleu arrow above your head when you are going to get the debuff). If he isn't able to do so, just heal the first debuff (not difficult during bloodlust, especially with 3 healers) then have your ret paladin use 2 preventive BoP 5 sec before the second frostbite on your hunter + resto shaman which are probably the hardest to heal.

    For the third frostbite, if it's not an immunity (sadly you have only your moonkin or shaman with ankh) just let him die and combat rez him.

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