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  1. #1

    a shadow priest ethically dilemma

    Hello all fellow shadow priest, i ran into a dilemme last night, which i never really gave much thought before it happens, since i never really counted on it to happen.

    Long story short, in the last 1½ year we been really unlucky with our good caster trinkets drop. Me and our warlock both have been wanting the lei shen trinket since the release of the patch, we use a dkp system and i have alywas tried to be on top on the dkp liste. 2 weeks ago the UVLS (unerring vission of lei shen) dropped, and i was a happy man and won the 522 version. 2 weeks later, the thunderforge version drops, and i still have most dkp - he have the LFR version. Who should have it you think ? the chance of it to drop is like what - 1% since we run a 10m guild.

    Remember, that its prolly the BiS trinket for both of us for the entiry expansion, since our guild dont really have the power to ever kill him on heroic i belive. Is im the biggest selfish twat on world for taking it myself - since in my rights i got most dkp, and can take it - or should i always pass it for our warlock, since he only had the LFR version before that ?

    I can still trade it to him, since i made it sure i havent been able to log on my priest after i got the thunderforge version.


    PS: Sorry for bad english, im not the best in gramma, english is my 2nd langauge ^^

  2. #2
    Should have let him get it. Be a nice person. You would like if he did the same thing for you.

  3. #3
    It's not really an ethical decision. The whole point of a DKP system is to have a non-personal method of deciding where loot goes, so that ethics aren't an important part of it. You had the most DKP, therefore your system has declared you the most worthy of having it, therefore there is nothing unethical about taking it.

    That being said, /should/ you take it? That depends. Why do you want your BIS anyhow? For me, loot exists to help me kill harder opponents that I wouldn't be able to challenge without it. If you think similarly, then giving the trinket to the warlock might be a greater help to you killing the next boss you fight, which may drop a heroic thunderforged item (even if not specifically the UVLS) that is a greater boost to you. It's all about what your personal goals are and what helps you achieve them.

    Basically, this isn't so much an ethics question as it is a "What actually helps you the most" question.

  4. #4
    Give it to your friend. New patch soon so who cares about ToT items in a few months
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  5. #5
    u have regular.. TF isnt much better.. granted every bit of int helps, but its a bigger upgrade to him then u. so imo just let him have it and save your vp for something else. arent locks pallys and priests on the same tier? maybe you'll get a tier piece he doesnt want instead or something.

  6. #6
    Tbh 2 options.

    1. You keep it, but promise that you will let him get whatever next item he wants when it's something both you guys need and you're over him on dkp (thunderforged HC weapon is a good deal for example) Maybe thunderforged / normal UVLC will loot next week and he'll get it + you promise for the next great item. Win / win.
    2. You give him, maybe you'll get a HC trinket next week. Maybe UVLS thunderforge will still loot next week. You'll still be first on DKP and be absle to pull the next BIG item that drops.

    Overall now that I come to think about it, I'd say give him, you'll loot the thunderforge weap and be bad ass + you'll look like a nice person - which you probably are or you wouldn't be bothered at all.

    + you know, it'll probly help your raid overall i guess.

  7. #7
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Personally, no matter how much it hurts, if it helps the raid more for the other person to have it, they should have it. And that's how I would want it to be. There's a lot of chatter about the sacrifices that everyone makes for the raid in terms of doing things they'd rather not do. This is part of it too. My two cents.
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  8. #8
    It's fine either way really. DKP exists in a way that one person can get multiple items in a row if they save their DKP, it's a reason why fewer guilds use it. You had the DKP to get it, and so you did, I see nothing really wrong with that.

    As far as if it was the right thing to do... It's just items in a game. It's a bigger upgrade for him, but not by that much either. You aren't going to kill new bosses simply because your Warlock is doing 1k more DPS with the better trinket, it's not game changing by any means, so I doubt if it has much effect in the long run. I probably wouldn't have taken it personally, but I usually pass on gear anyway for other people, but either way I'd say it's not that big of a deal, keeping it is fine but if you wanna be a nice guy giving it to him is fine too.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by grdn View Post
    Give it to your friend. New patch soon so who cares about ToT items in a few months
    You didnt read my thread. Its BIS for the entiry expansions (is what all the major theorycrafters are saying atleast) so its not just this patch, also for 5.4-5.5.

    Its not just the spellpower that matters, the trinket works that the higher item lvl it is the more it proc, the more it proc the more damage.

    I guess my "ethical" problem is this goes against my deepest principles...since i alwsys aim to give people items to who gets the biggest upgrade, but im also a person that aim to get my bis list, In my guild raiding limits.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Personally, no matter how much it hurts, if it helps the raid more for the other person to have it, they should have it.
    The most successful loot systems are the ones used by intelligent raiders whose goal is the success of the guild. DKP, EP/GP, Loot Council, whatever common sense / kind passing helps the raid be better geared overall and as a result more successful.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Flashforcash View Post
    Its BIS
    There's your answer. don't feel bad dude.

  12. #12
    528 ilevel = 100.00% proc multiplier
    522 ilevel = 94.56% proc multiplier
    502 ilevel = 78.49% proc multiplier

    LFR version really sucks (I keep it in my bags to taunt me), so let him have it.
    That being said, I hope the trading timer isn't consumed, otherwise this thread is pointless.

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Wasn't that defined by your Raid Leader?

    Once we knew about Thunderforged crap this tier we set up a simple rule: If you have the regular version you can take the TF one and only be charged the GP difference between them (we use EPGP), yet, you can only roll for it as a Minor Upgrade, hence, if someone with an inferior item rolls Mainspec you still lose the roll due to that priority. Be mindful that we only use this within the same "level" of item. As in, if you have the normal version and heroic drops you can roll Mainspec and not worry about it. If it THEN drops Heroic Thunderforged then your roll will be a Minor Upgrade one and lose to any other Mainspec roll, no matter how high your PR is.

    Maybe this rule isn't the best, maybe it isn't that fair but we had to come up with something that would be definitive and avoid loot drama and, so far, it's worked out pretty well for us (even though our Rogue is the only SoaB that seems to be able to get Heroic TF gear, for some reason.. He's at 542 ilvl already and 2nd best ilvl in the guild is at 534).


  14. #14
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashforcash View Post

    You didnt read my thread. Its BIS for the entiry expansions (is what all the major theorycrafters are saying atleast) so its not just this patch, also for 5.4-5.5.
    I don't know anyone saying it's going to remain BIS for the rest of the expansion: especcially the 522/528 versions. Part of the reason UVLS is so good right now is synergy with our set bonuses - which we won't have next tier. More importantly though, 522 UVLS right now isn't better than any 535 trinket other than Wushoolay's (which sucks for us). So don't be too excited to hold onto UVLS over your guildies - you'll be replacing those normal version UVLS's with normal version Orgrimmar trinkets in 5.4 (541 for normal next tier, before item upgrades).

    It's good, don't get me wrong - but as soon as we data-mined the set bonuses I posted about the potential synergy with DoT re-applications and our set bonuses, and they flipped out and broke it for 5.2->5.3 (sorry all!), so it kind of works after 5.3, but the same kind of broken-ness has existed for Demonology from 5.2->present (auto-crit Doom applications) and was never nerfed, so it's probably going to remain better for your lock longer than it is for you.

    It's still BiS for you, you have DKP, that gives you priority - but I'd pass it along: UVLS is clearly our BIS, but it's not unique or anything - you will definitely replace it.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-06-17 at 07:18 AM.
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  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure that you would have made a thread
    "I'm pissed because our guild lock it's a douche"
    if the roles was reversed in this situation....

    Sharing the upgrades with your guild will benefit the whole team,but you have to accept the fact that raiding is a team effort not a personal to be able to see that.
    You play for the team not for yourself and you are a douche if you all that you care for is your personal goals over the guild's ones.
    Also your GM is stupid since he's obviously doesn't care for the team either, since the introduction of TF items a simple rule applies to every guild who has a GM with common sense, TF upgrades is a priority for those who don't have the normal version since the upgrade will benefit the raid a lot more.
    Last edited by Keosen; 2013-06-17 at 07:35 AM.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Personally, you should decide AHEAD of time what your goal is.

    1.) To follow the rules to the letter, expecting nothing from anyone and giving nothing that isn't earned. This is the letter of the law. He who has the most DKP wins the loot.

    2.) The friendly thing. Bigger upgrade for someone else? Pass the piece. Friend really wants something because it's a much better item for him? Pass it. So on and so forth. You can expect them to do the same, but if they never do they are kind of twats.

    Personally I go for 2. Even when I've been higher on our SK roster I've past great pieces for the good of the group. It's why I like a more friendly group over a "these are the laws" group.

    In the end it is YOUR decision though, and I honestly don't think anyone should judge you for making that decision, although I DO think they can put exert peer pressure up until the decision is made. Nothing wrong with that.

    Honestly, one guild I raid with uses need/greed. We're all friends, and generally pass around pieces as we wish. The other uses SK, but we also pass/trade/bargain pieces as we wish, for the good of the raid. I'd really hate to raid where everyone was focused only on their progression.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2013-06-17 at 09:11 AM.

  17. #17
    Ask yourself what is more important guild progress or your own progress. when you have that answer the rest comes naturally.

  18. #18
    Im gonna Trade him the item when i get home from work, thx for your input

  19. #19
    Dreadlord veiledy0's Avatar
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    Keep it for yourself, fuck warlocks.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Flashforcash View Post
    Im gonna Trade him the item when i get home from work, thx for your input
    I think this is the right decision. We raid with guildmates to progress, and the bigger picture is the success of the team. My guild uses an EP/GP loot system, but everyone always checks who needs the item more and passes. The stronger we are as a team, the more chance of downing that next boss in our way.

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