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  1. #41
    One can always dream...

    The ideal would be that Tirion paid with his life the treason he committed to the Alliance. The Argent Crusade does not have any meaning: it must disappear completely; it must disintegrate in disarray ... What defilement!

    With the return of Turalyon, the Order of the Knights of the Silver Hand would rise again, having Turalyon as their leader: the iconic heroic paladin of the Alliance. So, they would be the counterparts of the Knights of the Ebon Blade, now affiliated with the Horde.

    Former members of the Argent Crusade, survivors of the Scarlet Crusade and the remaining humans of Lordaeron living in exile will come together to form a new faction, a diverse faction that will fight to regain the Kingdom of Lordaeron, they call themselves the Cerulean Aurora.

    It would be a friendly faction with the Alliance, albeit with more critical and radical conventions, being commanded by the Queen Calia herself, who has returned from her training and decided that it's time to come into view to claim what is hers by own right.

    The Queen Calia would be the perfect counterpoint to the villainy of the Dark Lady: they are made for each other, their destiny is united, and many will die for them. And who knows, the love between King Varian and Queen Calia may re-emerge as when they met, thus uniting the kingdoms of Stormwind and Lordaeron in a single dynasty...

    The light will guide the designs of the Knights of the Silver Hand… led by the High General Turalyon they will bring the honor, the revenge will come given by Queen Calia and her Cerulean Aurora, the hope will be brought by the last High Elves of the Alliance, led by Alleria Windrunner, and finally the strength and courage will be given by the oldest human kingdom of all: Stromgarde, commanded by the experienced Danath Trollbane

    And so the Alliance will regain all lost...
    Last edited by Northem; 2013-06-18 at 05:44 PM.


  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Derah View Post
    There are orcs, and taurens, and trolls, and forsakens, blood elves, and even goblins as part of the Argent Crusade. How well do you think the alliance would welcome THEM? The alliance is racist, they treat all orcs the same regardless if they are horde or not (Don't believe me? Check Admiral Rogers' speech on the Skyfire as they are about to attack the horde base, she says the horde attacked redridge, but those were blackrock orcs who were NOT part of the horde. But for your average alliance, orc is orc, and must die, so there)
    "The Allaince is Racist" Do you seriously not understand how racist that statement is? There are racists in the Alliance, no doubt. There are also many blatant racists in the Horde. Garrosh is overtly racists to his own forces, is this proof that all orcs are racists? The RAS betrayed us all at the Wrathgate, should we judge every forsaken by thier actions? No, of course not. Every race has its good and bad apples.

    Wouldn't it be nice if we all stopped judging large groups based of a few cherry-picked examples?

  3. #43
    If Blizzard ever has either the Argent Crusade or the Knights of the Ebon blade acknowledge Sylvanas's atrocities, which is unlikely considering one or both would then have to stomp her and the Foresaken back into the dirt they came from, I see the reverse happening: Darion and the majority of the rest of the Death Knights would be the first ones to want to exterminate what they would likely see as the second coming of the Scourge under Sylvanas's direction, and Tirion would, as usual, try to play the peacemaker for as long as possible.

    I still hold out hope that, again assuming that Blizzard properly addresses the Foresaken problem at all, Thassarian did his whole disappearing act in the Plaguelands specifically so he could run and warn Darion about what Sylvanas is up to.
    The most dangerous man in the world is neither good nor evil, for no one truly knows what that madman will do.

  4. #44
    Herald of the Titans Keile's Avatar
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    Darion would likely side against the Horde because of Sylvannas. She is too much like the Lich King, and the DK's have already fought hard to get out from that.
    There is a thin line between not knowing and not caring, and I like to think that I walk that line every day.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Derah View Post
    The main problem with this is that both the Argent Crusade and Knights of the Ebon Blade are a multi-racial organization.

    There are orcs, and taurens, and trolls, and forsakens, blood elves, and even goblins as part of the Argent Crusade. How well do you think the alliance would welcome THEM? The alliance is racist, they treat all orcs the same regardless if they are horde or not (Don't believe me? Check Admiral Rogers' speech on the Skyfire as they are about to attack the horde base, she says the horde attacked redridge, but those were blackrock orcs who were NOT part of the horde. But for your average alliance, orc is orc, and must die, so there)

    At the same time, the Knights of the Ebon Blade also have humans, and gnomes, and dwarves, and draenei, and night elves. How do you think THOSE will be treated in the horde? As it is the horde troops had to be directly ordered to NOT harrass the human members of the mercenary ship that took them to vashj'ir because after all this time there is still bad blood between orcs and humans. Not to mention that the whole "Might makes Right" mentality of horde society would make them harrass the gnome DKs.

    Yeah that aint happening.
    Every race in WoW is racist. You can draw a line between any two races in WoW, and for the most part, everyone hates each other. The only race that holds no bias is the Pandaren. You can't say that "humans are racist to orcs" without actually looking at the fact that orcs tend to hate any humans as well, and that it was a rare occurrence for them to work with Tirion at the Argent Tournament. Don't point fingers at only humans because of the fact that you like the Horde more.

    -Humans and orcs hate each other, no matter which faction or organization they're affiliated with.
    -Any elves pretty much hate any trolls and vice versa.
    -Forsaken hate everything living (especially the Worgen), and the Worgen hate the Forsaken for the events in Gilneas.
    -Tauren don't especially love Dwarves and Goblins for their disregard for nature and the earth.
    -Goblins and Gnomes tend to hate each other (any situation where they are in the same area, there is ALWAYS a competition and arguing).
    -Most of the Elves dislike each other as well - Blood Elves look down on the Highborne, High Elves, and Night Elves.
    -Night Elves feel the Blood Elves are just demonic in nature, and distrust the High Elves due to the fact that they're decendants of the same Highborne that burned Ashenvale to show that sorcery is superior to Druidism.
    -High Elves have always felt they were better than humans in many ways, and distrust the Night Elves for banishing their ancestors from Kalimdor.
    -Draenei hate Orcs, no matter the clan, for their behavior on Draenor long ago.

    The list can go on and on, including non-player races. It's a wonder any race can work with each other at all.
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
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    2.) If you have a source, there will be people who refuse to believe it
    3.) If you use logic, it will be largely ignored

  6. #46
    Not really, as both the Argent Crusade and the Knights of the Ebon Blade had reportedly shown their dislike towards Sylvanus' behavior during the events of the Cataclysm. I can't see Darion joining the Horde in any other way than being the leader of the Forsaken, should Sylvanus be deposed or killed outright.

    That and I like how the AC and KotEB are neutral as it is, even if aspects of the AC were Alliance-turned-neutral (Like usual). Their stories in Icecrown were well written and Darion, being formerly of the Argent Dawn anyway, showed the darker side of what they had to do in Icecrown. He was willing to walk into the darkness while Tirion wasn't willing to lose his moral high ground.

    As said, I'd not like it. As you can guess my character's namesake in Wrath was Thassarian and while he would be the leader of the Alliance Death Knights in this situation, it's not really a direction their stories should go. If anything it should be Darion calling on the KotEB to act as guardians in the Plaguelands against Sylvanus' expansionistic plans, alongside the AC. I just don't see someone saying "We don't like what you're doing... but we'll join you anyway", especially someone as driven as Darion.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  7. #47
    Epic! Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destinas View Post
    Every race in WoW is racist. You can draw a line between any two races in WoW, and for the most part, everyone hates each other. The only race that holds no bias is the Pandaren. You can't say that "humans are racist to orcs" without actually looking at the fact that orcs tend to hate any humans as well, and that it was a rare occurrence for them to work with Tirion at the Argent Tournament. Don't point fingers at only humans because of the fact that you like the Horde more.
    Yeah the "racial" matter is indeed global. Every faction is biased about the other, which is the main reason peace it's almost impossible to achieve between Alliance and Horde. Humans are biased about Orcs saying that are savage brutes that only love fight, slice and dice; Orcs are biased about Humans saying that they are all cowards and spineless; and somehow the same happen for every other race, judged by their stereotypical traits and little more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    One can always dream...
    The ideal would be that Tirion paid with his life the treason he committed to the Alliance. The Argent Crusade does not have any meaning: it must disappear completely; it must disintegrate in disarray ... What defilement!
    The Alliance of Lordaeron, in their ignorance, were committing an injustice, yeah, those who always talk of justice and goodness, and for ignorance exiled Tirion aswell. The old man was the only one that knew the truth and truly followed the ideals of his Order, while the rest just wanted their petty vengeance on an innocent individual, just because the orc was a "creature of darkness", while Eitrigg did very little against the Alliance in the first place. Saying that Tirion should "pay" with his life because he honestly followed the ideals of his order would like say that the Silver Hand's ideals were bullshit. WTF

  8. #48
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pebbleton View Post
    Because, as you can also see from WoW, their bodies turn into skeletons and disappear shortly after, and so they cannot be made undead in time.
    But that also happens to humans in WoW....

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    The Alliance of Lordaeron, in their ignorance, were committing an injustice, yeah, those who always talk of justice and goodness, and for ignorance exiled Tirion aswell. The old man was the only one that knew the truth and truly followed the ideals of his Order, while the rest just wanted their petty vengeance on an innocent individual, just because the orc was a "creature of darkness", while Eitrigg did very little against the Alliance in the first place. Saying that Tirion should "pay" with his life because he honestly followed the ideals of his order would like say that the Silver Hand's ideals were bullshit. WTF
    He collaborated with the enemy, and whatever the circumstances, this is high treason, and the punishment is death. The Queen Calia shall kill Tirion if necessary, so she will obtain the full support of the Alliance and her subjects of the Argent Crusade, the Scarlet Crusade and the other exiles of Lordaeron.

    The Queen Calia is eager for revenge, she ... needs blood ... Lordaeron will return to what it was thanks to her, the authentic Queen.


  10. #50
    Darion is neutral and he's standing in Icecrown Citadel. I don't want him to go Horde.

  11. #51
    Varian Wrynn must also die for treason, as a known associate of Tirion Fordring, right? Looking upon him with such admiration and trust that he accepted the undead into the Alliance, the Knights of the Ebon Blade?

    Northem must, must be trolling with stuff like this.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Varian Wrynn must also die for treason, as a known associate of Tirion Fordring, right? Looking upon him with such admiration and trust that he accepted the undead into the Alliance, the Knights of the Ebon Blade?
    Yes, I agree with you, lately Varian is showing too soft and ambiguous ... his negotiations with the demonic gay elves are proof of that.

    The Alliance will have to keep their eyes open, anyone can be a traitor ...


  13. #53
    Tirion joining the Alliance would be ridiculous.

    It's one thing for the Kirin Tor, an Alliance faction led by an Alliance leader, to stop being neutral.

    It's quite another for a faction renowned for it's neutrality and to stop infighting for the sake of peace, led by a human who sacrificed everything to save an honorable orc, to rejoin the Alliance.

    The Death Knights also would have no interest in joining the Horde. Why do you think this? Sylvanas? You mean the lady that mind-f***ed one of the death knights to be her mindless servant? Yeah, I'm sure that'd go well with the Ebon Blade.

  14. #54
    Pandaren Monk SourceOfInfection's Avatar
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    What is the obsession with claiming neutral factions?
    I've seen what's over the mountain, and you don't have anything to be dancing about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shemsu Hov View Post
    Well fuck if you all want some sources here's some websites. I haven't read them so fuck you if you blame me for bad info.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgePayne View Post
    What do you guys think ?
    That Darion has no reason to side with either side. The Ebon Blade is one of the factions for whom neutrality makes sense.

    Worse, regardless of the truth of the matter, the Forsaken ARE acting like the Scourge. Darion can really only go by what is actually happening...and, since h isn't privy to Sylvanas' underlying motive...that SHOULD (in this storyline) give him every reason to either keep his neutrality or declare himself AGAINST Sylvanas.

    The initial set up is a decent one, but Darion and the Blades need a stronger motive to join with Sylvanas. The obvious one - Sylvanas simply dominates Darion and his undead Knights - is one Forsaken players won't like.

    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    What is the obsession with claiming neutral factions?
    Neutrality is nonsensical for many of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    The Alliance of Lordaeron, in their ignorance, were committing an injustice, yeah, those who always talk of justice and goodness, and for ignorance exiled Tirion aswell. The old man was the only one that knew the truth and truly followed the ideals of his Order, while the rest just wanted their petty vengeance on an innocent individual
    Eitrigg was an Orc and thus shares some of the blme for the atrocities carried out by the Orcs in the Fist and Second Wars. He was, after all, part of the Horde and took part in those atrocities.

    Saying that Tirion should "pay" with his life because he honestly followed the ideals of his order would like say that the Silver Hand's ideals were bullshit. WTF
    The ideals you speak of saw him strike down his own men and abandon his own wife and son in an attempt to save an enemy of the state who had -almost without doubt - taken part in many atrocities.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-06-18 at 08:37 PM.

  16. #56
    Pit Lord Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxilian View Post
    But that also happens to humans in WoW....
    ...or does it?
    *dramatic music plays*

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by RadasNoir View Post
    If Blizzard ever has either the Argent Crusade or the Knights of the Ebon blade acknowledge Sylvanas's atrocities, which is unlikely considering one or both would then have to stomp her and the Foresaken back into the dirt they came from, I see the reverse happening: Darion and the majority of the rest of the Death Knights would be the first ones to want to exterminate what they would likely see as the second coming of the Scourge under Sylvanas's direction, and Tirion would, as usual, try to play the peacemaker for as long as possible.

    I still hold out hope that, again assuming that Blizzard properly addresses the Foresaken problem at all, Thassarian did his whole disappearing act in the Plaguelands specifically so he could run and warn Darion about what Sylvanas is up to.
    There is no reason at all for Darion to stop Forsaken.
    The common man is like a worm in the gut of a corpse, trapped inside a prison of cold flesh, helpless and uncaring, unaware even of the inevitability of its own doom.

  18. #58
    Elemental Lord Tastyfish's Avatar
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    Tirion has better relations with the orcs, just fyi.


    We are all dead anyway, after wrathion is done making the dragon soul 2, aka the rift betweeeeeen worrrrrrlds
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  19. #59
    Epic! Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    He collaborated with the enemy, and whatever the circumstances, this is high treason, and the punishment is death.
    He didn't "collaborate" with no-one, he simply saved the life of someone that saved his aswell, an "enemy" that despite everything has been eager to save Tirion by certain death regardless the fact that he was a human, so his enemy aswell. Tirion honored his debt by saving Eitrigg's life aswell, nothing more than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Eitrigg was an Orc and thus shares some of the blme for the atrocities carried out by the Orcs in the Fist and Second Wars. He was, after all, part of the Horde and took part in those atrocities.
    Yeah, too bad that no one gave a fuck about if Eitrigg had effectively did "atrocities" or just fought his war, since he clearly said to Tirion that when the madness and the greed of his brethren became blatant and clear (as Gul'dan's manipulations aswell) he left the Horde, because he saw them as "lost".

    No, the crowd there wanted the orc dead because....was an orc, despite the fact that he left the Horde and lived in isolation for countless of years, minding his own businesses. They just dubbed him as a "creature of darkness", simply beliving that an orc was evil by default, and so they felt justified in mocking, spitting, kicking him and then killing him in a public execution, all sustained by a pathetic worm like Barthillas, that wasn't absolutely worth to be called a "paladin".

    The ideals you speak of saw him strike down his own men and abandon his own wife and son in an attempt to save an enemy of the state who had -almost without doubt - taken part in many atrocities.

    EJL
    "Almost without a doubt" it's a shallow and pretentious statement for justify a death execution, in fact they never talked about Eitrigg regarding what he was supposed to have done, there was just biased despise about the fact that he was an orc and so an evil creature "without a doubt", and Barthillas wouldn't never gave up his desire to let off steam his bitterness to Eitrigg simply because he was an orc and wanted to unload his frustrations to him, not even if someone would have brought blatant proves that Eitrigg didn't have a fuck to do with his parents's death.

    Barthillas was pissed, he never had the chance to kill an orc and was full of repressed hate, and wanted to use the first random orc for satisfy his desire of killing something "orcish", and not even in a honorable manner (since he was too young and incompetent for mess with Eitrigg) but bullying him when he was chained and powerless. What a paladin.

    Yeah, Tirion had to abandon his wife and son because no one tried to understand his position, the reasons for which he did what he did, they were too biased and blind on the matter that refused to even conceive the thought that an orc really saved a human life, which was impossible since the orcs are all evil creatures, they prefered to belive that one of their greatest heroes became mad and "dreamed" everything than actually reconsider their position, at least on that particular matter.

    Ofcourse Tirion didn't love to abandon his wife and son, since he didn't just abandoned them, he abandoned any personal pleasure and comfort, the respect of his people, his wealthy position as lord of Hearthglen, everything, and he did it for the sake of honor, because that "evil creature" saved his life reagardless the fact that they fought to kill each other, despite the fact that Tirion was Eitrigg's enemy, and with no personal interest about it, the orc did it because he felt was right to do so, nothing more.

    Tirion simply felt that was an absolute injustice to leave such a person treated like a dirty rabid dog and doomed to death execution just because the person in question was an orc; he had a debt of honor with Eitrigg and, because of his ideals as paladin of the Silver Hand, he had to respect them, even if this meant a lot of personal (and painful) sacrifices. And i guess that personal sacrifice in name of true justice is the more important valor for a paladin and the most difficult to respect and honor.

    And don't make so melodramatic the fact that he STROKE DOWN his own men, he didn't hurt them, he has been very careful to just counter-attack, defend himself but without hurting anyone.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-06-18 at 11:29 PM.

  20. #60
    Herald of the Titans Nadev's Avatar
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    Why does Tirion take shit from Sylvanas? He could end that hoe.

    And what free will is there for the Forsaken? Last I checked, it was "Serve us or the level 5s will loot your skull for a quest".
    Last edited by Nadev; 2013-06-18 at 11:27 PM.
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