Wouldn't say I miss it but I remember good times when I used to, haven't been Holy since about mid-wrath after starting in early TBC.
Infectionate Serenades Bubblesbee[A] ↑ ↓ [H]
Nasturtium Fisticuffs Blesshu Sinnocence Shoctologist Ellipsis Hiddenfee Teddiursa
I am longterm disc also. Since WOTLK. Started messing out with holy for fun for like two weeks now and it works. But yes I can see bubbles being still better for fuck up and "close to death" situations. Mostly I am missing PW:S.
Some ranks to see. And you can also check some healing done in some of the logs, but yes if you play disc and just play disc for "its a must" its a lie you can easily compete and do even more HPS on some fights as holy. Personally I am switching from holy to disc at various fights.
here is how i see it (hc versions only) -
Jinrokh (doable in both spec - disc better)
Horridon (doable in both spec - disc much better)
Council of Elders (doable in both spec - disc is slightly better)
Tortos (doable in both spec - I found being holy much better here)
Meg (doable in both spec - both spec almost same, holy much more fun here )
Ji-kun (didnt kill it as holy as disc is superb here on main platform)
Durumu (didnt kill it as holy, but I think also should be really doable)
Primo (doable in both spec - disc a bit better)
Dark Animus (didnt kill it yet, but as we two heal I am rather doing it as disc)
Qon (doable in both spec, having more fun here as holy)
Twins (killed it as disc for just once atm)
Lei Shen (not yet killed)
Last edited by Vashi; 2013-06-27 at 05:49 AM.
Retired... but for how long? WAS DRAGGED TO THE LEGION HYPETRAIN!!!
For 25 man I'd note a fairly large difference on atonement heavy bosses you don't get quite as much out of the damage buffs proportional to the amount of people since its capped now.
Disc is definitely still better on horridon for dire calls alone but on jinrohk and jikun holy is great and on magera I feel like you do more work for no gain as disc, you do upfront shielding and then shitty sustain instead of amazing burst and sustain response healing. Most of the others the difference is very small and it seems it swings slightly in favor of one of the other on a 5/7 boss split. I can't imagine now trading Divine Hymn for barrier on twins.
As a Holy in a 10 man who 2 heals with another Disc priest, it's quite interesting to see the differences really. On our first kills of each hc bosses it looked like this in total healing by comparison to the Disc to later farm kills:
Holy did more on Jin'rokh, Tortos, Council, Megaera, Durumu, Primordius, Dark Animus, Iron Qon, Twins (still working on Lei shen but that looks better as disc at the mo).
Once they're on Farm though with ppl doing less 'oopsies' and more gear, Disc does shine a lot more since there's less to burst heals on and the absorbs get stronger (although in 10, Holy is still strong at Tortos, Megaera, Iron Qon, Dark Animus if 2 healed and about on par on Primordius and Twins hc - so at least half the bosses and that's with an absorbs healer)
It might make Holy 'look' worse at that point especially with the lack of utility, but nothing's really changed other than we're outgearing the content now. Personally I'd say that Holy is viable even on hc progress BUT it would depend on your other healer comp and the fight itself, as absorbs can make or break certain fights. On those where it doesn't there's no reason to not switch to Holy if you miss it I'd say
I prefer disc, I play holy if I'm feeling lazy or are distracted mostly - you don't have to think as much, just react.
There are some places where I play it for the raw hps it offers.
So, no; I don't miss playing holy, I miss my shadow spec :/
I play Holy from BC, and nothing, literally nothing will make me switch to "shield tank every 12s, spam Smite, roll SS before big shits are coming" gameplay.
Holy, in my opinion, has best burst healing powers ever. And even since we have stupid absorb-"healing" prevalation in modern days, there are countless times when our Disc fails in shielding raid properly, and guess who saves everybody with uber-powered aoe heals, while disc is struggling to triage with his miserable childish heals? Hell yeah.
Also, when we had progression raids on Durumu/IQ (heroic, ofc), we had absolutely none absorb "healers", yet we managed to own bosses without any problems.
After reading some more posts:
I don't see where the problem is with Holy, there are encounters where I play it on progression (yes progression for us, not for the top 10 of the world), because while I loose dps from atonement we can do it with one healer less that way. Even with suboptimal gear (11k spirit, prio on crit) I can outheal our paladin who should have to advantage of absorbs counting first on the logs and who doesn't play bad at all.
Plays well with other healer specs as well.
Also, I find lately I don't bother with spirit shell on dire calls anymore. It doesn't make a difference in the end aside from the mana I save not casting it and I don't care for the logs. That still leaves the advantage of atonement on that fight, true, but that is one, not two reasons.
In the end that is what I use on some of the heroic 10 encounters:
Jinrokh; mostly as disc, depends on other healers
Horridon; disc, atonement, but SS doesn't matter
Council of Elders; holy, I like the single target hps it offers in the frost phase
Tortos; disc, spamming the (single) tank with absorbs
Meg; varies; depends on other healers
Ji-kun; disc, doing nests it is usefull to be able to kill things while healing if someone misses his cue
Durumu; disc, because I'm lazy and like the freedom atonement gives me for positioning
Primo; holy, I dislike having to get the buffs
Dark Animus; I will do this as disc, because of postitioning and PW:S
Qon; doing this as holy, sometimes disc if I forget to switch specs
Twins; I think I'll go with disc here most likely, both seems viable
Lei Shen; disc unless, I find a reason to switch to holy
I prefer the feel of the disc spec (which was true even before atonement became frequent), thus there are more encounters where I use that spec in this list, but if you thinkg you have a hard time on several encounters because you play holy instead of disc then you are deluding yourself and should be looking elsewhere than the specs for problems.
---------- Post added 2013-06-27 at 12:13 PM ----------
I am quite scared looking at 5.4. I really, really wouldn't want to be directed into going Disc a whole lot again, like in past raids... Even though Holy has it shortcomings compared to Disc I've been "allowed" to play it a lot this tier (with a lot of mumbles about how I should go Disc), but it seems for sure Disc will be even more ahead in the upcoming raid than they are now. What are your experiences?
10man disc is required for serious progression as to it adds a non-negligible amount of dps and a massive amount of EH when it is needed. Any serious 10 man or 25man should have 1 disc priest. The issue is that priests end up getting forced into disc in 10s.
nothing but empty space here bro. move along now.
If you are playing disc when you wanna slack a bit then you are most likely only casting atonement spells - which I can't do, my raid would die (in some of those encounters at least). Holy gives a lot more hps for just a little more attention than atonement requires and there is basically no need to think ahead, ever.
So... I don't miss holy because I am playing it, and I can't understand all that whining about it needing sooo much spirit and being not viable either, because it is doing quite well even with the wrong gear. Yes sometimes it would play even better with more spirit than disc needs most of the time (notice how there are times where disc would have use for that, too, they are just not whining about it), but if every healer would need the exact same amount of spirit (and/or other stats) combined with the normalized mana pools Blizzad could just give all healers energy and forget about the concept of mana regeneration stats. Would make healing balance much easier, too, what with there being less variables and all...
Heh. You really should play holy once in a while if you miss it. Tend to agree with Piffnifty, even in 10s, there are fights where it can work well. You got to have your chakra switching sorted (grr.. I wish we didn't have chakras).
My numbers too look bad on farm fights, but I thought that was just me because, well, it depends on the boss, but I tend to take it easy and then burst out the big healing numbers when needed, those bursts aren't so big on farm content.
Some of it is my opinion, but those points should be quite obvious and I can't see how you would disprove the rest.
I do play both, and I do know my gear is suboptimal for holy and still it works out better for us to play holy in some encounters despite the claim that that should be impossible even with optimal stat distribution. So why shouldn't I come to the conclusion that those claims are greately exaggerated? (Or I could just be really bad as disc and phenomenal as holy for no apparent reason.)
because disc's output in jinrokh is very high due to lucidity+atonement, and the extra damage allows you to push the fight faster. and do we really need to examine archangel bubble spam before the lightning dodge phase? even in poor gear an arch'd PWS can absorb an entire lightning ball's worth of fuckup/lag.
plus you can absorb most of a focused lightning/ionization nuke with a PWS.
plus binding heal is atrocious, and isn't a smart heal.