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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Mctriple View Post
    You're probably doing it wrong.


    We're 11/13HM (25) too, and our holy priest is always holy. Always.
    because at this point in the patch, people have so much more health that they're effectively running a half a PWS on their entire raid. trying to survive jolts @ 518-522 ilvle is a whole lot different than surviving jolts @ 540 w/ leg cape.

  2. #42
    Wouldn't say I miss it but I remember good times when I used to, haven't been Holy since about mid-wrath after starting in early TBC.
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  3. #43
    Stood in the Fire Vashi's Avatar
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    I am longterm disc also. Since WOTLK. Started messing out with holy for fun for like two weeks now and it works. But yes I can see bubbles being still better for fuck up and "close to death" situations. Mostly I am missing PW:S.

    Some ranks to see. And you can also check some healing done in some of the logs, but yes if you play disc and just play disc for "its a must" its a lie you can easily compete and do even more HPS on some fights as holy. Personally I am switching from holy to disc at various fights.

    http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/191620/rankings/players/

    here is how i see it (hc versions only) -

    Jinrokh (doable in both spec - disc better)
    Horridon (doable in both spec - disc much better)
    Council of Elders (doable in both spec - disc is slightly better)
    Tortos (doable in both spec - I found being holy much better here)
    Meg (doable in both spec - both spec almost same, holy much more fun here )
    Ji-kun (didnt kill it as holy as disc is superb here on main platform)
    Durumu (didnt kill it as holy, but I think also should be really doable)
    Primo (doable in both spec - disc a bit better)
    Dark Animus (didnt kill it yet, but as we two heal I am rather doing it as disc)
    Qon (doable in both spec, having more fun here as holy)
    Twins (killed it as disc for just once atm)
    Lei Shen (not yet killed)
    Last edited by Vashi; 2013-06-27 at 05:49 AM.

  4. #44
    For 25 man I'd note a fairly large difference on atonement heavy bosses you don't get quite as much out of the damage buffs proportional to the amount of people since its capped now.

    Disc is definitely still better on horridon for dire calls alone but on jinrohk and jikun holy is great and on magera I feel like you do more work for no gain as disc, you do upfront shielding and then shitty sustain instead of amazing burst and sustain response healing. Most of the others the difference is very small and it seems it swings slightly in favor of one of the other on a 5/7 boss split. I can't imagine now trading Divine Hymn for barrier on twins.

  5. #45
    As a Holy in a 10 man who 2 heals with another Disc priest, it's quite interesting to see the differences really. On our first kills of each hc bosses it looked like this in total healing by comparison to the Disc to later farm kills:
    Holy did more on Jin'rokh, Tortos, Council, Megaera, Durumu, Primordius, Dark Animus, Iron Qon, Twins (still working on Lei shen but that looks better as disc at the mo).

    Once they're on Farm though with ppl doing less 'oopsies' and more gear, Disc does shine a lot more since there's less to burst heals on and the absorbs get stronger (although in 10, Holy is still strong at Tortos, Megaera, Iron Qon, Dark Animus if 2 healed and about on par on Primordius and Twins hc - so at least half the bosses and that's with an absorbs healer)

    It might make Holy 'look' worse at that point especially with the lack of utility, but nothing's really changed other than we're outgearing the content now. Personally I'd say that Holy is viable even on hc progress BUT it would depend on your other healer comp and the fight itself, as absorbs can make or break certain fights. On those where it doesn't there's no reason to not switch to Holy if you miss it I'd say

  6. #46
    I prefer disc, I play holy if I'm feeling lazy or are distracted mostly - you don't have to think as much, just react.
    There are some places where I play it for the raw hps it offers.
    So, no; I don't miss playing holy, I miss my shadow spec :/

  7. #47
    I play Holy from BC, and nothing, literally nothing will make me switch to "shield tank every 12s, spam Smite, roll SS before big shits are coming" gameplay.
    Holy, in my opinion, has best burst healing powers ever. And even since we have stupid absorb-"healing" prevalation in modern days, there are countless times when our Disc fails in shielding raid properly, and guess who saves everybody with uber-powered aoe heals, while disc is struggling to triage with his miserable childish heals? Hell yeah.
    Also, when we had progression raids on Durumu/IQ (heroic, ofc), we had absolutely none absorb "healers", yet we managed to own bosses without any problems.

  8. #48
    After reading some more posts:
    I don't see where the problem is with Holy, there are encounters where I play it on progression (yes progression for us, not for the top 10 of the world), because while I loose dps from atonement we can do it with one healer less that way. Even with suboptimal gear (11k spirit, prio on crit) I can outheal our paladin who should have to advantage of absorbs counting first on the logs and who doesn't play bad at all.
    Plays well with other healer specs as well.

    Also, I find lately I don't bother with spirit shell on dire calls anymore. It doesn't make a difference in the end aside from the mana I save not casting it and I don't care for the logs. That still leaves the advantage of atonement on that fight, true, but that is one, not two reasons.

    In the end that is what I use on some of the heroic 10 encounters:

    Jinrokh; mostly as disc, depends on other healers
    Horridon; disc, atonement, but SS doesn't matter
    Council of Elders; holy, I like the single target hps it offers in the frost phase
    Tortos; disc, spamming the (single) tank with absorbs
    Meg; varies; depends on other healers
    Ji-kun; disc, doing nests it is usefull to be able to kill things while healing if someone misses his cue
    Durumu; disc, because I'm lazy and like the freedom atonement gives me for positioning
    Primo; holy, I dislike having to get the buffs
    Dark Animus; I will do this as disc, because of postitioning and PW:S
    Qon; doing this as holy, sometimes disc if I forget to switch specs
    Twins; I think I'll go with disc here most likely, both seems viable
    Lei Shen; disc unless, I find a reason to switch to holy

    I prefer the feel of the disc spec (which was true even before atonement became frequent), thus there are more encounters where I use that spec in this list, but if you thinkg you have a hard time on several encounters because you play holy instead of disc then you are deluding yourself and should be looking elsewhere than the specs for problems.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Vashi View Post
    I am longterm disc also. Since WOTLK. Started messing out with holy for fun for like two weeks now and it works. But yes I can see bubbles being still better for fuck up and "close to death" situations. Mostly I am missing PW:S.

    Some ranks to see. And you can also check some healing done in some of the logs, but yes if you play disc and just play disc for "its a must" its a lie you can easily compete and do even more HPS on some fights as holy. Personally I am switching from holy to disc at various fights.

    http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/191620/rankings/players/

    here is how i see it (hc versions only) -

    Jinrokh (doable in both spec - disc better)
    Horridon (doable in both spec - disc much better)
    Council of Elders (doable in both spec - disc is slightly better)
    Tortos (doable in both spec - I found being holy much better here)
    Meg (doable in both spec - both spec almost same, holy much more fun here )
    Ji-kun (didnt kill it as holy as disc is superb here on main platform)
    Durumu (didnt kill it as holy, but I think also should be really doable)
    Primo (doable in both spec - disc a bit better)
    Dark Animus (didnt kill it yet, but as we two heal I am rather doing it as disc)
    Qon (doable in both spec, having more fun here as holy)
    Twins (killed it as disc for just once atm)
    Lei Shen (not yet killed)
    I'm not so sure Jinrokh HC is better as disc. Sure, Atonment is a big weapon there, but on Lightning Storm, Holy has so many instants and ways to heal its an incredible spec there. If in Serenity, you can pre-Renew the raid or most of the raid (assuming 10s here), the go Cascade will heal for big amount wil will also refresh renew and proc mastery. In Sanctuary, assuming you can't stand still and cast, you got Cascade (enhanced by Chakra), CoH on cd, and PoM, all of this with high numbers of EoL will keep the raid up easily. In both stances you can use Lightspring/Lightwell which is a brilliant cd in this phase imo.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-27 at 12:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    I prefer disc, I play holy if I'm feeling lazy or are distracted mostly - you don't have to think as much, just react.
    There are some places where I play it for the raw hps it offers.
    So, no; I don't miss playing holy, I miss my shadow spec :/
    Funny, for me its the oppossite, I go disc when I feel like I wanna slack a bit

  10. #50
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    I am quite scared looking at 5.4. I really, really wouldn't want to be directed into going Disc a whole lot again, like in past raids... Even though Holy has it shortcomings compared to Disc I've been "allowed" to play it a lot this tier (with a lot of mumbles about how I should go Disc), but it seems for sure Disc will be even more ahead in the upcoming raid than they are now. What are your experiences?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    I am quite scared looking at 5.4. I really, really wouldn't want to be directed into going Disc a whole lot again, like in past raids... Even though Holy has it shortcomings compared to Disc I've been "allowed" to play it a lot this tier (with a lot of mumbles about how I should go Disc), but it seems for sure Disc will be even more ahead in the upcoming raid than they are now. What are your experiences?
    try the new FDCL on the ptr and your worries will be dispelled

    think of FDCL and DI with double 2 set(15/16) literally every spell benefits another spell or procs something its a crazy endless chain that makes the spec feel much more fluid.

  12. #52
    10man disc is required for serious progression as to it adds a non-negligible amount of dps and a massive amount of EH when it is needed. Any serious 10 man or 25man should have 1 disc priest. The issue is that priests end up getting forced into disc in 10s.
    nothing but empty space here bro. move along now.

  13. #53
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicarious View Post
    try the new FDCL on the ptr and your worries will be dispelled

    think of FDCL and DI with double 2 set(15/16) literally every spell benefits another spell or procs something its a crazy endless chain that makes the spec feel much more fluid.
    Yeah, I tried it! It's lovely when it does chainprocc, but I am not a huge fan of proccs, especially FH proccs while I play 99% in Sanc chakra. Worried about mana to, and to go for all spirit will hurt output aswell. I wonder how it will feel like during heavy burst aoe to waste GCD on FH's aswell? With 2pc it should deffo be worth it.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    Yeah, I tried it! It's lovely when it does chainprocc, but I am not a huge fan of proccs, especially FH proccs while I play 99% in Sanc chakra. Worried about mana to, and to go for all spirit will hurt output aswell. I wonder how it will feel like during heavy burst aoe to waste GCD on FH's aswell? With 2pc it should deffo be worth it.
    I feel there's enough downtime and procs last long enough to use them when its convenient, you never will waste them that's for sure and the mana saved is much greater than the mana the other talents return. One proc or the other will always be slightly lower than max potential because of chakra but I'm liking the fight design overall so far and how often you get to swap chakras in the tested bosses so far. As for procs its some personal preference sure but I like that its good even if you dont get lucky, balanced aroudn that assumption in fact, but when you do get lucky...wow.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    I'm not so sure Jinrokh HC is better as disc. Sure, Atonment is a big weapon there, but on Lightning Storm, Holy has so many instants and ways to heal its an incredible spec there. If in Serenity, you can pre-Renew the raid or most of the raid (assuming 10s here), the go Cascade will heal for big amount wil will also refresh renew and proc mastery. In Sanctuary, assuming you can't stand still and cast, you got Cascade (enhanced by Chakra), CoH on cd, and PoM, all of this with high numbers of EoL will keep the raid up easily. In both stances you can use Lightspring/Lightwell which is a brilliant cd in this phase imo.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-27 at 12:13 PM ----------



    Funny, for me its the oppossite, I go disc when I feel like I wanna slack a bit
    In Jinrokh 10 heroic you can just (mostly) stand around in either spec in the storm phase and spam glyphed binding heal (and a few other spells once in a while obviously).

    If you are playing disc when you wanna slack a bit then you are most likely only casting atonement spells - which I can't do, my raid would die (in some of those encounters at least). Holy gives a lot more hps for just a little more attention than atonement requires and there is basically no need to think ahead, ever.

    So... I don't miss holy because I am playing it, and I can't understand all that whining about it needing sooo much spirit and being not viable either, because it is doing quite well even with the wrong gear. Yes sometimes it would play even better with more spirit than disc needs most of the time (notice how there are times where disc would have use for that, too, they are just not whining about it), but if every healer would need the exact same amount of spirit (and/or other stats) combined with the normalized mana pools Blizzad could just give all healers energy and forget about the concept of mana regeneration stats. Would make healing balance much easier, too, what with there being less variables and all...

  16. #56
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    In Jinrokh 10 heroic you can just (mostly) stand around in either spec in the storm phase and spam glyphed binding heal (and a few other spells once in a while obviously).

    If you are playing disc when you wanna slack a bit then you are most likely only casting atonement spells - which I can't do, my raid would die (in some of those encounters at least). Holy gives a lot more hps for just a little more attention than atonement requires and there is basically no need to think ahead, ever.

    So... I don't miss holy because I am playing it, and I can't understand all that whining about it needing sooo much spirit and being not viable either, because it is doing quite well even with the wrong gear. Yes sometimes it would play even better with more spirit than disc needs most of the time (notice how there are times where disc would have use for that, too, they are just not whining about it), but if every healer would need the exact same amount of spirit (and/or other stats) combined with the normalized mana pools Blizzad could just give all healers energy and forget about the concept of mana regeneration stats. Would make healing balance much easier, too, what with there being less variables and all...
    There's so many wrong's in this post:/

  17. #57
    Heh. You really should play holy once in a while if you miss it. Tend to agree with Piffnifty, even in 10s, there are fights where it can work well. You got to have your chakra switching sorted (grr.. I wish we didn't have chakras).

    My numbers too look bad on farm fights, but I thought that was just me because, well, it depends on the boss, but I tend to take it easy and then burst out the big healing numbers when needed, those bursts aren't so big on farm content.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post
    There's so many wrong's in this post:/
    Please list them

    Some of it is my opinion, but those points should be quite obvious and I can't see how you would disprove the rest.
    I do play both, and I do know my gear is suboptimal for holy and still it works out better for us to play holy in some encounters despite the claim that that should be impossible even with optimal stat distribution. So why shouldn't I come to the conclusion that those claims are greately exaggerated? (Or I could just be really bad as disc and phenomenal as holy for no apparent reason.)

  19. #59
    because disc's output in jinrokh is very high due to lucidity+atonement, and the extra damage allows you to push the fight faster. and do we really need to examine archangel bubble spam before the lightning dodge phase? even in poor gear an arch'd PWS can absorb an entire lightning ball's worth of fuckup/lag.

    plus you can absorb most of a focused lightning/ionization nuke with a PWS.

    plus binding heal is atrocious, and isn't a smart heal.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    because disc's output in jinrokh is very high due to lucidity+atonement, and the extra damage allows you to push the fight faster. and do we really need to examine archangel bubble spam before the lightning dodge phase? even in poor gear an arch'd PWS can absorb an entire lightning ball's worth of fuckup/lag.

    plus you can absorb most of a focused lightning/ionization nuke with a PWS.

    plus binding heal is atrocious, and isn't a smart heal.
    The extra dps is true, but if your group has issues on surviving Lightstorm, Holy has more to offer - a buffed Cascade, CoH, Lightwell, PoM those are perfect spells for Lightning Storm. You can also proc DI just before Lightning Storm and pop it right when it starts, or you can go Serenity Chakra, spam Renews and Cascade them half way through. Loving holy on this fight. However, I suppose if the group is experienced and know how to survive Lightning Storm very effeciently, one can just stay disc and spam smite on the water to get the boss down faster.

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