1. #1

    Blue Tweets about Pally (most are about Turn Evil)

    Just curious, why was Burden of guilt replaced with the new talent? Not a terrible change, just wandering about the reasoning
    Ghostcrawler: We felt it would open up comp options for paladins. We really think comp trumps almost all PvP balance issues.

    Since Glyph of the Battle Healer didnt work out for ret, could it be redesigned so Holy could have some sort of melee healing?
    Ghostcrawler: If it could be optional. We'd hate to force every Holy paladin into melee just because we wanted to give them a fun glyph.

    Mind if I ask another question? You didn't like blood fear in 5.0 but you're practically giving it to Paladins? I'm confused
    Ghostcrawler: Turn Evil has a CD and cast time and paladins have to give up FoJ or Repentance to take it.

    Wasn't Blood Fear nerfed for locks because it was an instant fear? What about glyphed Turn Evil on PTR...
    Holinka: Patch notes say we will redo the glyph.

    Clemency could use a nerf, double bop/freedom is just too good to pass up.
    Holinka: You should check that row in 5.4. Unbreakable spirit will be quite a choice as well.

    Ret. Ages we were after a reliable slow. A "Cast time CC" isnt what we wanted. Welcome for RBG control. but Meh.
    Holinka: You have a spammable root break, hand of freedom, a passive snare and a whole tier of talents about run speed.
    DK and Warrior need to spend a talent or global to apply their snare. You have it passive on a seal.

    Not too mention they're gaining a new cc on a different DR then all their other CCs.
    Holinka: Actually Blinding Light is on the fear DR.

    Do you think Holy Paladins will be stronger or weaker without access to a slow mechanic AND an instant cast Turn Evil?
    Holinka: I don't think Paladin competitiveness hinges on the Turn Evil glyph. Holy Paladins don't take Burden of Guilt.

  2. #2
    they should make a talent that makes freedom remove stuns like it did back in woltk.. RIP

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by farrailgun View Post
    JRet. Ages we were after a reliable slow. A "Cast time CC" isnt what we wanted. Welcome for RBG control. but Meh.
    Holinka: You have a spammable root break, hand of freedom, a passive snare and a whole tier of talents about run speed.
    DK and Warrior need to spend a talent or global to apply their snare. You have it passive on a seal.
    That's extremely terrible reasoning. Paladins would have to spend a global as well to activate Seal of Justice, and then what? DPS in that seal? No way. You'd obviously switch back to Seal of Truth which costs us another global. Removing Burden of Guilt for a castable CC is terrible IMO. If they don't let us make it instant cast some way, then it's useless for a melee.

  4. #4
    Wait, they actually want to remove Burden of guilt? And I was just starting to enjoy my Ret again -.-
    oh well back to getting laughed at again in every pvp situation where you don't hit a wall if you run longer than 5 seconds in one direction.

    also I really don't get this new turn evil... if it has a cast time how is that much different from Repentance?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Doylez View Post
    Wait, they actually want to remove Burden of guilt? And I was just starting to enjoy my Ret again -.-
    oh well back to getting laughed at again in every pvp situation where you don't hit a wall if you run longer than 5 seconds in one direction.

    also I really don't get this new turn evil... if it has a cast time how is that much different from Repentance?
    Well as it stands, it would give (holy-)paladins the alternative of offering a cc on the fear/disorient dr instead of the sheep/incapacitate dr, think of RMPaladin for example.

    This change is unsatisfying to say the least. I can only hope they do something crazy with the glyph, and I don't mean fearing the player in place or reducing cast time by .2 seconds.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by cletis1234 View Post
    That's extremely terrible reasoning. Paladins would have to spend a global as well to activate Seal of Justice, and then what? DPS in that seal? No way. You'd obviously switch back to Seal of Truth which costs us another global. Removing Burden of Guilt for a castable CC is terrible IMO. If they don't let us make it instant cast some way, then it's useless for a melee.
    Seal of Truth does fuck all damage in arena/bgs, I prefer to stay in SoJ whenever I'm pvping.
    People don't forgive, they forget. - Rust Cohle

  7. #7
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Since Glyph of the Battle Healer didnt work out for ret, could it be redesigned so Holy could have some sort of melee healing?
    Ghostcrawler: If it could be optional. We'd hate to force every Holy paladin into melee just because we wanted to give them a fun glyph
    Can they change Seal of Insight mechanics for us then? Really sucks that we can't get into melee on so many fights to use it.

  8. #8
    Actually, I just wonder how will they redesign Glyph of Turn Evil. They said it will not be instant cast anymore, but what will be the glyph's new effect?
    Increase both cast time/CD and duration? Or just keep the target held in place instead of running away?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by farrailgun View Post
    Actually, I just wonder how will they redesign Glyph of Turn Evil. They said it will not be instant cast anymore, but what will be the glyph's new effect?
    Increase both cast time/CD and duration? Or just keep the target held in place instead of running away?
    It will likely be one of those options, which is sadly quite disappointing. Our talent tier basically comes down to "pick one of the 2 that DR's less with your arena comp", which is a pretty shitty choice for most players given what we COULD have had. All this does is prop up Holy in Arena, which isn't a bad thing, just sucks that it really only applies to 1 of the 3 specs, which also needed the least amount of help in PVP. And it does fuck-all for PVE. Actually, losing BoG HURTS in PVE, since it was useful on more than a handful of encounters.

    Ret will still have little practical CC, and will now have no snare (outside of seal swapping to SoJ, woo) and no ranged snare at all. Losing BoG really sucks, I was truly hoping they'd roll it into Ret baseline.

    Just when I thought Holinka could be the answer to our problems, it seems that they force-fed him the kool-aid. RIP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
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  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    It will likely be one of those options, which is sadly quite disappointing. Our talent tier basically comes down to "pick one of the 2 that DR's less with your arena comp", which is a pretty shitty choice for most players given what we COULD have had. All this does is prop up Holy in Arena, which isn't a bad thing, just sucks that it really only applies to 1 of the 3 specs, which also needed the least amount of help in PVP. And it does fuck-all for PVE. Actually, losing BoG HURTS in PVE, since it was useful on more than a handful of encounters.

    Ret will still have little practical CC, and will now have no snare (outside of seal swapping to SoJ, woo) and no ranged snare at all. Losing BoG really sucks, I was truly hoping they'd roll it into Ret baseline.

    Just when I thought Holinka could be the answer to our problems, it seems that they force-fed him the kool-aid. RIP.
    Holy actually does need help in pvp. They are very weak compared to the other healers and their representation in ranked pvp dropped significantly.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Holy actually does need help in pvp. They are very weak compared to the other healers and their representation in ranked pvp dropped significantly.
    That's why I said "it needs the least amount of help in PVP" of all the 3 specs. It's no Disc/MW, but it's not terrible, and is still more sought after than a Ret for most arena and RBG teams. And let's not even consider Prot.

    My point was that catering not one, but TWO talents on a tier to ONE spec seems a bit like a slap in the face, especially when the talent they removed played a key role in both PVE and PVP for the other 2 specs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    That's why I said "it needs the least amount of help in PVP" of all the 3 specs. It's no Disc/MW, but it's not terrible, and is still more sought after than a Ret for most arena and RBG teams. And let's not even consider Prot.
    Your logic makes zero sense. Holy is horrid in arenas (not RBGs).
    It's quite terrible compared to disc/mw/druid/shammy...oh wait...that's all the other healers.
    Holy is NOT sought after more than ret on most arena teams.

  13. #13
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    That's why I said "it needs the least amount of help in PVP" of all the 3 specs. It's no Disc/MW, but it's not terrible, and is still more sought after than a Ret for most arena and RBG teams. And let's not even consider Prot.

    My point was that catering not one, but TWO talents on a tier to ONE spec seems a bit like a slap in the face, especially when the talent they removed played a key role in both PVE and PVP for the other 2 specs.
    It also isn't resto shaman(the healer with the highest representation) or druids. Ret has a higher arena representation than holy right now. And Holy did take massive hits in the rbg department as well with the mastery nerfs+it getting double dipped by battle fatigue.

  14. #14
    Sounds like a lot of tweets from people that can't read.

  15. #15
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farrailgun View Post
    Actually, I just wonder how will they redesign Glyph of Turn Evil. They said it will not be instant cast anymore, but what will be the glyph's new effect?
    Increase both cast time/CD and duration? Or just keep the target held in place instead of running away?
    I wonder that too. I dont think it'll be increased duration since CCs last 8 sec max in PvP. Or standing still fear coz thats for PvE and we can just take repentance for that. I think they'll just make a new major glyph that has nothing to do with Turn Evil.

  16. #16
    Lol, great so they basically confirmed that Ret will not have access to instant Turn Evil? I guess i'll wait until the next ptr build to form an opinion, but i really wished one of those tweeters had asked the obvious question for why Ret will now have two talent options in the same tier that require standing still to cast - a massive dps loss for a melee...

    When you stop to cast you're ccing yourself for 1.5 or so, and then for who knows how long if you target get's away from you. I don't necessary mind getting into some sort of niche where Ret is a melee that has to hard-cast occasionally, but I'm not sure if they are intentionally going in that direction or just making changes for Holy without much thought for Ret...

  17. #17
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbubble View Post
    Your logic makes zero sense. Holy is horrid in arenas (not RBGs).
    It's quite terrible compared to disc/mw/druid/shammy...oh wait...that's all the other healers.
    Holy is NOT sought after more than ret on most arena teams.
    Basically this. "Not terrible" rofl

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