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  1. #1

    New changes for Tier 16 bonus

    Basically, the bonus of 2-set reduces the cd of rapidfire 12s per cast, and the bonus of 4-set the lock and load not consume 1 charge of L&L and the BW side is 2% for pet and player. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    The pet part of the 4 set doesn't have a set number yet. The new 2 piece is actually really really good. 5 arcane shots and boom, you already have a minute off of your rapid fire.

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  3. #3
    2 piece went from horrible to awesome overnight.

  4. #4
    Brewmaster mitbrandir's Avatar
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    I think the 2 set is going to give hunters quite a high uptime on RF, but i'm not sure if thats such a great perk to have, since I usually only use it to pump out faster Cobra Shots to get my focus back.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by mitbrandir View Post
    I think the 2 set is going to give hunters quite a high uptime on RF, but i'm not sure if thats such a great perk to have, since I usually only use it to pump out faster Cobra Shots to get my focus back.
    It's time for Marks to shine this coming tier.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Trape View Post
    It's time for Marks to shine this coming tier.
    But when RF is up you will be casting aimed, so its not really massively in favour of MM

  7. #7
    Blademaster Flidro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trape View Post
    It's time for Marks to shine this coming tier.
    Having a high uptime on RF won't necessarily mean MM will do great since it's likely hardcasting Aimed Shot won't be viable outside of Careful Aim, especially with changes to Arcane Shot. This will probably just ensure more focus to facilitate more Arcane Shots.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Trape View Post
    It's time for Marks to shine this coming tier.
    I wouldn't be so sure about that. Even if it benefits MM slightly more, it doesn't mean that it's going to overcome the huge gap in between itself and SV/BM.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 11:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Flidro View Post
    Having a high uptime on RF won't necessarily mean MM will do great since it's likely hardcasting Aimed Shot won't be viable outside of Careful Aim, especially with changes to Arcane Shot. This will probably just ensure more focus to facilitate more Arcane Shots.
    It's basically hurting itself. If you are hardcasting AiS during RF, you'll miss out on basically another rapid fire.

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  9. #9
    Blademaster Flidro's Avatar
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    This is true, it won't create the feedback loop if you hardcast Aimed Shot. Right now, it's a ~100 dps loss to cast Aimed Shot under haste effects; it's better to continue using Arcane Shot during Rapid Fire and Bloodlust outside of Careful Aim right now according to sims.

    I'm pretty sure 12 seconds won't be final.

  10. #10
    Wait a minute, I just thought of something. If we have enough focus to spam AS throughout rapid fire and almost get one off all of those 15 seconds, that equates to a ~3 minute reduction, which means it might be possible to have really really high uptime on rapid fire. I suppose BM is going to benefit the most from this.

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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Wait a minute, I just thought of something. If we have enough focus to spam AS throughout rapid fire and almost get one off all of those 15 seconds, that equates to a ~3 minute reduction, which means it might be possible to have really really high uptime on rapid fire. I suppose BM is going to benefit the most from this.
    I guess that means 12 seconds is definitely not going through. Having incredibly high uptime on a 40% haste buff would be OP.

  12. #12
    Old; Explosive Shot casts have a 40% chance to increase the number of charges your next Lock and Load effect has
    New; Explosive Shot casts have a 40% chance to not consume a charge of Lock and Load.

    There was discussion in another thread regarding how this was working on the PTR; what people observed; and how it actually worked. I am curious with the new wording if this is an intended fix; or a complete change of how the bonus was supposed to work altogether.

    I know the new updated bonuses are sort of opening the door for a good discussion on MM and the viability of in T16; the synergy between the set bonuses and the actual playstyle seem to one of the biggest problems. I have downloaded the PTR and will have to get set up as soon as this new update gets pushed; 12s off RF per arcane shot is a nice step up from 2s. How this and the and the more important 4p that's unique per spec ties in, only time and testing will tell though; on top of the 30 focus per arcane instead of 20 this could be pretty significant.

    What I will miss the least probably in terms of tier bonuses? Finding a place to cobra opener/pre-opener due to no thunderhawks from T15 2p; and thunderhawks in general because of bad AI/targeting wrong target etc.

  13. #13
    Assuming 12 seconds does go live, does this push ToTH above Ferver / Dire Beast?

  14. #14
    I spec into Thrill of the Hunt. I have free Arcane Shots 70% of the times, which means I'm at low focus only when having troubles focusing on my rotation. Otherwise, I'm spamming Arcane Shot a LOT.

    I'm most likely going to have Rapid Fire all the time now, which means I can reforge into crit/mastery now and not worry about haste at all. =D Yay 200k Claws and Kill Commands. =P

  15. #15
    12 seconds is more like it XD

  16. #16
    If this does go live, having an incredibly high uptime on RF will probably shift the stat prio to something like Crit > Mastery > haste i assume.

  17. #17
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    12 seconds sounds a bit too high. It's not like RF is an awesome CD for us, but we'd end up with a ridiculous uptime on it.

    Edit: I looked at some random logs of mine. Unless it's a very AoE focused fight, I can expect to do roughly 15 AS per minute on average. Let's say I just used RF. 40 seconds later, there's gonna be 140 seconds left on the cooldown, and from that we can subtract 10 (number of AS in 40 seconds) * 12 = 120 seconds. Without doing the exact math, it's a fair assessment that it'll take max 45 seconds to completely reset the CD of RF.

    All in all it looks like somewhere around 30-40% uptime on RF with the T16 2p bonus as it is right now. This can be compared to the normal 12-15% we see today. Honestly having done some quick math, this doesn't seem that crazy considering how weak of a cooldown RF is.

    Does anyone have a good estimate how much our dps is actually increased during 15 seconds of RF?
    Last edited by Beace; 2013-06-20 at 12:29 AM.

  18. #18
    Yeah 12 does seem kind of high, especially since we'll get more AS's off during the beginning of the fight and whenever RF is actually up. Then again most of the tier/other pieces I saw were pretty much the exact opposite of what we've had in ToT, most of the tier (at least when I saw them, no idea if they changed stats) had garbage stats.
    Last edited by Hayro1; 2013-06-20 at 12:35 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    Assuming 12 seconds does go live, does this push ToTH above Ferver / Dire Beast?
    I'd be surprised if it didn't for Survival, and it may be close for BM. Dire Beast is just so good for BM though.

    Though I think it's safe to assume it won't go live at 12 seconds. That leads to 80%+ uptime on RF, which is magical christmasland.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakog View Post
    I guess that means 12 seconds is definitely not going through. Having incredibly high uptime on a 40% haste buff would be OP.
    Unless you constantly have TotH procs you probably wont be able to keep RF up al the time. you will likely have 2 signature shots and 1 or 2 focus regen shots during the 15s RF leaving about 10 seconds just for arcane. So the CD on RF would basically be reduced to somewhere between 15sec and 1 min. Its crazy OP though for everything but MM.

    Having rapid fire up all the time on MM but not being able to use it on aimed shot is not very beneficial. In addition you will likely limit your steady casts to two in a row every RF because you will have so much focus from them, RF and just doing AS that you wont get many MMM procs. The 4pc is even worse for MM when combined with the 2 piece since you have to trade RF uptime for aimed shots.

    They should at least add aimed shot to the list for the 2 pc(and make it reduce the CD more than AS). It would be even better if they just changed it to SS/CS reduces RF CD by x seconds. Then it would benefit all specs about the same. Or they could make the 4pc MM bonus be "arcane shot can also proc MMM." That woould be nice.

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