New changes for Tier 16 bonus

[Deleted]

i was using hc bad juju 2/2 upgrade and hc renataki's 2/2 upgraded.

[Tehstool]

i was using hc bad juju 2/2 upgrade and hc renataki's 2/2 upgraded.

The procs on those are so sporadic, you can go from 50% uptime to 18% for example. Honestly, it would be better to just test it without trinkets.

[Deleted]

right ok done the same 5 min test for bm for both t15 and t16 with no trinkets this time using a reforge prio of haste-crit-mastery.

T15 stats 467iLVL no trinkets equiped 59218 ap, 10704 haste, 6934 crit, 23.39% mastery hit and exp cap 146.3k dps over 5 mins

T16 stats 470ILVL no trinkets equiped 61663 ap, 10088 haste, 8509 crit, 23.99% mastery hit and exp cap 147.2k dps over 5 mins

I know results wont be perfect but it gives u a general idea of what is going on with the tier sets.

[Deleted]

We need real math :-(
Testings like than don't prove anything.

[Glurp]

I know results wont be perfect but it gives u a general idea of what is going on with the tier sets.

"won't be perfect" is an understatement. You pretty much wasted your time because it tells us completely nothing.

[Deleted]

at least i am putting time and effort to try and find the issues are. I wish people would spend less time flaming others for trying to help and do something positive to help towards fixing the issues with hunters.

[Noctifer616]

at least i am putting time and effort to try and find the issues are. I wish people would spend less time flaming others for trying to help and do something positive to help towards fixing the issues with hunters.

I don't think he is flaming, he is simply stating that a better method is required to really take a look at the difference between the T15 and T16 set bonuses.

Thanks for your time and posting your info, but we really need simulators that allow us to test the set bonuses at the same ilvl.

[Deleted]

It's not flaming.
It's just that we can't really conclude anything from a 5 min test not using the same stats.

If you want to show something more reliable, it has to be longer (and we need to be sure that you play at the same lvl the whole time and without any lag), 20 min would be a good start.
Then you need to have exactly the same stats.
And ultimately, the t15 bonuses are RPPM based which means more variance as well...

But you'll still be affected by RNG...

[Glurp]

at least i am putting time and effort to try and find the issues are. I wish people would spend less time flaming others for trying to help and do something positive to help towards fixing the issues with hunters.

I'm not flaming anyone. Just saying that your information is meaningless.

Simcraft results under 10,000 iterations are inaccurate. What makes you think your 1 test in accurate? If you want to put time into testing it like that you're going to need 27.7 hours.

[omnii]

At this point in time, I can almost promise you its not worth doing math for the 4 piece, maybe the 2 piece but not the 4 piece. It will be changed, they can't actually believe that leaving it the way it is will be the best thing to do seeing how we cannot gain the full extent of the bonus.

[Glorious Leader]

I prefered the stacking bonus how it used to be. the 4 piece for surv is now just more rng. At least before when it was a number that stacked I could look at my buff and see how many charges I had instead of will it happen or wont it. I wonder why they changed it.

[Zeherah]

I did some more testing on PTR today to get some details about which abilities stack the buff for 4pc T16 BM. Here is what I determined:

Hunter stacks are not gained for the following abilities:
- Fervor
- Dire Beast

A single hunter stack is gained for the following abilities (regardless of the number of targets affected):
- A Murder of Crows
- Lynx Rush
- Glaive Toss
- Barrage
- Powershot
- Focus Fire

Serpent sting applies a stack on application but not ticks.

Multishot adds a stack for every target affected, so you can definitely hit the cap on stacks in a scenario with multiple targets.

Pet stacks are only from their focus attack (bite/claw/smack) and they do not gain a stack from thunderstomp or charge. Beast cleave does not seem to increase the amount of stacks the pet gets from their focus attack. No pet special abilities appear to apply stacks, including burrow attack and the debuff type attacks like dust cloud and acid spit.

[Deleted]

I did some more testing on PTR today to get some details about which abilities stack the buff for 4pc T16 BM. Here is what I determined:

Hunter stacks are not gained for the following abilities:
- Fervor
- Dire Beast

A single hunter stack is gained for the following abilities (regardless of the number of targets affected):
- A Murder of Crows
- Lynx Rush
- Glaive Toss
- Barrage
- Powershot
- Focus Fire

Serpent sting applies a stack on application but not ticks.

Multishot adds a stack for every target affected, so you can definitely hit the cap on stacks in a scenario with multiple targets.

Pet stacks are only from their focus attack (bite/claw/smack) and they do not gain a stack from thunderstomp or charge. Beast cleave does not seem to increase the amount of stacks the pet gets from their focus attack. No pet special abilities appear to apply stacks, including burrow attack and the debuff type attacks like dust cloud and acid spit.

They have to come up with a solution with the current BM 4pc.I've been sitting today for 3 hours str8 trying to find a way to get the maximum potential and it was impossible.There isnt a way you can get 15 stacks currently so they either have to increase BW duration or reduce the stacks and increase the damage per stack in order to be able to get the full potential of the 4pc.

[Zeherah]

They have to come up with a solution with the current BM 4pc.I've been sitting today for 3 hours str8 trying to find a way to get the maximum potential and it was impossible.There isnt a way you can get 15 stacks currently so they either have to increase BW duration or reduce the stacks and increase the damage per stack in order to be able to get the full potential of the 4pc.

Just because there is a maximum stack limit doesn't mean their intention is for you to meet that maximum. It probably exists to prevent cases like AoE from making the bonus too ridiculous (and as I said, multishot does apply one stack per target hit, so it is possible to hit the cap). Their goal presumably is for the 4pc to be worth a certain amount of dps and they'll likely tweak it as needed if it isn't meeting that goal. Focus on whether the dps the bonus provides is sufficient and the mechanic is well implemented and not on whether it's capping out stacks.

[Effinhunter]

Multishot adds a stack for every target affected, so you can definitely hit the cap on stacks in a scenario with multiple targets.

This is a very interesting find, Zeherah. The first two bosses are multi-target fights, and this multi-shot feature would definitely be useful there to reach maximum stacks. I have a feeling that multi-shot mechanic will not go live, though. The pets not gaining stacks through Beast Cleave is a likely indicator that the multi-shot target application was overlooked.

[Deleted]

Just because there is a maximum stack limit doesn't mean their intention is for you to meet that maximum. It probably exists to prevent cases like AoE from making the bonus too ridiculous (and as I said, multishot does apply one stack per target hit, so it is possible to hit the cap). Their goal presumably is for the 4pc to be worth a certain amount of dps and they'll likely tweak it as needed if it isn't meeting that goal. Focus on whether the dps the bonus provides is sufficient and the mechanic is well implemented and not on whether it's capping out stacks.

You are providing some valid points.Last night after testing protectors with my guild though i was able to get roughly 7-8 stacks which calculates to 14-16% increased dmg for x amount.During Burst phase though in order to maintain and increase the number of stacks you will either have to instantly pop beastial wrath after Readiness and not use a third KC during first beastial wrath or use third kill command and drop stacks and start stacking from ground zero again.My point is that new set bonus is like renataki's even if you had the chance to get the full potential like renataki's the duration of the full potential will last for a small amount of X time so even if you were able to get 30% it wouldnt be OP every 1 minute to have 30% for 1-2 seconds.

[Zeherah]

You are providing some valid points.Last night after testing protectors with my guild though i was able to get roughly 7-8 stacks which calculates to 14-16% increased dmg for x amount.During Burst phase though in order to maintain and increase the number of stacks you will either have to instantly pop beastial wrath after Readiness and not use a third KC during first beastial wrath or use third kill command and drop stacks and start stacking from ground zero again.My point is that new set bonus is like renataki's even if you had the chance to get the full potential like renataki's the duration of the full potential will last for a small amount of X time so even if you were able to get 30% it wouldnt be OP every 1 minute to have 30% for 1-2 seconds.

I don't think they actually intend for the bonus to be extendable with readiness since the last we heard they were planning to take bestial wrath off of it, but we'll see if that ends up going through.

Personally I think the design of the bonus makes it feel weak (regardless of whether it is) given the very short duration- you don't really get any significant time with the stacks once you gain them, and it's natural with any stacking ability to focus on the gaining of stacks more than the benefit during the building of them. However if they were to make the stacks last longer, they might need to also adjust the amount they buff, depending on what their target dps gain is for the bonus.

The way the bonus is currently designed, it's basically an "every shot is stronger than the last" type mechanism- since the only abilities outside the shots you fire that benefit are autoshot and DoT ticks. We do have to keep in mind that all your shots during the bestial wrath period are already buffed on damage, so it's really just making the cooldown itself stronger. I do think the current mechanic lends itself to a certain amount of optimization discussion regarding ability use order.

Keep in mind if you were able to get it to 30%, it wouldn't just be 30% for 1-2 seconds, but also 28% for the second before that and 26% for the second before that and so forth. Each ability used during the time it's up would have a slightly increased damage bonus.

The fact that it only procs off basic attacks for pets means that pets won't really be able to get above 3 stacks, so it will be far weaker for them.

[Jeremypwnz]

Given that we will be near the GCD with Cobra Shot most of the time with the 2 set reducing the CD on Rapid Fire, how is Focus Fire going to fit into our priority?

Something like using FF after RF ends? But not within 5-10 seconds of activating BW?

[Saoron]

The fact that it only procs off basic attacks for pets means that pets won't really be able to get above 3 stacks, so it will be far weaker for them.

Is it really a separate buff for the pet ? As in the pet is responsible for gaining it's own stacks ? I thought it was combined and it just added whatever stacks you and your pet gained together.. so if you had 10 stacks, that would be a 20% dmg increase for both you and your pet.. If it really isn't like that then they really need to change it so it is

[Deleted]

Bahahaha what?! You need to learn to manage focus more then if you only got 2 globals off in the 10 seconds given; The 4 piece is the most amazing bonus for BM. At the beginning of the pulls, i wont be surprised if we have the most burst. By the time you use your second BW, you are already at almost 10 stacks of the dmg boost if you time it all correctly, and you get the cap of 15 stacks with about 6-7 seconds left on 2nd BW. I am assuming they will give bonus dmg to the pet as well and any % would be a huge gain for our dmg. If you dont get at least 7 stacks with 1 BW, then im glad they made this set bonus because it'll help players learn to poll their focus before the next BW.

Edit: After a few test without optimized gear or constant mastery buff, sunders, Flask: I was able to reach 400k burst peak and sustained 210k on a boss dummy. Nothing to be taken seriously over, just a rough simulation pre buff. If nothing gets nerfed i am confindent in saying hunters will be one of the top burst dps with this bonus at least as BM.

Except that you forget the fact that Readiness does not reset BW in 5.4

12 seconds is probably a bit too high.. expect it to get lowered.