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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    Would you mind elaborating what you mean here?
    The central idea of the rogue class has always been, since we aren't GCD locked we can interact with our resources more than classes that have to hit a button every GCD. The problem is we’ve lost a lot of that design with the mindless spamminess of combat and the limited value of envenom pooling. A couple big rogue changes I’ve mentioned a few times before (although possibly not here), abilities used during the envenom buff do an additional X% damage as poison damage, give sub stealth charges that can be used to weave ambushes into the rotation.

    The basic goal is to give players choices where using something immediately is the wrong choice and reward careful resource pooling.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolkien View Post
    Combo points on ourselves - Definitely. We are the original combo point class and we still have this sloppy "redirect" feature on a skill with a long cooldown? It will be very dissapointing if we still work this way in the next xpac.

    As for vendetta I'm ok with it being on target. It's the whole point of the skill - you have a vendetta with someone (flavor is important sometimes!).

    Rogues feel more useful in raids more than ever tbh, even with the loss of the OP cleaves of 5.0. I'm ok with being like this till the end of 5.5
    Excellent post

    Agreeing with everything.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 08:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    GC also twitted "don't expect massive overhaul"

    I speak for myself but i think many rogues will do the same: if no rogue revamp (cp on rogue above all) will happen with 6.0 i'm going to reroll for sure, period.
    Another interesting post ^^

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Rigapples View Post
    Combat desperately needs help, and they already admitted that the GCD was a failed attempt at a solution.
    This is one thing I don't understand, the bandit's guile is amazingly designed, seperates the men from the boys. I love the restless blades, it doesn't force too much from the user but makes the spec a bit more quirky. Keeping the 3 buffs/dots up provides some work to do. But here's the rub, everyone knows the haste is simply too much, so why not cut back on it and redistribute it elsewhere?

    Take it off the base or off AR and dump that into mastery or something, the spec still plays smoothly without requiring spamming and also it plays for a more lenient spec like assassination, take 5s off the boss in mut and it's recoverable, 5s off in combat during AR+SB is gg.

    It's changes like these that really cream my corn, I see other classes getting hotfixed all the time to bring stuff into check, it's not difficult; simply change some numbers around test, rinse and repeat.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by fierydemise View Post
    The central idea of the rogue class has always been, since we aren't GCD locked we can interact with our resources more than classes that have to hit a button every GCD. The problem is we’ve lost a lot of that design with the mindless spamminess of combat and the limited value of envenom pooling. A couple big rogue changes I’ve mentioned a few times before (although possibly not here), abilities used during the envenom buff do an additional X% damage as poison damage, give sub stealth charges that can be used to weave ambushes into the rotation.

    The basic goal is to give players choices where using something immediately is the wrong choice and reward careful resource pooling.
    You have me sold on the sub stealth charges <3
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    This is one thing I don't understand, the bandit's guile is amazingly designed, seperates the men from the boys. I love the restless blades, it doesn't force too much from the user but makes the spec a bit more quirky. Keeping the 3 buffs/dots up provides some work to do. But here's the rub, everyone knows the haste is simply too much, so why not cut back on it and redistribute it elsewhere?

    Take it off the base or off AR and dump that into mastery or something, the spec still plays smoothly without requiring spamming and also it plays for a more lenient spec like assassination, take 5s off the boss in mut and it's recoverable, 5s off in combat during AR+SB is gg.

    It's changes like these that really cream my corn, I see other classes getting hotfixed all the time to bring stuff into check, it's not difficult; simply change some numbers around test, rinse and repeat.
    A lot of the combat design is great. The problem is A) Movement (time off the boss) and B) Capping when using cooldowns. Energy capping/CP capping (without Anticipation) is a major DPS loss. If you stack SB+AR+Heroism even with the T15 set bonus there is no way you are not capping your energy. This is a problem, no matter how you look at it.

    Combat needs some serious quality of life changes. It's great for the spec to be twitchy, but when the spec requires you to have a sub 20 ping to the server in order to be fully efficient, it's a major design flaw. /imo anyways.

    (And FYI I played Combat forever up until Cataclysm. It's the spec I fell in love with, it's the spec I would much prefer to play.. But with the changes to RS and the overall DPS issue compared to Assassination, I just can't do it and continue to raid in a progressoin guild.)

  6. #46
    Bloodsail Admiral Msi's Avatar
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    Glyph of Recuperate now increases the healing of Recuperate by an additional 1% (up from 0.5%).
    OH MY GOD MIND BLOWING

    /sarcasm off

  7. #47
    Omg recup is sooo oppp i will heal myself moar than blood dk's!!!1
    Last edited by D3athsting; 2013-06-21 at 10:23 AM.

  8. #48
    they already stated dont expect anything so well i dont i actually canceled my sub
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    This is one thing I don't understand, the bandit's guile is amazingly designed, seperates the men from the boys. I love the restless blades, it doesn't force too much from the user but makes the spec a bit more quirky. Keeping the 3 buffs/dots up provides some work to do. But here's the rub, everyone knows the haste is simply too much, so why not cut back on it and redistribute it elsewhere?

    Take it off the base or off AR and dump that into mastery or something, the spec still plays smoothly without requiring spamming and also it plays for a more lenient spec like assassination, take 5s off the boss in mut and it's recoverable, 5s off in combat during AR+SB is gg.

    It's changes like these that really cream my corn, I see other classes getting hotfixed all the time to bring stuff into check, it's not difficult; simply change some numbers around test, rinse and repeat.
    You don't find a flaw in being the one and only class which in order to be playable needs to gear suboptimally on every single encounter?
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

    i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    You don't find a flaw in being the one and only class which in order to be playable needs to gear suboptimally on every single encounter?
    What do you mean by this exactly :S

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    What do you mean by this exactly :S
    Every spec in the game has to somewhat change stats based on situations. There will be fights, however (such as durumu, jinrokh, twins this tier) which can be basically considered patchwerk and where each spec finds its optimal gear strategy in their simulated stats.

    According to your post, Combat rogues should gear differently just to have a normal flow in their rotation.

    You don't see a problem with that at all?
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

    i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Every spec in the game has to somewhat change stats based on situations. There will be fights, however (such as durumu, jinrokh, twins this tier) which can be basically considered patchwerk and where each spec finds its optimal gear strategy in their simulated stats.

    According to your post, Combat rogues should gear differently just to have a normal flow in their rotation.

    You don't see a problem with that at all?
    It depends, I rarely reforge for bosses. In fact, there's very little I can reforge as most of my stats either have mastery or haste, hence I can only reforge into the other one.

    You might want to read my post again, I didn't say that combat rogues should gear differently. What I did say was that adrenaline rush provides far too much energy for today's level of play and that they (blizzard) should remove some of this excess and apply it into mastery like assassination has.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Dudebanger View Post
    What were you expecting when you saw Riposte? We already have dismantle for all rogues. Not just combat anymore. Having a RNG disarm on top of a class build-in disarm is not fun at all if you're on the receiving end of that.
    Riposte was much more than that, it was like warriors overpower except with parry and came with a speed reduction which I felt was really cool flavor for combat.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    But here's the rub, everyone knows the haste is simply too much, so why not cut back on it and redistribute it elsewhere?

    Take it off the base or off AR and dump that into mastery or something, the spec still plays smoothly without requiring spamming and also it plays for a more lenient spec like assassination,
    Quote Originally Posted by theherecy View Post
    You might want to read my post again, I didn't say that combat rogues should gear differently. What I did say was that adrenaline rush provides far too much energy for today's level of play and that they (blizzard) should remove some of this excess and apply it into mastery like assassination has.
    This part just made me think you were talking about gearing, not spell changing. Guess I simply didn't understand what you were trying to say.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

    i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    This part just made me think you were talking about gearing, not spell changing. Guess I simply didn't understand what you were trying to say.
    No worries, I think the onus is on blizz to reduce the haste on adrenaline rush. Sure they can say "well you're reforging into haste" but fuck them it's too good not to. I would say drop that down to 50% and pump that missing damage into eviscerate and sinister strike to compensate for this. A side effect would be combat will feel more responsive (punchy if you like) whilst not burdening the user with 1/2s GCD.

  16. #56
    Well, what if combat got back the +crit damage on moves like sinister strike- or even added it to eviscerate as well?

    Or what if combat's mastery was more powerful crits, or what if it was just better than haste?


    Now you aren't reforging into haste.


    I don't think the problem is AR, and if it is, give me a 200 energy bar, or address how we need to reforge haste or leave too much damage lying on the ground.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Well, what if combat got back the +crit damage on moves like sinister strike- or even added it to eviscerate as well?

    Or what if combat's mastery was more powerful crits, or what if it was just better than haste?


    Now you aren't reforging into haste.


    I don't think the problem is AR, and if it is, give me a 200 energy bar, or address how we need to reforge haste or leave too much damage lying on the ground.
    Base energy regeneration is 10 per second. AR brings that to 20. Add in combat potency, slice and dice and 10% melee haste and you're looking at a 1.7 swing timer on a slow offhand with a 37% chance of proccing the energy regen. This means that you're effectively gaining another 15 energy every 4.6 seconds, or about 3 energy per second.

    23 energy per second from using your two cooldowns without having any haste. Given that SS costs 40 that seems fine.

    What happened though is that haste is our best stat, and that Shadow Blades has a 40% energy reduction tied to it. The energy reduction from shadow blades is already enough so that a SS costs 24 energy, which makes SS spamming every second for the whole duration feasible already. Given that that's our most expensive move, with finishers even giving us back energy, without even considering a single point of haste, that's pretty much an issue on its own already. On top of it you add haste regen. A combat rogue stacking haste has about 14 energy regen, which means he gets 8 more energy per second during AR.

    The real problem therefore is that a stat should not stack that way with a cooldown so that it definitely becomes the best choice while also providing less and less enjoyable play. On top of that they added a set bonus which just made things worse.

    Giving us a 200 energy bar isn't going to change anything, you'll still cap energy as long as you have > 50 ms.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

    i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    I don't think the problem is AR, and if it is, give me a 200 energy bar, or address how we need to reforge haste or leave too much damage lying on the ground.
    It's not so much a problems that it feels fast, it's the fact that so much dps lies in using it properly. 1 slip up and it costs you big, have to move away from the boss for raid reasons? Well fuck you: enjoy your deeps

    Unfortunately, outside of AR+SB your damage is a joke so it highlights the problems with AR that much more. Slow the pace down with AR by 30-50%, balance it into sustained dps and you have yourself a very well designed spec.

  19. #59
    Except that adrenaline rush doesn't bring baseline energy regen to 20. Adrenaline rush doubles your energy regen because it stacks multiplicatively with all other energy regeneration sources

    Baseline: 10 energy/sec
    Baseline + vitality = 10 * 1.2 = 12 energy/sec
    Baseline + vitality + AR = 10 * 1.2 * 2 = 24 energy/sec

    at 20% haste (8500 haste rating, easy to exceed with current gear) = 10 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 2 = 28.8 energy sec. During shadow blades sinister strike costs 24 energy with 4-set. Add in relentless strikes and combat potency and you're at an energy-positive rotation even at a 0.5sec GCD.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    they already stated dont expect anything so well i dont i actually canceled my sub
    /respect
    10chars

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