That's not to say I don't want to use judgment at all. They could make SH more like HP for Holy, ie a burst heal. Increase the cooldown to 10 seconds and allow you to judge friendly targets for spleash heal that generates HP.That could make it competitive? As for SS have it also increase healing done by the paladin by 30% or something? Would make it strong on targeted dot targets / tanks etc?
I'll be more than happy to move away from EF spam on every fight but they need to give us alternatives for different fight types.
1) I still think Eternal Flame needs to just be made baseline for Holy whether the HoT procs mastery or not (my US forum post suggested 15% IH, 15% beacon transfer from the HoT portion). Right now we have absolutely no way to spend HP on proactive healing, and frankly, I think that a) being able to both proactively and reactively heal makes for a good toolkit and challenging playstyle, and b) all healing seems to be moving toward proactive healing, even including shamans to an extent.
I don't agree that all healing should be proactive (read: disc priest needs nerfs), but there should definitely be a component of both.
2) I'm actually more and more open to a melee DPS-weaving playstyle (I know, I hated it before), but only so long as it is completely optional (unlike "optional" but really mandatory for disc or pre-5.2/5.3 monk). I actually found weaving crusader strikes with Holy Avenger up and barely casting anything to be sort of fun.
All those holy paladins in this threat that seem to think that non EF healing is viable, please don't be absurd. Single target slow heals are a thing of the past, even in 10 man, your heals will get sniped by all the smart and instant heals. Nerfing EF will just lead to LoD spam, which takes no skill at all, and is an incredibly boring play style.
Holy Paladins are in dire need of massive fixes if this EF nerf goes live as there'll be very little reason to take one to raids, even in 10. Our utility is brought by protection paladins as well, protection paladins who are incredibly overpowered in 10s.
Read carefully what Freia has been posting, he hits the nail on the head in almost every post.
Last edited by Cairhiin; 2013-06-22 at 03:27 PM.
Taking the mastery shield out of EF's hot seems to me like it makes EF pretty crap? Without the shield it's a relatively weak, long cooldown, unspammable hot that heals very slowly. Unless you're in a situation without any overheals for huge periods of time, it's a pretty shitty ability. It's not like we can anticipate high damage in the next 10-20 seconds and roll out a dozen short-duration EFs for it, except maybe once every 2 minutes with cooldowns; the rolling mastery shields is what makes it good.
Without the rolling mastery shield all of its healing is going to go to complete waste, much more so than any other hot. Maybe if we could save up like 30 charges of holy power or something, but somehow I don't see that happening.
"Why make trillions when we could make... billions??"
But I would be more excited for something wrath style to be attached to it, that seems like it would fit into the HoT healing idea devs have such a thing for right now.
for PvP the EF nerf is big, why, the Holy Pally's don't have a cast in move spell and only holy shock, so easy to interrupt and easy to cc, for stay in one place and cast...
EF is a great heal to cast in move right now...
Holy Paladins already aren't in the best place right now, and pretty much only Resto Shamans are worse than us but at least they bring utility. Selfless healer is no option, once again I can't even begin to understand the design behind it, why on earth would we go back to judging on cooldown (something that was deemed to not be fun by Ghostcrawler himself) just to get a buff on a heal you never use (FoL) and a heal you almost never use (DL). Maybe if Selfless Healer would proc off of Holy Shock until then I see no reason to take it.
Last edited by Cairhiin; 2013-06-23 at 04:22 PM.
I usually post under my account (Ishau) but have decided to use my girlfriends account on this occasion as I am on her computer.
I have always been a fan of Holy Paladin and this has always been my main character, through the bad and the good. Recently it seems that the devs are nerfing Holy Paladins without any justifications or seeing the ramifications afterwords. I will agree that we were strong, and so many other healers jumped on the Mastery bandwagon saying it was a massive problem without realising it had nothing to do with Mastery itself and was mostly due to the increase Holy Power gains from the 4 set (first it was the PvP 4 set and then it was the PvE 4 set). They should not have nerfed mastery because it was clear that as soon as the old 4 set was nerfed or replaced the effect it provides would have been less.
I fail to see Illuminated Healing being 35% of our healing being a problem as it is our raid buffer/stabiliser. The same as Resto Druid have Rejev (which is easily just as mindless) being up to 50% of there healing. In the same way people count absorbs as 'sniping' it is no worse than when a Resto Druid gets 2 20k+ ticks of Rejev off before any cast can land on a target.
I have always disliked absorbs that aren't proactive (ie imo Power Word: Shield should stay, but Illuminated Healing and Divine Aegis should go) but as long as it is here and tied to a class it needs to actually work for us. Nerfing the mastery and then spells that effect it will only result in Holy Paladins being taken less to 2 healing heroic 10 man content. It needs to be brought back up to par, and so long as Holy Shock remains at 6 seconds it will be fine.
Divine Plea needs tweaking slightly. Since the innervate change it'll now become the only regen mechanic that doesn't scale with gear. Divine Plea needs to be based off spirit, and should allow for Paladins to gain more from it if they are able to time it with any spirit procs they so happen to have.
The Battle Healer glyph heal should be based off of our spell power for Holy Paladins and should make it so that our spells always hit (other healers with hit to heal mechanics don't have problems with misses or dodges, but spirit for us does nothing for our melee hit cap or expertise)
Selfless Healer in addition to current affects should make Judgment grant a charge of Holy Power. This coupled with Battle Healer glyph will make the talent more viable.
Sacred Shield just needs to be placed on a target and after 6 seconds will grant an absorb for X amount for 30 seconds based on Holy Power Spent. It can be placed on any number of targets as Holy Power allows, but does not stack and will overwrite any existing absorb placed (even if smaller amount). I feel this could be quite a good change as instead of using Holy Power to heal damage now, you have to be smarter and see what is happening in 6 seconds time.
Finally to poster above - Whilst you may never use them now, because you don't have Selfless Healer talent, you will use them now if you did have said talent because the talent makes those spells more viable to be used in a raid situation. Even just 1 stack is a boost to tank healing or raid healing, assuming that EF didn't exist and wasn't used.
Because right now all paladin utility is brought by every spec of paladin and then the absorbs can be covered by disc priests.
Last edited by Freia; 2013-06-23 at 06:26 PM.