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  1. #1041
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Add in him saying that increasing the target cap for LoD would just "lead to priests, monks and druids wanting their AE heals uncapped as well b/c now they're left out".
    They probably never should have changed the cap on Healing Rain in 25 mans, because it was inevitable that it would lead to other classes wanting the same thing on their spells. I guess they kind of had to if their design intent was to make Shaman superior on stacked fights, because increasing the base heal would make HR worth using on 1 target. Their only other options would have been to give Shaman a new spell/totem for stacked healing, or nerf stacked healing abilities for every other healer, but they took the easiest route out.

    I do hope they hold firm on not scaling every DR cap heal to different DR caps in 25 man though - it will only make healer balance a bigger mess. I don't even think having a 14 DR cap on Holy Radiance will do that much for Paladins anyway - the fights next tier seem to rarely have situations where you will hit the 14 target cap in the first place.

  2. #1042
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Well, they already broke that barrier with the special snowflake shaman treatment.
    He can't keep anything straight right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    They probably never should have changed the cap on Healing Rain in 25 mans, because it was inevitable that it would lead to other classes wanting the same thing on their spells. I guess they kind of had to if their design intent was to make Shaman superior on stacked fights, because increasing the base heal would make HR worth using on 1 target. Their only other options would have been to give Shaman a new spell/totem for stacked healing, or nerf stacked healing abilities for every other healer, but they took the easiest route out.

    I do hope they hold firm on not scaling every DR cap heal to different DR caps in 25 man though - it will only make healer balance a bigger mess. I don't even think having a 14 DR cap on Holy Radiance will do that much for Paladins anyway - the fights next tier seem to rarely have situations where you will hit the 14 target cap in the first place.
    Well as I said before, I don't think the 25m scaling should have happened period for any spell. But it is here now and they really only have themselves to blame now when they basically randomly pick and choose when to implement it and cause people to ask for it.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-07-13 at 10:01 PM.

  3. #1043
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Well, they already broke that barrier with the special snowflake shaman treatment.
    But, that is because the design intent for Shaman is that they are the dominant stacked healers. With how ridiculous they have let absorbs, passive healing and raid cooldowns get, that is probably the only way we would get to that point - unless they wanted to nerf every other healer's stacked healing capabilities.

  4. #1044
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Add in him saying that increasing the target cap for LoD would just "lead to priests, monks and druids wanting their AE heals uncapped as well b/c now they're left out".
    I'm not sure how I should respond back to his tweet, when I read it i was like uh...
    Last edited by Absyrd; 2013-07-13 at 10:08 PM.

  5. #1045
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absyrd View Post
    I'm not sure how I should respond back to his tweet, when I read it i was like uh...
    Yea because he wrote healers who already had their big healing cooldowns raised to the higher cap.

    Basically if you try to discuss Paladin issues with GC he asks for proof (logs are not proof btw!) and then says things like EF is a crutch and that we have been fine without EF in past expansions. It is just a joke at this point.

  6. #1046
    @DreZoHD They are the most common healer in 25 and second to Disc in 10s. Clearly someone is bringing them.

    @DreZoHD Maybe the EF nerf sends them from hero to zero but I sort of doubt it.
    Updated tweets

  7. #1047
    High Overlord Zarry's Avatar
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    He probabaly isnt tracking the top world guilds in the ptr if he's sayin that.. lol

  8. #1048
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarry View Post
    He probabaly isnt tracking the top world guilds in the ptr if he's sayin that.. lol
    I don't think he is tracking any of it.

  9. #1049
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarry View Post
    He probabaly isnt tracking the top world guilds in teh ptr if he's sayin that.. lol
    During the 5.3 PTR, Shaman repeatedly told him that buffing Tranq/Revival/DH and not giving HTT the same treatment would result in Shaman (who were barely treading water after the HR/ELW buff at that point) falling massively behind, and we were blown off with the "HTT is a talent and it will make it mandatory" excuse and told that Shaman were fine and 25 man Shaman didn't need buffs. We had to wait until the 5.4 PTR to finally convince them.

    Chances are, they will want to see actual live raid representation data and performance before making major changes.

  10. #1050
    High Overlord Zarry's Avatar
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    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 20 h

    To continue, we don't want every paladin playing like a Resto druid, and honestly neither should you paladins. EF shouldn't be mandatory.

    I dont get why they hate EF so much.. We used to be the only healer without a HoT EF was made to fix that problem.. We go trough a entire expansion and at the end it becomes the biggest problem ever in the paladins tool kit..

  11. #1051
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    During the 5.3 PTR, Shaman repeatedly told him that buffing Tranq/Revival/DH and not giving HTT the same treatment would result in Shaman (who were barely treading water after the HR/ELW buff at that point) falling massively behind, and we were blown off with the "HTT is a talent and it will make it mandatory" excuse and told that Shaman were fine and 25 man Shaman didn't need buffs. We had to wait until the 5.4 PTR to finally convince them.

    Chances are, they will want to see actual live raid representation data and performance before making major changes.
    Yea but we would rather not be trash for a whole patch and then get buffed when it is too late. I knew that was something that would likely happen, because they like to wait until they see the results live before making fixes most of the time.

  12. #1052
    @DreZoHD They are the most common healer in 25 and second to Disc in 10s. Clearly someone is bringing them.


    @DreZoHD Maybe the EF nerf sends them from hero to zero but I sort of doubt it.
    There it is ladies and gentleman. We're the most populous healer. Hence the constant nerfs recently.

    I would love to know what pool of players that he's looking at.
    Most popular healer in 25m raiding guilds? How do they accumulate these #s? Would love some more info.
    I see most top guilds bringing 2 priests and usually 1 paly. Just my $.02.

  13. #1053
    Quote Originally Posted by mcbubble View Post
    There it is ladies and gentleman. We're the most populous healer. Hence the constant nerfs recently.

    I would love to know what pool of players that he's looking at.
    Most popular healer in 25m raiding guilds? How do they accumulate these #s? Would love some more info.
    I see most top guilds bringing 2 priests and usually 1 paly. Just my $.02.
    It's easily obtainable from Raidbots

    25H:
    Pally - 23%
    Disc - 20%
    Shaman - 18%
    Druid - 15%
    Monk - 14%
    HPriest - 10%

    10H:
    Disc - 30%
    Pally - 24%
    Druid - 17%
    Shaman - 14%
    Monk - 13%
    HPriest - 3%

  14. #1054
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    It's easily obtainable from Raidbots

    25H:
    Pally - 23%
    Disc - 20%
    Shaman - 18%
    Druid - 15%
    Monk - 14%
    HPriest - 10%

    10H:
    Disc - 30%
    Pally - 24%
    Druid - 17%
    Shaman - 14%
    Monk - 13%
    HPriest - 3%
    Quite frankly if output numbers doesn't count on raidbots, then anything else shouldn't either for GC.

  15. #1055
    Judging from those numbers, shouldn't Blizzard buff Mistweavers? (they don't need buffs, but if they buff/nerf based on representation then it only makes sense)

  16. #1056
    The guy is delusional.

  17. #1057
    GC is just so out of touch with his own game its unreal. He thinks the increase to healing rain is fine because shamans needs to be superior healers when stacked up... I mean really?



    This is my guilds enchancement shamans healing done from two weeks ago on the last phase of Ra den. My napkin math tells me he is doing 320k hps from healing rain and AG alone (no overhealing) over the couse of 142 seconds. Now imagine a 233% buff to that, you are looking at 750k sustained hps from a fucking enchancement shaman. Almost as much sustained hps as our monk BURSTS when using revival.

    This is the sort of thing that does not need testing on PTR, it is going to be so retardedly overpowered you may aswell run 4 enchancement shamans and a disc priest to keep your entire raid alive.

  18. #1058
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Judging from those numbers, shouldn't Blizzard buff Mistweavers? (they don't need buffs, but if they buff/nerf based on representation then it only makes sense)
    Exactly my point - you can't go off of these numbers.
    What's more to the point - how does raidbots gather these numbers? It's a total representation of those that have completed at least one boss (I believe).
    That's a horrible sample size if that's the case. Please do some standard deviations and choose those that are progressed as opposed to the total # of healers.

    That btw is just raiders. Please also show the # of holy paladins in arenas. I guarantee that number plumets.

  19. #1059
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    I hope you're joking. CB has a <1 sec cast time and SCK ticks every .5 seconds... Both are "on demand" and may as well be instant for all of the purpose they provide.
    Still you can't treat Chi Burst as Prayer of Healing since all you need to do for PoH to be effective is pressing a button on a frame. Chi Burst needs you to be behind 6 players when AoE damages occurs. SCK's ticks heals 10k~ each, needless to say you need a full effective duration of SCK for it to be worth using, it's not that every tick of SCK top peoples up.

  20. #1060
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Judging from those numbers, shouldn't Blizzard buff Mistweavers? (they don't need buffs, but if they buff/nerf based on representation then it only makes sense)
    Mistweaver representation is expected to be lower, because it's a new class, and there are not as many people that want to play it or can play it as well as the Vanilla classes. In T11, MW representation was like 8%, and it has been steadily climbing as more people learn the class. To a lesser extent, Druid representation should also be lower, because the class has 4 specs, dividing the player pool into more buckets.

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