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  1. #101
    Grunt Modulo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorant View Post
    Healing Tide Totem? I suggest you read the notes more carefully. It was not buffed at all.
    I did indeed misread the notes, but it's wrong to say that it hasn't been buffed. It has been buffed for non-resto shamans.

  2. #102
    I think peeps need to relax a little, once they're done looking at talents, which is all they've seem to look at so far. They'll do a tuning pass on everything else, it's way too early to get worked up over this, yeah it sucks atm but if they're not providing any feedback as to why they're doing this I would think that the obvious reason would be that they have more changes coming.

    There's a whole lot of time between now and release of 5.4, who knows what can happen. Disc hasn't even been touched yet and they are the clear op healer at current, where we are getting nerfs. Logically you would think there is still plenty of changes to come, just chill out, take a deep breath and wait it out. It's far from over.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Gags View Post
    I think peeps need to relax a little, once they're done looking at talents, which is all they've seem to look at so far. They'll do a tuning pass on everything else, it's way too early to get worked up over this, yeah it sucks atm but if they're not providing any feedback as to why they're doing this I would think that the obvious reason would be that they have more changes coming.

    There's a whole lot of time between now and release of 5.4, who knows what can happen. Disc hasn't even been touched yet and they are the clear op healer at current, where we are getting nerfs. Logically you would think there is still plenty of changes to come, just chill out, take a deep breath and wait it out. It's far from over.
    You are like those people who say that x game is just in beta and we should wait for the release of x game before judging it. If we dont make a fuss about it now chances are nothing will be changed for 5.4.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Aladya View Post
    I've done a bit of testing on the PTR

    EF initial hit lowered by 30%, WoG not affected
    No mastery shield from EF
    No mastery shield from Light's Hammer
    No mastery shield from Execution Sentence

    Mastery is still the same 480 rating to reach 1%

    Overall the entire changes account to ~30-35% nerf to Holy Paladin Healing.
    No compensation.
    Without wanting to call you a 'poor' paladin, far from it. Is a 30-35%~ reduction in your healing hyberbole or actually going to happen? I'm not 'up to date' on Paladin healing breakdowns, but what you're essentially saying is it's around the same nerf MWs took (at the start of the expansion) on their SCK (reduced by 33%) and Renewing Mists (reduced by 33%) which if I may say so ruined MWs for the rest of t14. We simply were not competitive.

    Where do you think you'll get compensation?

  5. #105
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gags View Post
    I think peeps need to relax a little, once they're done looking at talents, which is all they've seem to look at so far. They'll do a tuning pass on everything else, it's way too early to get worked up over this, yeah it sucks atm but if they're not providing any feedback as to why they're doing this I would think that the obvious reason would be that they have more changes coming.

    There's a whole lot of time between now and release of 5.4, who knows what can happen. Disc hasn't even been touched yet and they are the clear op healer at current, where we are getting nerfs. Logically you would think there is still plenty of changes to come, just chill out, take a deep breath and wait it out. It's far from over.
    You know, I kinda hope so. I hope you're right. But these changes suggest that Devs simply have no fucking clue while they are doing (and Disc has been touched, they are getting buffed). I'd like to put faith in the Devs.

    But how the fuck do you design taking a talent effectively equal to a druid not taking a superpowered version of Glyph of Regrowth? Basically a trap talent worse than a Glyph of Illumination (thought they learned their lesson from this), and it's a talent?!

    That and the mastery gutting which is just not the solution to the problem at all, since now given that all healers have major absorbs, we basically have no triage utility other than Light of Dawn and some single target heals. HP Generators are so weak they might as well not be there, that's only going to get worse with other healers scaling next tier.

    Yeah... though over a shower I just decided, if these changes go through (That's actually quite a big IF, I honestly don't think they will, but you never know ) I'm done with the carrot-and-stick reroll game, I'm just done with this game.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-20 at 11:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Without wanting to call you a 'poor' paladin, far from it. Is a 30-35%~ reduction in your healing hyberbole or actually going to happen?
    Read the changes, look at your healing breakdown, and you tell me. Aladya sounds about right. Perhaps a bit less adjusting for new play, but basically if you then factor in other healers and them getting buffed, you're basically worse than a buffbot. Might as well go Ret.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-06-20 at 11:34 PM.

  6. #106
    WTF no words...... i just don't know what to say. They can't be so dumb to patch this to the PTR without any buffs can they? Are they trying to make us insult GC on twitter or what? i just do not understand....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gags View Post
    I think peeps need to relax a little, once they're done looking at talents, which is all they've seem to look at so far. They'll do a tuning pass on everything else, it's way too early to get worked up over this, yeah it sucks atm but if they're not providing any feedback as to why they're doing this I would think that the obvious reason would be that they have more changes coming.

    There's a whole lot of time between now and release of 5.4, who knows what can happen. Disc hasn't even been touched yet and they are the clear op healer at current, where we are getting nerfs. Logically you would think there is still plenty of changes to come, just chill out, take a deep breath and wait it out. It's far from over.
    Why the fuck would you post half patch notes that just consist of nerfs. You know the players are not going to respond well to it. It makes no sense to me. And to be honest it's never! to early when they do "radical" changes like this. To me it seems that if you complain enough and loudly you will get a reponse/explanation or even changes possibly. Just look at the warlocks outcry... it's early in 5.4 but they started a virtual riot tbh...
    Last edited by Narsilon; 2013-06-20 at 11:41 PM.

  7. #107
    High Overlord Zarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Without wanting to call you a 'poor' paladin, far from it. Is a 30-35%~ reduction in your healing hyberbole or actually going to happen? I'm not 'up to date' on Paladin healing breakdowns, but what you're essentially saying is it's around the same nerf MWs took (at the start of the expansion) on their SCK (reduced by 33%) and Renewing Mists (reduced by 33%) which if I may say so ruined MWs for the rest of t14. We simply were not competitive.

    Where do you think you'll get compensation?
    Its exactly because we dont wanna get ruined that we are trying to make something happen..

  8. #108
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarry View Post
    Its exactly because we dont wanna get ruined that we are trying to make something happen..
    Which is funny, seems we're so shit even the crying monks who typically come here asking for nerfs are gone. Guess even they feel pity now.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Which is funny, seems we're so shit even the crying monks who typically come here asking for nerfs are gone. Guess even they feel pity now.
    The nerfs that happened in 5.3, honestly, were enough. On top of buffs to Resto Shamans/Druids healing is looking to be "in a good place". Now Paladins are getting, effectively, shat on and Disc is getting more and more buffed. Bewildering. Expecting to see PW:S cost 100% more mana and Atonement nerfed to 50% healing otherwise next tier may as well be "bring 3 Discs to cover raid in PW:S and then whatever to heal tanks". That's not going to be fun for anyone.

  10. #110
    So druid or shaman? Teasing, I honestly never really liked the way eternal flame, it just seemed to contradict the previous play style of Paladin but it wasn't big enough to deter me from the spec..I would love using alternative talents, but there really aren't any other practical options even with the change, removing the mastery from the periodic healing is just really scary though.

    EDIT: after reading through some of the dungeon journal notes I see Sacred Shield being worthwhile for some mechanics for sure, though I will actually have to play with them to be certain...I am also curious if Sac Shield is going to be something that would save someone if it would kill them from 40% and they were hit for 50% or if it would just be something that would proc if they survived being reduced below 30%
    Last edited by Sellinz; 2013-06-20 at 11:46 PM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    You are like those people who say that x game is just in beta and we should wait for the release of x game before judging it. If we dont make a fuss about it now chances are nothing will be changed for 5.4.
    No I'm not saying don't make a fuss, but if we're not receiving any meaningful discussion back from the devs about it then I would assume there is more changes to come. It's just simply too early to declare doom and gloom and that pally's will be the worst healer in 5.4.

    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    You know, I kinda hope so. I hope you're right. But these changes suggest that Devs simply have no fucking clue while they are doing (and Disc has been touched, they are getting buffed). I'd like to put faith in the Devs.

    But how the fuck do you design taking a talent effectively equal to a druid not taking a superpowered version of Glyph of Regrowth? Basically a trap talent worse than a Glyph of Illumination (thought they learned their lesson from this), and it's a talent?!

    That and the mastery gutting which is just not the solution to the problem at all, since now given that all healers have major absorbs, we basically have no triage utility other than Light of Dawn and some single target heals. HP Generators are so weak they might as well not be there, that's only going to get worse with other healers scaling next tier.

    Yeah... though over a shower I just decided, if these changes go through (That's actually quite a big IF, I honestly don't think they will, but you never know ) I'm done with the carrot-and-stick reroll game, I'm just done with this game.[COLOR="red"]
    And that's even more of a reason to think that there'll be more, it seems outrageous they can buff druids to the extent they have, where in recent changes they were already on a level playing field with us. I believe there has to be more to come and since we are only a short time into 5.4 PTR that's what we have to believe. If it's 2 weeks out form launch and nothing has been added then I would jump up and down and really let the devs know about it, but right now, it's simply too early to tell.

    Just on the disc comment, there has to be more changes coming for them, they are clearly the best healer at the moment with only a few fights other heals match them, not beat them mind you. Otherwise they tear shit up and are clear winners. It obviously can't be left as is.

    Give it a little bit, I guess, and hope that there is more to come. If not, scream as loud as you possible can.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-21 at 10:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    The nerfs that happened in 5.3, honestly, were enough. On top of buffs to Resto Shamans/Druids healing is looking to be "in a good place". Now Paladins are getting, effectively, shat on and Disc is getting more and more buffed. Bewildering. Expecting to see PW:S cost 100% more mana and Atonement nerfed to 50% healing otherwise next tier may as well be "bring 3 Discs to cover raid in PW:S and then whatever to heal tanks". That's not going to be fun for anyone.
    That's it right there, any normal person can see the issue here, I'm sure they (devs) do too. Just like I'm sure there's stuff happening in the background and future builds will flesh everything out more. With all changes of current for 5.4, you would have disc even further ahead, then druids, monks and shamans and then us in last spot by what would seem a large margin. It just seems to crazy to think that this is all we've seen on the matter. There has to be more changes.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Narsilon View Post
    Why the fuck would you post half patch notes that just consist of nerfs. You know the players are not going to respond well to it. It makes no sense to me. And to be honest it's never! to early when they do "radical" changes like this. To me it seems that if you complain enough and loudly you will get a reponse/explanation or even changes possibly. Just look at the warlocks outcry... it's early in 5.4 but they started a virtual riot tbh...
    Just to note, these aren't patch notes, they're data-mined changes from the current PTR build

    I do agree though, everyone needs to make a fuss about this or nothing will get changed, they only do so much internal testing and they can't easily test a full 10-25 man raid on several fights, so its up to us to give them some feedback

  13. #113

  14. #114
    That's all good and well but nerfing our mastery then telling us not to panic about the mastery numbers on our set bonus is just weird.
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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Just to note, these aren't patch notes, they're data-mined changes from the current PTR build

    I do agree though, everyone needs to make a fuss about this or nothing will get changed, they only do so much internal testing and they can't easily test a full 10-25 man raid on several fights, so its up to us to give them some feedback
    Oke not patch notes that's my bad. But they know it gets data-mined.... Unless this is some sick experiment to see how people will respond. What's the point of enabling the PTR if they aren't ready for testing the patch. Why even push these changes to PTR. Keep them on the dev server till your ready to show the complete changes for a class. There is no point in going on there and testing the current changes.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    That's all good and well but nerfing our mastery then telling us not to panic about the mastery numbers on our set bonus is just weird.
    Oh I agree wholeheartedly, in fact I've never been a fan of GC's tone with this type of outcry. Instead of getting just a semblance of explanation we get talked down to.

  17. #117
    If the numbers Aladya has mentioned and with GC adding that Paladins will be compensated for the EF flame nerf, I wonder what he has in mind. Maybe going back to a 4 sec Holy Shock for a start? An increase in range for Holy Radiance? Either way we would need buffs in several area's to 'make up' for the hit we'd take from this imo.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Narsilon View Post
    Oke not patch notes that's my bad. But they know it gets data-mined.... Unless this is some sick experiment to see how people will respond. What's the point of enabling the PTR if they aren't ready for testing the patch. Why even push these changes to PTR. Keep them on the dev server till your ready to show the complete changes for a class. There is no point in going on there and testing the current changes.
    The patch notes are up and the nerf are there ,,inc. mastery no longer procs from ticks

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    That's all good and well but nerfing our mastery then telling us not to panic about the mastery numbers on our set bonus is just weird.
    It's all in their plan, nerf our mastery so hard that our 4 piece is appealing to us!

    It's genius!

  20. #120
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    More useful feedback at this stage "I like/dislike the new version of the talent." Less useful "ZOMG 30% NERF!"
    For fucking real? Ok...

    I dislike the new version of Eternal Flame and in fact dislike that any talent should have a trade-off component to not taking a talent. The trade-off should, pure and simple, be with the other talents in the row. In fact, I believe that Eternal Flame HoT should simply be a baseline addition to WoG for Holy only, with a new talent (such as one I suggested earlier) replacing it. My idea was a random single target heal, to go with a proactive (and in the past, reactive) single target talent.

    I dislike the new vision of mastery. While I agree Eternal Flame HoT can be toned down in potency and duration (especially if it were made baseline), the mastery has been essential to Holy's raid healing especially in cases of longer sustained damage where Light of Dawn is too short-term. Not feeling like being relegated to tank healing bots with a light of dawn (which only heals 6 people in 25 man still) being the only source of raid healing whatsoever.

    The simple fact is that mastery + HoTs have been essential to our proactive healing toolkit for the expansion, with Light of Dawn being available for burst damage. As all healers are being shifted toward being more proactive, even shamans, making us purely reactive again is a big step backwards. I can agree perhaps all of proactive healing needs a look at (especially the disc priest, who seems to only be getting buffed further?!), but that change should be for a new expansion, not the final tier of the current one.

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