[Holy] Patch 5.4 PTR - Changes Discussion

**nightfalls** · 2013-06-20, 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by Absintheminded

I would agree that Judgment isn't the best idea, I mean the whole idea of haste reducing Judgement and Crusader Strike but not a damn thing that actually benefits Holy directly is fucked. But I would use Judgement in the same capacity that I've been using CS, not every damn GCD is filled with casting a heal. I would weave it in and when I do need a big heal it will be practically instant and maybe hit for 300k+. Can't see how that isn't useful.

Why not just bank some HP instead? Especially since after all you took SH and not the new shitty EF that has a nerfed initial heal...

**Blash** · 2013-06-20, 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by Xs

Nice to see them finally taking the MS off of DP, we should be able to drop more Spirit now and be a little less fight dependant, although SoI is still going to play a factor in that.

They missed the biggest issue with DP: the fact that we are the only healers with a regen mechanism that doesn't scale with gear. DP stays the same from T14 to T16 while Rapture / Resurgence / Innervate (5.4) and Mana tea scales with Crit or Spirit...

**Freia** · 2013-06-20, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by Absintheminded

I don't play in 25m, so my thinking is geared to 10m. But having said that single target healing in 10m is no more lofty a goal than tab + EF healing in 25m.

Are you serious? Single target healing in 25m? You should probably actually play it before typing stuff like that. In the time it takes you to get off the single target heal or you know set it up to be a low cast time/instant in 25m, splash heals from the other healing classes have taken care the healing that spell would have done.

**Absintheminded** · 2013-06-20, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by voidspark

Why not just bank some HP instead? Especially since after all you took SH and not the new shitty EF that has a nerfed initial heal...

I don't plan on not using CS for HP, to me that melee is more important for mana throughout long, healing intensive fights, so if I try SH it will still be priority based, HS > CS > Judgement.

---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 11:18 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Freia

Are you serious? Single target healing in 25m? You should probably actually play it before typing stuff like that. In the time it takes you to get off the single target heal or you know set it up to be a low cast time/instant in 25m, splash heals from the other healing classes have taken care the healing that spell would have done.

YOu misread what you bolded, please go back and read it and not be a dick next time you respond. Ah fuck it, I'll RETYPE it:

SINGLE TARGET healing in TEN MAN is no more lofty a goal than EF RAID healing in TWENTY FIVE MAN.

FFS. I didn't come here to argue with people, everything I've posted is about taking an objective look at it.

-Let's not be rude now. Maintain a helpful and friendly environment, please and thanks! -Krekko

**Freia** · 2013-06-20, 03:24 AM

I did misread and I am sorry for it, but you should probably take your own advice.

**Absintheminded** · 2013-06-20, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by Freia

I did misread and I am sorry for it, but you should probably take your own advice.

Not going to defend my self further, the absurdity of your request is reason enough for me to laugh it off and forget about it.

Deleted · 2013-06-20, 03:34 AM

So basically this change makes holy pallys stronger in 25m, and weaker in 10m, where healing is already quite intense.

Sad panda.

**Freia** · 2013-06-20, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by Absintheminded

Not going to defend my self further, the absurdity of your request is reason enough for me to laugh it off and forget about it.

Mistakes happen but I didn't degenerate into childish name calling and increased use of caps.

Originally Posted by Proberly

So basically this change makes holy pallys stronger in 25m, and weaker in 10m, where healing is already quite intense.

Sad panda.

Doesn't make them stronger in 25m at all.

**Xnon22** · 2013-06-20, 04:35 AM

Selfless Healer should work like it did in 5.3 ptr,procs of holy shock

and holy fudge,30% nerf ??really? i think thats a data mining error,they might nerf it by 30% for prot only cuz the healing will be absurd.

i dunno what to say...holy cant use the new eternal flame in pvp,they removed sacred shield((2min cd is just to long)),selfless healer is shit

ret is basicly the same,selfless healer is just too good,cant be replaced with this

they need to give Holy Shield to all specs baseline ,or atleast holy ,we gonna compete with holy priests in 3s!

**spekkio7** · 2013-06-20, 05:15 AM

god, i wish i could understand blizzard logic sometimes. as others have said mediocre set bonuses and now more nerfs. other healers are getting buffed and have better set bonuses so i think it's reasonable to believe that we are going to end up as average to poor healers compared to the other classes.

i remember maybe GC saying that they might make HS a 4 second CD in the next major patch and was really looking forward to that, but instead we get this.

**Vathius** · 2013-06-20, 05:35 AM

I dont want to have to judge all the time

**monikasun88** · 2013-06-20, 06:27 AM

The 30% nerf to the initial heal to EF is gonna suck but take a look at how much of the initial heals in your logs is overhealing and you should see that the nerf isn't too bad. I was honestly expecting a nerf to the HoT component coupled with a buff to some of our other casting spells. But now I am not longer expecting anything.

**nightfalls** · 2013-06-20, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by monikasun88

The 30% nerf to the initial heal to EF is gonna suck but take a look at how much of the initial heals in your logs is overhealing and you should see that the nerf isn't too bad. I was honestly expecting a nerf to the HoT component coupled with a buff to some of our other casting spells. But now I am not longer expecting anything.

No, the HoT itself is largely overheal and stabilizer, the initial heal is what will triage a raid and also what will heal the group in PvP. Yeah, it's bad. I was expecting a tick nerf or a nerf to the mastery generated by the ticks, but this is stupid.

**Pasture** · 2013-06-20, 06:45 AM

We were fearful they'd hit EF but I just don't understand this. Was the direct heal ever a problem? The problem we had was EF was just too attractive. But rather than come up with a proper solution they have nerfed EF to the extent it will now feel like you're actually weakening a class ability but then also nerfed the talent you would have taken instead to stop you falling back on that. Utterly ridiculous.

I don't know whether there are any easy solutions to this mess now (we just seem utterly fucked for 5.4) but giving Holy SS baseline too would be something to compensate. They can't just give EF a massive nerf and completely remove SS and expect we'll just be ok? Surely?

Out of curiosity if it stays like this what will people take? SH seems pointless. EF seems almost dangerous now since you're taking a massive chunk off our main burst heal. SS is just bad but at least you don't have to harm your healing to use it?

Side note: With the SH change what is the point of FoL being there if DL is there now? Why would you use FoL over DL if both were free?

Deleted · 2013-06-20, 07:00 AM

The sad thing is we will still be forced into EF the other 2 spells are still not worth it.. So in the end the only thing they did was flat out nerf our healing and on the other hand you see every other healer class getting plenty of buffs..

Sure IH was too strong but they should have changed the HoT and not the initial heal.. I just dont get it.. They have to test this kanda thing.. They have to know how bad its going to nerf us.. I dont get y they make this kinda retarded solutions..

Deleted · 2013-06-20, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Pasture

Side note: With the SH change what is the point of FoL being there if DL is there now? Why would you use FoL over DL if both were free?

You wouldn't unless say, you had just got the killing blow guaranteed crit FoL -.-

Deleted · 2013-06-20, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Modulo

Also irked at the Shaman buffs and even more haste on the Disc 4-set. Don't get me wrong, they [resto] deserve/need it, but at this rate as zuluslayer said we're dropping like a stone.

What shaman buffs?

Conductivity? Won't matter much, at least in 10 man, where the problem is not the duration.

Healing Tide Totem? I suggest you read the notes more carefully. It was not buffed at all.

ON TOPIC: I think lot will still change before live. I still think the community is overreacting a bit. I can not remember a single patch where holy paladins were utter bullshit and not taken. This patch was not that good, but no, we are not bottom of the charts. I also think there is too much focus on HPS, however, many guilds are taking healers based on healing meters because any other measurement is really hard. I do agree that this will reduce our burst healing capabilities which will eventually lead to take some other talent just to get rid of EF.

I think things will turn out just fine like they always have. 5.2 PTR forums were full of mage QQ and that no one will ever take mage to progress raids. What happened? Indeed.

**Daniie** · 2013-06-20, 08:18 AM

I'm not particularly pleased about the changes besides the DP buff so if they stay like this on live I'll just deal with them and carry on. If we keep getting fucked around with till 5.4 goes almost live then I'm strongly considering swapping mains with my Resto Druid.

Again though absorbs are still the flavour of MoP so who knows.

**Kyuuseishu** · 2013-06-20, 08:18 AM