[Holy] Patch 5.4 PTR - Changes Discussion

[chairmanmao]

I tested Protectors on my Holy Paladin, abused the selfless healer bug and was way behind on healing to a disc priest. Cool spec.

[Medario]

Would it be possible to make EF refresh the mastery shield, without adding onto it? That seems like it might be a good compromise between full mastery/no mastery at all on the hot portion.

Doubt it. Even though it looses some of it´s trength already to the 5.3
What I´ve read on a blog as Suggestion was kinda interesting too, to make WoG/EF 3 HP spells as for the other specs . That way you ll barely get past a 4 Person EF except running DP/HA, but I assume that´ still gonna be to much of the old style for.

[Lucyrotten]

I tested Protectors and Dark Shaman both and it was pretty demoralizing. I definitely felt like I would have been a greater asset sitting on a mammoth outside the instance portal.

I abused the SH bug on Dark Shaman to quickly spam people up while they were derping around in the bad but even if that was a thing it's pretty awful. I switched back to EF and could maintain something that was only moderately bad as the healer with the melee boss out in Kenya with the tank and was mostly successful in keeping us alive (using SS would have likely been better) but losing the initial heal on EF hurt real bad.

I'm trying to maintain a positive attitude pending the next ptr release so we can see more what they have in mind for us but playing a flat broken spec is the opposite of fun.

[Freia]

Lets just hope they have a new PTR build soon. Kind of ridiculous they let this build go through for raid testing when they already said they were reverting some things(base EF heal).

[Truesword]

Given we get spoken down to by GC when we communicate the issues combined with these drastic changes I say we all petition Blizzard directly for GC to be fired. When the community bands together and asserts itself is when we wil be taken seriously.

[Krekko]

Given we get spoken down to by GC when we communicate the issues combined with these drastic changes I say we all petition Blizzard directly for GC to be fired. When the community bands together and asserts itself is when we wil be taken seriously.

No, we're not talking about how one might want GC to be fired. Keep the thread on topic, and feel free to talk about possible applicable questions (serious) to the Q/A.

Remember;

• These should be questions about MoP and Patch 5.4, not future expansions or far off changes.
• General Tank/DPS/Healing Role questions are fine, but no class specific questions please.

[Freia]

No, we're not talking about how one might want GC to be fired. Keep the thread on topic, and feel free to talk about possible applicable questions (serious) to the Q/A.

Remember;

"no class specific questions please."

Despite that I did put in a question. I ask why they are so focused on making a tier that favors HoT healing over giving all types of healer a chance to shine. Doubt they will be answered though. And saying other tiers favored absorbs so they should focus on HoTs next tier isn't a good reason.

[Truesword]

I would say then that the developers should not start a war against the spec if they aren't prepared to fight.

[Kyuuseishu]

I would say then that the developers should not start a war against the spec if they aren't prepared to fight.

It's early PTR calm the fuck down talking about "war" on holy paladins, we should see patch notes after the first testing so wait until then before inciting war.

[mcbubble]

I haven't played on the PTR, but I just watched Affiniti's stream and it looks like the holy paly was keeping up with the disc priest and resto druid...maybe the sky isn't falling?

[Deleted]

I haven't played on the PTR, but I just watched Affiniti's stream and it looks like the holy paly was keeping up with the disc priest and resto druid...maybe the sky isn't falling?

Immersus 10 man normal has literally no damage whatsoever(specially after he splits once or twice). Yes, we are capable healers on encounters with no damage whatosever. Check the difference @ Fallen Protectors.

[Lumineux]

I haven't played on the PTR, but I just watched Affiniti's stream and it looks like the holy paly was keeping up with the disc priest and resto druid...maybe the sky isn't falling?

It's easy to keep up if you're abusing the current Selfless Healer bug and spamming instant, free Divine Lights + Holy shield being given to every spec. Without these bugs though, pallies are still pretty shit.

[Fashionstarz]

Seriously can't wait for the next PTR build, this is getting old. Paladin is not only weak atm, it's also very boring and every spell I cast fell like its shit.

[luc54]

Any idea what talent the BL holy paladin is using for the testing? Is it the nerfed EF or sacred shield. I did some testing earlier on immeersus but it was such poor fight with only 3 ppl on range and some monk using 4 set and nicking all the heals.

[Tonic]

bosses are fun so far. immerseus had little damage to heal,so it was really easy to kill. This fight will be easier in 25 man as it will be easier to divide up the groups to five.
this boss is like tsulong, there is a small phase every time you get the bosses health to zero. you need to kill the adds and also heal the adds.
http://i.imgur.com/KcaHCwn.jpg crappy kill

nazgrims damage was a bit awkward, managed to kill it but i doubt it would be easy to kill as this one if we didn't use the selfless healer thingy.
here is a screenshot for healing: http://i.imgur.com/amzO2cy.jpg

[nightfalls]

Any idea what talent the BL holy paladin is using for the testing? Is it the nerfed EF or sacred shield. I did some testing earlier on immeersus but it was such poor fight with only 3 ppl on range and some monk using 4 set and nicking all the heals.

Igy was using EF for at least one of the pulls based on his screenshot. I can see no reason why anyone would use Sacred Shield (the soon to be removed version), 1) because it will be removed in live, 2) because it's worse than either of the other talents anyway.

[Deleted]

I realise this might be highly wishful thinking but wouldn't replacing the judgement requirement with casting HS for holy pallies only make SH slightly more even with the other talents. Keep the mastery nerf in for EF as we can all agree in its current form it is pretty OP but make it tick for a slightly higher amount but drastically reduce how long it ticks for (say down to 18 seconds so that it can be used every 3 holy power or you can have 3 weaker ones rolling at the same time) and instead of having to judge on CD we can use HS on CD which we would use anyway. Much more user friendly instead of having to use up 3 GCDs to get a free heal every 18 seconds which may or may not go to overhealing (unlikely I know but still). Or just go back to having a mana gain with Judgement. Just not to the same extent we got it back in Cata.. Blizzard seem to think the answer is to give pretty useless buffs to useless talents and nerf the best by far into the ground. Instead why not give a useful buff to some bad talents and nerf the overpowered one to a point where it effectively makes all three equal, situational and preference based.

[mcbubble]

Not sure if this is a paly alt (sounds more like a shaman), but someone on the wow forums kinda sums it up:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6556?page=3#44
All of this talk about 'Obsession with HPS' is rediculous.
All top guilds - ALL OF THEM, will take the healers that are strongest - AKA the healers with the best THROUGHPUT and with the best cooldowns.

The paladin 'QQ' is justified. What do they bring to the table? A devo aura? Get a tank or dps to bring that. From what I've seen in the PTR, they definitely don't bring any throughput and they're getting outhealed by the tanks. A guild will not bring them for a 'tank healer' because other healers will be way more efficient for that. The druid living seed buff alone will make them insane tank healers.

I don't understand the balancing that's occurring right now. Disc is by far the strongest of all the healers. Why they're absorbs aren't getting nerfed is beyond me.

Shammies need love, and paladins need rework.
Druids will be God mode this patch.
So:
Disc/Druid -> MW Monk -> Shammy -> H Paly

---------- Post added 2013-06-26 at 03:16 PM ----------

bosses are fun so far. immerseus had little damage to heal,so it was really easy to kill. This fight will be easier in 25 man as it will be easier to divide up the groups to five.
this boss is like tsulong, there is a small phase every time you get the bosses health to zero. you need to kill the adds and also heal the adds.
http://i.imgur.com/KcaHCwn.jpg crappy kill

nazgrims damage was a bit awkward, managed to kill it but i doubt it would be easy to kill as this one if we didn't use the selfless healer thingy.
here is a screenshot for healing: http://i.imgur.com/amzO2cy.jpg

Wait a second - were you getting outhealed by a tank?

[nightfalls]

All of this talk about 'Obsession with HPS' is rediculous. All top guilds - ALL OF THEM, will take the healers that are strongest - AKA the healers with the best THROUGHPUT and with the best cooldowns.

It annoys the piss out of me when our issues are dismissed (including by some of my guildmates, not naming names) as "paladin QQ."

For the record, I looked back on my old subscribed threads and found one: "Is the resto druid whine justified" from 5.1. My answer in there and to this day: Yes, it was. Regardless of the "heroes" who said that "their druids were fine" and it was "just QQ" it was plain back then and obvious now that druids needed a lot of rework, and they got it (only about 3-4 patches later than they should). I'm not partial to balance just because it's "my class"

We're in the same boat now guys. Perhaps "HPS" doesn't matter but ability to handle mechanics does, this tier is "all about dem HoTs" and given our only HoT (from a talent) instead of being made baseline is just nerfed is putting us out of place for this tier.

Paladins need a lot more direct, targeted proactive healing besides a single talent on a row of 3. Obviously if you put an essential element of any healer toolkit as a talent, that talent will be taken no matter what! The real solution is to baseline that element, and replace the talent with actual talents which are supposed to be of situational use.

It's a no-brainer that SS is usable by all three specs (were it not for eternal flame for holy), but EF is mandatory for Holy and bad for Prot/Ret... so it needs to disappear from that spot. be Holy-only, and replaced by a talent that is good for all 3 specs. I suggested one earlier this thread that would truly compete with the other two, and be situational - with advantages and disadvantages compared to the other two depending on circumstance.

[Absintheminded]

I really wish they would just come out and freaking tell us the dffierent ideas they are talking about, otherwise it's just this silly game of back and forths every PTR build and patch release where we get surprized by buffs/nerfs/mechanics changes and fill up twitter and forums until Dev's make more knee-jerk changes.

If they were more open about this, we (the subject matter experts) could discuss changes (hopefully constructively) before they happen and work with the dev's in smoothing out changes that are actually effective.