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  1. #701
    Epic! Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paliniu View Post
    you don't use LP over LH or vice versa. each ability is better than the other on certain fights. LP for more spread out fights. My decision wasn't final, which is why I was expressing my concern here. Yes, haste is pretty bad, but in this patch, haste is good for the fact that it gives these trinkets more proc chance since they don't have any internal cd. Lights hammer is good as a preemptive heal, like when you know huge aoe is gonna happen like on iron qon to have a little bubble ready for everyone stacked. That was my biggest concern that that would be taken away, because as it is, LH doesn't heal that strong, and having IH with it makes it damn good. I already stack mastery, so even if EF and LH didn't receive the mastery benefit, after discussing all of it here, I would still stay mastery. Thanks for the assistance.
    And my point was taking IH off of EF is going to effect us a hell of lot more than them taking it off of LH because you stated you were more worried about it being taken off LH. And yes taking it off of LH would weaken the talent which would in turn put points in favor of Holy Prism.

  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    And my point was taking IH off of EF is going to effect us a hell of lot more than them taking it off of LH because you stated you were more worried about it being taken off LH. And yes taking it off of LH would weaken the talent which would in turn put points in favor of Holy Prism.
    Can't see LH outplaying prism much in new raid anyway. Not much stacking to do.

  3. #703
    The Lightbringer nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubalicious View Post
    If the game went live as-is I would sit myself for all heroic progression unless BoP/Purity was overpowered and our 2 rets weren't enough to cover the particular mechanic, or there was an 8 heal fight. I suppose that's the advantage of having 8 healers on the roster. I honestly wouldn't feel that compelled to reroll for the final tier of the expansion unless I was directly asked to.
    Right, it's either go Disc (which would still be better than playing your main) or better yet, get another Disc and sit the tier out. Might as well unsub the game while at it.

    [edit] Don't get me wrong, I fully do believe and have faith that at least on paper, Blizzard will buff us.

    Of course, on paper having some bullshit like +50% increased Daybreak, T16 2pc buffed to +20%, etc. will equal nothing at all, but I don't think they really care.

  4. #704
    High Overlord Zarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Of course, on paper having some bullshit like +50% increased Daybreak, T16 2pc buffed to +20%, etc. will equal nothing at all, but I don't think they really care.
    ^
    This so much this..

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Right, it's either go Disc (which would still be better than playing your main) or better yet, get another Disc and sit the tier out. Might as well unsub the game while at it.

    [edit] Don't get me wrong, I fully do believe and have faith that at least on paper, Blizzard will buff us.

    Of course, on paper having some bullshit like +50% increased Daybreak, T16 2pc buffed to +20%, etc. will equal nothing at all, but I don't think they really care.
    For all the doom and gloom posted in this thread, I do agree. They obviously have plans for the spec (Holy has NEVER just been unviable for heroic progression in any tier).

    They need to hold off on announcing any nerfs until they have the compensation ready at the same time though. Nerf, announce that there will be compensation, nerf and nerf again without said compensation a month later is not the way to go.

    If the current PTR build were to go live? Yeah, I would just unsub until next expansion. I don't have the legendary questline up to date on my MW or Disc and I'm not going through all that again (also I just love playing paladin). I don't believe it will come to that though.
    Last edited by Flaring; 2013-07-09 at 09:30 PM.

  6. #706
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Right, it's either go Disc (which would still be better than playing your main) or better yet, get another Disc and sit the tier out. Might as well unsub the game while at it.

    [edit] Don't get me wrong, I fully do believe and have faith that at least on paper, Blizzard will buff us.

    Of course, on paper having some bullshit like +50% increased Daybreak, T16 2pc buffed to +20%, etc. will equal nothing at all, but I don't think they really care.
    Yeah this is all theoretical and I don't see it ever coming down to a situation where Holy is literally not viable for heroic progression, but every day and PTR patch that goes by we all get a bit more nervous/concerned and maybe a bit more miserable lol

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by Aladya View Post
    Probably quitting the game until next expansion,depends how things will turn out in the next 2 weeks. I play at an extremely competitive level though.
    this saddens me =(

  8. #708
    Bloodsail Admiral Elovan's Avatar
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    Set bonuses got buffed, about time.

    Item - Paladin T16 Holy 2P Bonus Infusion of Light also increases the healing done by Holy Light, Divine Light, and Holy Radiance by 25% (up from 10%).
    Item - Paladin T16 Holy 4P Bonus Reduces the cooldown of Divine Favor by 60 (up from 45)sec. While Divine Favor is active, Mastery is increased by 4,500 (up from 1,500).

  9. #709
    I just posted some info for Protection in another thread (link) but wanted to make sure we got the message across to Holy as well.

    We’ve gotten a lot of feedback from the Holy community that there’s too much of a difference between fights where you’re allowed to stand in melee and fights where you cannot. Seal of Insight is a large part of that problem. By removing the mana gains from SoI, we can balance Holy’s mana appropriately. We don’t think the overall impact will be too large, but just to be sure, we’re planning to buff Divine Plea up to 15% for slightly stronger mana-on-demand.

    As I mentioned in the other thread, the Glyph of the Battle Healer changes are largely due to how exceedingly powerful the glyph has become for Protection tanks. We do think it will still be useful in some situations, but we also recognize that many Paladins simply like the idea of healing through melee attacks, and that’s something we may explore more fully in the future. If we do, however, it will most likely not be through a glyph.

    In regards to the more general concerns about Holy throughput, we do still plan to buff Holy elsewhere to make up for the changes to Eternal Flame. We’re still discussing exactly what those changes will be (which is why you haven’t seen them yet), but to give a bit of insight, we’re not very likely to buff spells like Beacon of Light or Holy Radiance. When we do make changes, they’ll probably be to spells like Flash of Light, Divine Light, Light of Dawn, and Guardian of Ancient Kings.

    Again, please keep in mind that the PTR is a development environment, which quite often means you’ll see incomplete parts of overall changes as work continues. We really appreciate constructive and precise feedback about your concerns – letting us know exactly what is or isn’t working is a lot more effective than hyperbole. Thanks!
    Source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...69?page=25#499

    Keep the faith guys!

  10. #710
    Buffing a set bonus that aready to me equals more overhealing, not to mention its laughable in comparison to others, is not a "buff" in anyones regards. As previously mentioned here, buffing random mechanics to a class like daybreak or a set bonus won't make the class viable for hc progression. As much as I doubt also that blizz would leave holy in a bad place like most believe, I do have issues with playing something extremely weak to something else i could be playing. Puts me in a hard place to re roll spec or even toon. Its unjustified still, and its taking far too long for them to do so

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by Elovan View Post
    Set bonuses got buffed, about time.

    Item - Paladin T16 Holy 2P Bonus Infusion of Light also increases the healing done by Holy Light, Divine Light, and Holy Radiance by 25% (up from 10%).
    Item - Paladin T16 Holy 4P Bonus Reduces the cooldown of Divine Favor by 60 (up from 45)sec. While Divine Favor is active, Mastery is increased by 4,500 (up from 1,500).
    Both favourable changes though I'm not sure how useful the 2pc is still. 25% on HR every 12 seconds is nice but still feels a little pointless. The 4pc buff should make cooldown stackers happy and comes with a needed mastery buff.

    The blue posts implies a LoD buff and a Guardian cooldown reduction. DL and FoL being lumped in there is strange. Both underused spells, particularly FoL. Unless they are going to change the mechanic of the spells by making them do something in addition to what they already do, I don't see the sense in buffing them.

    Buffs are buffs, and much needed, but the thought seems to be straight throughput buffs that don't address the issue of what we're losing. We'll see.

    Edit: Divine Plea at 15%. Whatever, I'll take it. Better than having to melee for mana.
    Last edited by Pasture; 2013-07-09 at 11:18 PM.

  12. #712
    So lore just posted this
    I just posted some info for Protection in another thread (link) but wanted to make sure we got the message across to Holy as well.

    We’ve gotten a lot of feedback from the Holy community that there’s too much of a difference between fights where you’re allowed to stand in melee and fights where you cannot. Seal of Insight is a large part of that problem. By removing the mana gains from SoI, we can balance Holy’s mana appropriately. We don’t think the overall impact will be too large, but just to be sure, we’re planning to buff Divine Plea up to 15% for slightly stronger mana-on-demand.

    As I mentioned in the other thread, the Glyph of the Battle Healer changes are largely due to how exceedingly powerful the glyph has become for Protection tanks. We do think it will still be useful in some situations, but we also recognize that many Paladins simply like the idea of healing through melee attacks, and that’s something we may explore more fully in the future. If we do, however, it will most likely not be through a glyph.

    In regards to the more general concerns about Holy throughput, we do still plan to buff Holy elsewhere to make up for the changes to Eternal Flame. We’re still discussing exactly what those changes will be (which is why you haven’t seen them yet), but to give a bit of insight, we’re not very likely to buff spells like Beacon of Light or Holy Radiance. When we do make changes, they’ll probably be to spells like Flash of Light, Divine Light, Light of Dawn, and Guardian of Ancient Kings.

    Again, please keep in mind that the PTR is a development environment, which quite often means you’ll see incomplete parts of overall changes as work continues. We really appreciate constructive and precise feedback about your concerns – letting us know exactly what is or isn’t working is a lot more effective than hyperbole. Thanks!
    FoL and DL getting buffed means nothing at all. LoD will either still be worse than EF or it will be better if it gets better than EF, expect to see a 5% throughput buff over current ptr. The only thing that could really change the tables are a GoAK buff, if they turned it into something that works like AG it could potentially be 20% of our healing done (very unlikely to see such a big buff).
    Last edited by Pacer; 2013-07-09 at 11:23 PM.

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    Both favourable changes though I'm not sure how useful the 2pc is still. 25% on HR every 12 seconds is nice but still feels a little pointless. The 4pc buff should make cooldown stackers happy and comes with a needed mastery buff.
    the 2pc in my experience is quite weak compared to monks simply using chi wave or discs who probably already pre casting smites to instantly heal up minimal damage. in large aoe situations like magera itl mean quicker bursts of strong aoe. I don't think its a fitting bonus, and should be changed to something a bit more useful

  14. #714
    Since neither of the other two posted it properly:
    Originally Posted by Lore
    I just posted some info for Protection in another thread (link) but wanted to make sure we got the message across to Holy as well.

    We’ve gotten a lot of feedback from the Holy community that there’s too much of a difference between fights where you’re allowed to stand in melee and fights where you cannot. Seal of Insight is a large part of that problem. By removing the mana gains from SoI, we can balance Holy’s mana appropriately. We don’t think the overall impact will be too large, but just to be sure, we’re planning to buff Divine Plea up to 15% for slightly stronger mana-on-demand.

    As I mentioned in the other thread, the Glyph of the Battle Healer changes are largely due to how exceedingly powerful the glyph has become for Protection tanks. We do think it will still be useful in some situations, but we also recognize that many Paladins simply like the idea of healing through melee attacks, and that’s something we may explore more fully in the future. If we do, however, it will most likely not be through a glyph.

    In regards to the more general concerns about Holy throughput, we do still plan to buff Holy elsewhere to make up for the changes to Eternal Flame. We’re still discussing exactly what those changes will be (which is why you haven’t seen them yet), but to give a bit of insight, we’re not very likely to buff spells like Beacon of Light or Holy Radiance. When we do make changes, they’ll probably be to spells like Flash of Light, Divine Light, Light of Dawn, and Guardian of Ancient Kings.

    Again, please keep in mind that the PTR is a development environment, which quite often means you’ll see incomplete parts of overall changes as work continues. We really appreciate constructive and precise feedback about your concerns – letting us know exactly what is or isn’t working is a lot more effective than hyperbole. Thanks! (Source)
    Last edited by Xs; 2013-07-09 at 11:31 PM.

  15. #715
    <snip>

    seal of insight nerf.

    Infracted. Please refrain from posting memes. ~Fhi
    Last edited by Fhi; 2013-07-09 at 11:37 PM.
    <CATASTROPHE> Sanktora

  16. #716
    The Lightbringer nightfalls's Avatar
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    Here's what I put on official forums regarding Regen changes:

    Buffing Divine Plea from 12% to 15% will give a 375 MP5 (~485 with the 553 CD reduction trinket) increase overall, since with the removal of the reduced healing effect we can assume it will be used on cooldown. However Seal of Insight on melee fights has been giving roughly 800-1800 MP5 (Lei Shen/Ra-den respectively).

    This is also ignoring fight mechanics. Having a more "on-demand" regen tool allows us to deal with "burn" and "regen" phases much better than a 2 minute cooldown, which will lead to us delaying it if we are mana capped during a regen phase.

    Set Bonuses:

    The 25% increase for 2pc has to be multiplied by your mastery to give the actual effective increase, which will only end up being around a 12% bonus. Buffing 3 spells that always overheal is not really a buff. Also just IMO, Divine Light belongs in the CD reduction trinket not in a 4 set that will just decouple all of our CD's.

    Spells:

    Flash of Light and Divine Light changes for raid as mentioned will pretty much do jack all of shit. The only changes that will make a difference (read: actual changes) are to Light of Dawn and Guardian. Guardian just needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, I like Pacer's idea of making it like AG. Light of Dawn should get a decent throughput buff, and also hit 15 targets in a 25m raid to be on par with Healing Rain, since that's the new baseline standard set by the resto shamans.

  17. #717
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Since neither of the other two posted it properly:
    Originally Posted by Lore
    I just posted some info for Protection in another thread (link) but wanted to make sure we got the message across to Holy as well.

    We’ve gotten a lot of feedback from the Holy community that there’s too much of a difference between fights where you’re allowed to stand in melee and fights where you cannot. Seal of Insight is a large part of that problem. By removing the mana gains from SoI, we can balance Holy’s mana appropriately. We don’t think the overall impact will be too large, but just to be sure, we’re planning to buff Divine Plea up to 15% for slightly stronger mana-on-demand.

    As I mentioned in the other thread, the Glyph of the Battle Healer changes are largely due to how exceedingly powerful the glyph has become for Protection tanks. We do think it will still be useful in some situations, but we also recognize that many Paladins simply like the idea of healing through melee attacks, and that’s something we may explore more fully in the future. If we do, however, it will most likely not be through a glyph.

    In regards to the more general concerns about Holy throughput, we do still plan to buff Holy elsewhere to make up for the changes to Eternal Flame. We’re still discussing exactly what those changes will be (which is why you haven’t seen them yet), but to give a bit of insight, we’re not very likely to buff spells like Beacon of Light or Holy Radiance. When we do make changes, they’ll probably be to spells like Flash of Light, Divine Light, Light of Dawn, and Guardian of Ancient Kings.

    Again, please keep in mind that the PTR is a development environment, which quite often means you’ll see incomplete parts of overall changes as work continues. We really appreciate constructive and precise feedback about your concerns – letting us know exactly what is or isn’t working is a lot more effective than hyperbole. Thanks! (Source)
    I'm so glad that they are deciding to buff flash of light and divine light, I really want to use selfless healer now that they will most likely heal for even more! (not). Guardian needed a buff, and it should have been buffed awhile ago, and buffing Light of Dawn will be nice, but it will still be bad. They just need to give EF to holy paladins baseline, because a HP spender has no place in the talent tree IMO.

  18. #718
    Quote Originally Posted by IDespicable View Post
    I'm so glad that they are deciding to buff flash of light and divine light, I really want to use selfless healer now that they will most likely heal for even more! (not). Guardian needed a buff, and it should have been buffed awhile ago, and buffing Light of Dawn will be nice, but it will still be bad. They just need to give EF to holy paladins baseline, because a HP spender has no place in the talent tree IMO.
    I think they could do some interesting things with Guardian, just hope we don't get the same treatment Ret got.
    I'd like to see them get their teeth into Light of Dawn to change it and make it something we can potentially use to make up for the massive nerf to EF, along with making Divine Light something that sees more use. Still not holding my breath that we'll come out the other side of this in a good state though.

  19. #719
    What if guardian was made 3 minute and would allow similar behavior to Spirit Shell by copying single target heals @ 25% to the entire raid, that'd be pretty neat
    Pure LF Healers, Ranged DPS for Warlords! - Top 3 Night 25HC EU. - Big dumb mistweaver blog - YouTube

    That's like Eminem saying he's black cause he drew a brown outline on his mirror in the morning, everyone else sees him as white but he seems himself as black and weird example but same crazy concept of rather avoid lol.

  20. #720
    Stood in the Fire Kyuuseishu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    What if guardian was made 3 minute and would allow similar behavior to Spirit Shell by copying single target heals @ 25% to the entire raid, that'd be pretty neat
    Well considering both the other specs have a 3 minute guardian it makes no sense to keep holy's as a 5, I'm undecided on if it needs a mechanic change but ofc they will decide, I'm just happy the set bonuses got changed to something more...good.

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